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Old 07-28-2007, 08:24 AM   #1
ponch
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gm brake controller

Has anyone had the chance to hook up one of the new integrated controllers, from GM, to a "suite" that has the new Kodiac disc brakes?

Well I guess it wouldn't make any difference which brakes as long as they were disc's.

Will they work????? or do you still have to install a aftermarket brake controller.

Ponch
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Old 07-28-2007, 09:48 AM   #2
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I think your best bet would be to check with Kodiak to see what the compatability is. If they say it's a no go they can tell you what after market controller IS good with their equipment.
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:45 AM   #3
dz06
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Actually it is the Electric Over Hydraulic Actuator with which IBC must be compatible. I have not yet found an acceptable error free solution for towing my 2007 Mobile Suites with my Ford 450. Hope you don't have the same problem with GM.


I've posted before and read other posts about the "Trailer Disconnect" problems with some electric over hydraulic disc brake setups.

Usually someone suggests that it is easy to replace Ford IBC w/aftermarket brake controller. I have spoken with Ford, Carlisle, Dexter, Tekonsha, BrakeSmart, MaxBrake and others. They all agree that Ford does not support electric over hydraulic disc brake systems. They also agree that you cannot just splice in or replace the Ford IBC. You will generate errors on the Ford. Some say that the errors can be reset; others say the errors cannot be reset.

Ford so far says the IBC must be disconnected, but do not say how to do that successfully. Ford implies that a special cable must be used, but local dealer does not have part number or instructions on replacement.

Several brake controller companies said to keep the Ford IBC installed and splice in their system only cutting the blue wire that actually drives the brake actuator in the trailer from the IBC and instead connect blue wire to aftermarket brake controller. You will still get an error.

The trailer I have uses the latest Hydrastar Carlisle actuator that Carlisle admits has compatibility problems, but only w/2008 Ford IBC. Dextor says their actuator ($700 appr) will work fine with 2008 Ford IBC, but my trailer manufacturer says they will void warranty on brake system if I change to Dexter.

Basically I bought a 2008 Ford F450 and a trailer w/electric over hydraulic disc brakes that cannot be made to work without getting some kind of error message. I asked sales of both Ford and trailer manufacturer if I would be ok before placing order for either. Problem occurred 1st tow after picking up trailer in Indiana which is 2500 miles from Morgan Hill, Ca where I purchased F450.

If I have to live with an error, which sucks, I'll just stick with the one "trailer Disconnect" that happens every so often. The braking is very smooth and powerful. Important Note: Ford will not say if it is a dangerous to tow when this false disconnect error is occurring. They of course only state that they have not verified operation w/electric over hydraulic disc brakes. See single miniscule (small type) foot note (not in IBC descriptive section) to that effect in sales brochure. In owner's manual there is a much bigger warning, but by the time you see that you've already bought the vehicle.

I am amazed that Ford just doesn't seem to care that they have a great system that doesn't work without errors for electric over hydraulic disc brakes. Seems like most buying a 2008 F450 will want to tow big. That usually means electric over hydraulic disc brakes.

By the way the Dexter unit that works with Ford is having problems with the GM IBC.

If you know of a sure fix that will allow Tekonsha P3 or BrakeSmart controller to replace 2008 Ford IBC without generating other errors or problems please post your solution. Include wiring details for dummies like myself.
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Old 07-28-2007, 12:32 PM   #4
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Ponch, I thought that you determined you had electric brakes. Maybe you are considering upgrading to discs. If you do upgrade to Kodiaks, what actuator will you use?

I contacted Carlisle, the manufacturer of the current controller DT is using for disc brakes and they said not to use the GM integrated controller with their actuators.

The GM integrated controller is a modulated (pulsed) device that is designed for electric brakes. That method is detrimental to disc brake actuators. Why GM (or Ford) has not recognized the need for a disc brake controller is simply amazing to me.

The Carlisle rep said they were working on it but no solution at hand. Lools like you will need a 3rd party controller. At same time I contacted supplier for Jordan controller and their new controller is not yet available either. I think I am going to give the Hensley TruControl a try. It has a money-back guarantee if you don't like it.

Carlisle does have a kit for the Ford integrated controller that will work with their, and only their, actuator.

You have been towing with the new truck. How is the controller handling the MS braking up to this point?

Rodeworthy
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Old 07-28-2007, 01:42 PM   #5
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The Trailer Disconnect is not only limited to 08 Ford's only. I have the same issue with my 07 F350. The "Trailer Disconnect alarm" comes in mostly when I have to get on the brakes pretty hard, but it don't seem to affect the braking of the trailer. I don't pay any attention to it, like I said, it really don't affect the braking function. Maybe someone will come up with a fix some day.
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Old 07-28-2007, 03:52 PM   #6
dz06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGordon
The Trailer Disconnect is not only limited to 08 Ford's only. I have the same issue with my 07 F350. The "Trailer Disconnect alarm" comes in mostly when I have to get on the brakes pretty hard, but it don't seem to affect the braking of the trailer. I don't pay any attention to it, like I said, it really don't affect the braking function. Maybe someone will come up with a fix some day.
Carlisle has a solution for 2007 and earlier year Ford models with TowCommand. It's called FORD / PRODIGY ADAPTOR MODULE CARLISLE MODEL HBA-CAM for sale on their web site http://www.carlisleinternetsales.com for $85. Check under Hydrastar product.

The HBA-CAM does not work for 2008 Fords.
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Old 07-28-2007, 06:39 PM   #7
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dz06
I was worried about the IBC in my F350 and the Dexter actuator in my 2006 MS working together. An email to Dexter provoked this response:

"On 3/20/06, Belisle, Duane <DBelisle@dexteraxle.com > wrote:
J. Charles Thompson,
The DEXTER AXLE Electric over Hydraulic actuation (units made after March 2005) is compatible with the Ford Integrated Brake Controller. There are some units made by other manufactures (and some earlier Dexter Units) that are not compatible. For this reason Ford chose to not to endorse some units and not others so they published what they did in their manual. They most likely also did this for liability reasons.

Duane Belisle
Dexter Axle Product Engineer
574-296-7334
574-296-7320 Fax
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Old 07-28-2007, 07:17 PM   #8
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Long note by DZ06 is "EXACTLY" what I have found. I have given up trying to make it work and am seriously considering trading the Ford for something without an IBC.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:37 AM   #9
rdunk
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For Ford IBC........

I went thru this integrated brake controller problem with the Ford controller, in my 2005 F350. I was getting disc brakes on the Suites. Ford said their IBC worked only with electric brakes. So, that meant I needed an aftermarket controller anyway. Yes, Dexter did redesign their brake actuator, and yes, Ford's IBC did (does) work with the Dexter brake actuator.

Yes, is was very difficult to find anyone who could explain how to install an aftermarket brake controller over the Ford IBC. I finally did determine how it was to be done, and did it on both the 2005 F350, and the current 2006 F350. Very simple, at least for my trucks. First, the instrument cluster module has to be reprogrammed by a Ford Service Tech to a "no trailer brake controller existing" condition. This step deactivates completely the Ford IBC. There are two connectors attached to the back of the Ford IBC. One connector is for the Ford IBC, and the other is for an aftermarket controller cable connection that must be removed from the IBC, for use with the aftermarket controller. Also there is a mating pigtail connector for aftermarket controllers, that is either furnished with your truck, or can be obtained from a Ford parts place. This pigtail connector is generally furnished with the trucks that do not have the IBC installed

I chose the Brakesmart controller, because I believe sensing the hydraulic brake pressure of the tow vehicle, for application of braking on the 5er by the controller, is the very best technology, for safely braking in all situations.

Any specific Ford IBC related questions in this subject area, feel free to PM me. I am no expert, but I have been thru this just a little.

Hope this helps! Won't help Ponch much though, since he has one of those off brand GMC trucks. Actually, the fix for aftermarket controller for the "Jimmy" may be similar to the Ford!

Good luck all.
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Old 07-29-2007, 07:11 AM   #10
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roadworthy

Yes I am considering upgrading to the Kodiac disc brakes.

If I make the change I'll use the Brake Smart controler.

Ponch
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Old 07-29-2007, 11:33 AM   #11
dz06
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rdunk:

Thanks for the excellent advise. I never considered that Ford sold SuperDuty without TowCommand. Seems like they must have a way as you stated to inform system there is no IBC.

I'll take your post to my Ford dealer.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:31 AM   #12
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Carlisle approves Integr. Brake Controller in 2007 GM trucks

Ponch - Please take note!

I received a reply today from Carlisle indicating they have now approved the use of the Integrated Brake Controller (IBC) in 2007 GM trucks for use with their HydraStar HBA-16 actuator.

Earlier I had reported this controller was not approved and Carlisle was recommending a 3rd-party controller be used. Apparently the fact that the GM controller ships in a disabled state affected Carlisle's original test. They were unaware of this condition. The GM IBC is activated by connecting a supplied wiring harness to appropriate terminals.

Although Carlisle could not extend this approval to 2008 GM IBC I am interpretting the above information to be valid for '08 as well since there is no change in the controllers between 2007.5 and 2008 models. They are essentially the same truck.

My second query to Carlisle was prompted by the PDF attached to Mikey's query about the Ford IBC for the same purpose. Thanks Mikey.

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Old 08-06-2007, 10:50 AM   #13
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Thanks Roadworthy.

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Old 08-06-2007, 04:56 PM   #14
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Ponch,
check your email.
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