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Old 01-22-2006, 01:26 PM   #1
Dsravenoaks
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Newbie needs advice from experts on TV-Internet Sat systems

Hi, I follow this forum often and need some advice about which way to go with satellite TV and Internet access. We have a 36 ft 5 th wheel with a bat wing tv antenna now. I have been looking at TV dishes, both roof mounts and tripod setups. I have explored both the DISH and DIRECT TV system a bit. I have also look at DIRECaccess for satellite internet access. I use the internet alot and as we are soon to go full time, I am interested in purchasing the RIGHT system the first time. I obviously am not interested in on the fly access as with a motor home. Could someone give me their humble opinion or answers about some of these questions:

1.Which system is best, DISH OR DIRECT TV?

2.Do either offer internet access?

3.Can I run my old Winegard and a roof mount sat dish on the same wire to the reciever or do you have to run a seperate wire?

4. If you do have to run a seperate wire, how do you run it to a slide section where the reciever is?

5. Is there any advantages to a tripod dish mount over a roof mount to offset the room taken up for storage?

6. Is there a system where I could get TV and Internet access thru sat on the same dish? If there is, are these roof mounts or tripod types?

7. Is there a big difference between adjusting a TV dish and an internet access dish to the sat?

8. Should I spring for a double system TV and Internet now if it is available or is it too early to try to embrace both in one system?

9. How hard is it to put in a roof mount? I am somewhat handy? I have built a 3 car garage and rewired my own house?

10. If you wanted to "low ball" it price wise for TV sat only, Internet Access only, or a combo system, at is the best way to go?

11. What books or links would give me good advice? Everytime I contact a vendor, all they want to do is...sell, sell, sell.\

Any help would be appreciated and I can be contacted directly at
Dsravenoaks@aol.com THANKS IN ADVANCE
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:25 PM   #2
Motor31
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Re: Newbie needs advice from experts on TV-Internet Sat syst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsravenoaks
Hi, I follow this forum often and need some advice about which way to go with satellite TV and Internet access. We have a 36 ft 5 th wheel with a bat wing tv antenna now. I have been looking at TV dishes, both roof mounts and tripod setups. I have explored both the DISH and DIRECT TV system a bit. I have also look at DIRECaccess for satellite internet access. I use the internet alot and as we are soon to go full time, I am interested in purchasing the RIGHT system the first time. I obviously am not interested in on the fly access as with a motor home. Could someone give me their humble opinion or answers about some of these questions:

1.Which system is best, DISH OR DIRECT TV?
That depends on your taste in TV stations. Your best bet is to look at the channel line up and see which you prefer. I do have to tell you that if you try to use a dish for both TV and satelite you will have to stay with Directv regular (non HDTV) as the chanels are all on one bird (satelite). If you go with Dish your antenna will have to track 2 birds and will break the internet connection.

[qoute]2.Do either offer internet access?[/quote]
Neither offer internet access as that requires a different type of equipment.
Quote:

3.Can I run my old Winegard and a roof mount sat dish on the same wire to the reciever or do you have to run a seperate wire?
Internet satelite requires 2 wires. One to receive and one to transmit. The satelites are not the same as those used for TV either. If you do go with a TV arm on your internet dish it will require a seperate arm and receiver head for the TV reception. This means the dish will have to receive 2 signals, one of which will be off to the side of the center of the dish. You will end up fine tuning one signal over the other.
Quote:

4. If you do have to run a seperate wire, how do you run it to a slide section where the reciever is?
That depends on your rig. You can run it down the same area as your current TV coax, open a new hole in the roof for it, drape the coax down the side or ladder and into the rig or any number of ways to get the coax where you need it. Not knowing the design of your rig, it's impossible to give you a specific answer.
Quote:

5. Is there any advantages to a tripod dish mount over a roof mount to offset the room taken up for storage?
Absolutely. The tripod system enables you to get a signal when your rig is blocked by trees or other obstructions. With 50' to 100' of coax cable you can set up the dish and get a clear path to the satelite. I am doing that right now for both TV and internet on my system as the rig is covered by trees in it's parking spot. I have a small opening at the side and rear of my trailer that is open to the southern sky in just the right spot. My roof mount TV dish is totally blocked. I use a secondary dish on a small tripod for TV when the roof is blocked.
Quote:
6. Is there a system where I could get TV and Internet access thru sat on the same dish? If there is, are these roof mounts or tripod types?
The answer is a qualified yes. On a Direcway system you can get what is called a "bird on a wire". That is a second receiver head on a second arm that is held off to the side of the main head mount to get the secondary (TV) signal from a different satelite. Frankly I do not install those as I view it as a decent but not really good solution. The arm is set on a fixed distance to get the reflected signal from the dish. As you angle the dish for the internet transmission purposes the skew (angle) changes the relationship on the angle of the tv arm. It will not be optimized as you travel since the skew changes with East to West travel. It's far easier to explain or show you with a drawing or in person, sigh.
Quote:
7. Is there a big difference between adjusting a TV dish and an internet access dish to the sat?
Yes and no. On a Diretv system the dish does not have to be rotated left or right to adjust the skew. It remains in a vertical alignment. You will still have to turn the dish left or right to find the signal and adjust it vertically but do not have to tilt (rotate) the dish to fine tune it. On a Dish TV system the dish does rotate for the signal. The dish on an internet system also rotates. Easiest way to explain this is to do this. Hold you hand out in front of you palm forward. to find the signal you pivot your body left and right and raise or lower your palm using your arm. Once the signal is found you must then rotate the palm left or right at the wrist holding your arm and body still to fine tune the signal or enable the transmitter to line up with the satelite on the internet system. This is the skew I was talking about. It's also been my experiance that the TV signal is not as sensitive to find and lock in as the internet signal is.
Quote:
8. Should I spring for a double system TV and Internet now if it is available or is it too early to try to embrace both in one system?
In my opinion it is best to have 2 systems. One dedicated to TV and the other dedicated to internet. This means you can change TV satelites on Dish Network and not lose the internet and traveling does not marginalize the TV signal due to increasing or decreasing skew on the internet dish. The TV systems are rather inexpensive especially if you already have a winegard antenna on the rig. You can set up the TV system all by yourself buying the receiver equipment for Directv at Best Buy, or an entire package including the antenna as well. For internet you will need an installer to commission the system at the very least. [/quote]

9. How hard is it to put in a roof mount? I am somewhat handy? I have built a 3 car garage and rewired my own house?[/quote]

For TV it is not hard. I installed a roof mount wineguard auto seek system on my earlier rig. The big problem is having a coax lead in the roof already or deciding how you want the coax to get into the inside of the rig. It's far easier to wire a RV while it is being built than after. If you already have a batwing you may also be able to remove it, then mount the satelite antenna in the same spot using a single coax. It depends on where that batwing is on the roof. The satelite dish should be in a position to be level when you're parked. The batwing doesn't really care about level and is sometimes mounted to the side of the roof too far for a satelite location. You could put a signal splitter in the line going to the batwing on the roof then set the dish and tie into the batwing coax that way. It all depends onj how your rig is already set up and if it is was wired for satelite already. If you use an auto seek you will need 12 volt power at the antena as well. Frankly it may just be simpler to use a ground mount antena depending our your RV.

Quote:
10. If you wanted to "low ball" it price wise for TV sat only, Internet Access only, or a combo system, at is the best way to go?
The least expensive internet satelite system is Direcway. You have multiple options for TV and I really don't know rates for them as it depends on what you want for chanels etc. in the packages. Keep in mind that you will need a subscription to each service so the monthly costs will have to be combined.
Quote:
11. What books or links would give me good advice? Everytime I contact a vendor, all they want to do is...sell, sell, sell.\
You can try looking at the escapees forums (www.escapees.com). There are several forums there that have discussed and cussed each topic. As to the TV, visit the main web sites for Directv and Dish Network. Look them over and see which chanel line up you like. Keep in mind that Dish does use more than one bird and the antena must be able to move between them as you change chanels.

Look at all 3 main choices for satelite internet as well. Cost and some equipment are really the only differences between them other than a manual point vs an auto seek. All get you to the same internet and all are good systems. Like everything else in the RV world there are coompromises, look and see whch best fits what you want to do. FWIW the RV satelite internet is really only cost effective if you are a full timer IMO. There are cheaper options for a "stick house" unless there is no service where your fixed home is located.
Quote:
Any help would be appreciated and I can be contacted directly at
Dsravenoaks@aol.com THANKS IN ADVANCE
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:31 PM   #3
Motor31
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Sorry about the formatting and mispellings in the above post. I was not aware there is no edit function on this area of the bbs.

I hope it answered some of your questions. If it raised more, feel free to ask. Yes I do install Direcway but I do not trash the competition. If you buy from me, fine. If you buy from someone else that's fine too as I do not do this as a source of income. I have done so and do recomend other installers that may be in your area if I'm not conveniently located.
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:01 PM   #4
rotaxman
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Glad

Hey Mike,

Glad to see your back missed reading your posts.
As always good camping
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:44 PM   #5
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Mike: you sure nailed it. Good post. You answered all the questions in detail. Not sure I had the patience.
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:19 PM   #6
MDTdriver
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Internet and tv

Mike you did a good post.
I do have a comment on the Bird on a wire, I did get this from Joe with my D-Way dish and have no problems with Direcrtv on sat 101 on the same dish. We feel it is a better signal than our King Dome and in a heavy rain 2 weeks ago no loss of signal what so every. We are very happy with internet & tv on same dish.
I just setup internet and then turn on tv no problems. It does work very well for us.

Larry & Kathy plus Mojo
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:41 AM   #7
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I too have The Bird on a wire and have had no problem with the TV (DirecTV) from coast to coast, Mi to FL. I get the best TV signal I have ever had and don't have to set up that second tripod. I have only hit 2 places in 2 years that I could not get though the trees to get both the Net and TV on the same dish. I was too lazy to move to another sight.

As mike said the only drawback is you can't do HDTV with the Bird on a Wire.

With Direcway you can use the bow to mount the "Bird on a Wire" with almost all DirecTV birds, you also can with a couple of the Dish birds I hear but that is few and fare in-between.

My Dway set up was $1600 including tripod and training. I think it will cost at lest $150. more now with the new DW7000 modem. and the cost per month is $59.95 and for $10 more you can get more speed. See the Direcway page for exact speeds and prices.

You have a second choice for internet with Star Band but to get to the same end I believe their monthly cost is $99. This is also available on Tripod.

If you go Direcway or Star Band on auto roof mount you are looking at the DataStome or Monostate system (spelling ?) coming in around $5000 to $6000 installed and $99 a month.

Mike has covered the rest so help this additional info helps.
Any corrections on this infor are welcome.
Rick
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