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Old 01-08-2019, 08:22 AM   #21
rorr1821
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Pin weight and towing weight

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Originally Posted by tow n slow View Post
Hello all,
I am anxious about my RAM 2500 payload capacity of @ 2100lbs. I have been considered buying a 5er, with a GVWR @ 13000lbs which is well within my towing capacity of @ 17000lbs.

BUT most 30-32 ft 5er's have a pin weight of 1900-2300lbs which does not leave me any room for cargo in the tow truck.

I am considering upgrading my 2018 RAM 2500 SRW 4X4 to a 1 ton SRW drive.

My question is to you long timer's 5th wheel pullers, is 4X4 necessary?

We DON'T plan on any primitive camping. Just State parks, private camp sites for longer stays and maybe a one time trip up the Alaska Hwy in the summer.



I know I'm going to take a bath on selling or trading my 2018. But if I do upgrade I save myself some money by just getting a 2 wheel drive?

Your Honest feedback is appreciated!
I had a DRV in 2016 which is a very heavy 5th wheel compared to some other brands. I went through the same process currently facing you. In my case I decided on a Ram Dually 4x4 diesel. When you go to a 4x4 you lose a little in payload capacity. Ram has a great series of charts on the web which show all the towing stats for each configured P/U.

However, in your case as I see it you have several choices assuming you do not plan on upgrading to a heavier 5th wheel. Based on what you said you do not need a 4x4. If you go to a one ton single wheel you better off to pay an additional $1200 and get a dually. If you plan on a trailer that has a loaded weight of only 13,000 lbs a 3/4ton should work but you will have no room to expand. If you go to the spec sheets on the Ram for example a 3/4 ton crew with a 6.4L V8 with 4.10 ratio rear your payload is 3480 lbs and towing is 15810.

Another though is gas vs diesel. You only need diesel if you are going to tow more than 16,000. I have had both. Diesel fuel is more cost, the up charge for Diesel engine is around 3000 or 4000 more, maintenance in more money, and etc. Now I am speaking about Ram 6.4L gas engine. I do not know about brands.

Options to consider is the puck system offered by Ram for 5th wheel, and air leveling system. You can get after market but factory install is better. Rear axle ratio is critical. Do you homework. When you shopping you tell the salesman what you want. DO NOT RELY ON AN SALESMAN TO BE ABLE TO CONFIGURE THE VEHICLE YOU NEED.

You need to be sure about your weights before you make any decision. These 5th wheel manufactures are devious about the true weight. When you add water, propane, food, and cloths the weigh builds up quickly. The 5th wheel mechanism you put in the bed of the P/U weights around 250 lbs. Passengers in the tow vehicle add weight. It just goes on and on.

My opinion is that anyone towing a 5th wheel is much better off with a dually if for no other reason than safety. You get better stopping and control. Also if you go with a dually then diesel should be considered because that is the only way to increase you towing capacity.

Also note that a one ton will ride rough when unloaded as compared to 3/4 ton. The bottom line there are trade off’s which ever way you go.

Good luck
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:53 AM   #22
pterrydactyl
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LDT= Light Duty Truck
MDT=Medium Duty Truck
HDT=Heavy Duty Truck

Just to muddy the waters a bit..the “T” has also been used to mean “Transmission”.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:42 PM   #23
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snip ....
Another though is gas vs diesel. You only need diesel if you are going to tow more than 16,000. I have had both. Diesel fuel is more cost, the up charge for Diesel engine is around 3000 or 4000 more, maintenance in more money, and etc. Now I am speaking about Ram 6.4L gas engine. I do not know about brands.

Snip....

Also note that a one ton will ride rough when unloaded as compared to 3/4 ton. The bottom line there are trade off’s which ever way you go.

Good luck

I really think the comfortable cut off point for diesel/gas is more like 12,00# to 13,000#. I still see maintenance as a wash Ram CTD is rated for 15,000 mile oil changes.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:43 PM   #24
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Regarding has or diesel I like this guys channel on YouTube.
Might check out this video.

https://youtu.be/F-g2PBa4_LQ
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:31 AM   #25
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I'm inclined to go along with Russ where the weight/diesel is involved. Usually the diesel is more like an 8K upgrade , and no matter the engine, I'm changing oil at the 5K mark. Synthetic or dinosaur, no matter. I just like to know my 75K investment keeps on ticking.
I'd prefer to leave the brand bashing to the diesel forums. We owned dozens over the years for our workers and only learned that all three have great trucks at very high prices. Buy what you like, what fits your future needs and what is in your budget. And get Momma's approval. She'll be driving it also.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:06 AM   #26
rorr1821
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Read the find print

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Originally Posted by Rhagfo View Post
I really think the comfortable cut off point for diesel/gas is more like 12,00# to 13,000#. I still see maintenance as a wash Ram CTD is rated for 15,000 mile oil changes.
Not exactly true, 15,000 miles or 6 months which ever comes first, If you use bio-diesel it is 12,000 miles. So not a wash. In the diesel you have fuel filter change requirements also.

6.4L gas is 1 year or 12,000 miles or more often under severe conditions as defined in the manual. Less oil required. No regular fuel filter requirements. In the long run maintenance cost less.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:14 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhagfo View Post
I really think the comfortable cut off point for diesel/gas is more like 12,00# to 13,000#. I still see maintenance as a wash Ram CTD is rated for 15,000 mile oil changes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorr1821 View Post
Not exactly true, 15,000 miles or 6 months which ever comes first, If you use bio-diesel it is 12,000 miles. So not a wash. In the diesel you have fuel filter change requirements also.

6.4L gas is 1 year or 12,000 miles or more often under severe conditions as defined in the manual. Less oil required. No regular fuel filter requirements. In the long run maintenance cost less.

Well during warranty period that is true, but I will run Dino oil and change every six months for about $50 (I also run Oil through Blackstone Labs $2. Many state the cost to be astronomical, yes a bit higher, but not a deal killer for me.

Your old 2001 Laramie pulled well at about 300 hp, new one has 385 and a bunch of torque and a very nice auto for DW, (Me too).
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:27 AM   #28
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I personally wouldn't have a truck without it, but I live in CO. We did a trip last March and watched the weather like a hawk and there wasn't any snow in the forecast. Last day of the trip we woke up to an inch of snow in central WY. It snowed for about 4 hrs and our trip on I-80 was scary! We switched to 4wd when we left the campground and drove less the 5mph for the next 150 miles. Semis were spinning their tires and stopping, we saw a bumper pull trailer on it's side and countless cars and trucks in the ditch. We never spun our wheels or felt out of control the whole dive. So if you travel where it snows, don't leave home without it!
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:37 PM   #29
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I personally wouldn't have a truck without it, but I live in CO. We did a trip last March and watched the weather like a hawk and there wasn't any snow in the forecast. Last day of the trip we woke up to an inch of snow in central WY. It snowed for about 4 hrs and our trip on I-80 was scary! We switched to 4wd when we left the campground and drove less the 5mph for the next 150 miles. Semis were spinning their tires and stopping, we saw a bumper pull trailer on it's side and countless cars and trucks in the ditch. We never spun our wheels or felt out of control the whole dive. So if you travel where it snows, don't leave home without it!

Must have been really wet snow!

We got caught coming home from the coast one February, 5er in tow, dropped into 4X4 and did about 45 over the coast range.


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Old 01-25-2019, 06:53 PM   #30
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4x2 or 4x4 really depends on where you live and WHEN & WHERE you plan to travel. Is 4x4 necessary, no. Is it nice to have just in case, yes. But it doesn't solve all your problems either. It just gets you further from the road before you get stuck...

You can buy a 4x2 with an electronic locking rear axle, in essence giving you the same number of powered tires as an unlocked 4x4. The key is tires. Highway tires will leave you stranded on wet grass, even in a 4x4, especially if there is a slight grade. Say 1 degree uphill.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:44 AM   #31
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If you promise always always to drive on pavement and never ever to put any of your wheels off payment then no you don't need 4WD. The only time I have ever been stuck was in my '91 F350 dually 2WD. Besides, 4WD gives you bragging rights when you belly up to the bar.
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:51 PM   #32
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Yep, what Friz said! Just buy 4WD and be done with it.
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:45 AM   #33
Hanr3
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Yep, what Friz said! Just buy 4WD and be done with it.
Realize, 4x4 will drop the carrying capacity and towing capacity of the truck about 400-600 pounds. That's 600 pounds not available for pin weight.
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:16 PM   #34
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I have more to add to this thread.
I have a 2wdr with locking rear axle. I purchased the truck with Hankook highway tires on it. I would get stuck in my yard if the grass was wet or the ground was soft. Two weeks ago I bought Goodyear Wrangler A/T Adventurer with Kevlar. It rained off/on for a week prior to our week long vacation, and it was raining the day we left for vacation. Backed the truck up to the camper, hooked up, had a buddy on speed dial just in-case. Locked the rear axle and slide it into gear. I crawled out of the back yard without a problem. Left ruts in the soft ground. 4x4 isn't necessary, but the right tires are...
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:05 PM   #35
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Tires can make a big difference...same like snow tires in winter.
Anyway my experience after a couple years with a 4x4 truck, we went looking for a newer truck. I found a 4x2 truck I liked at the right price. I thought about it and realized the whole time I had the 4x4 I never put it in 4 wheel drive.
Since having the new, (to me) 4x2 I haven't had an issue going anywhere. I've taken it onto BLM land and down may dirt roads without issue. Consider how many class a,c and b rv's you see in those places and none are 4x4.
With that said, I always check before going. There are obviously places you can't go. I just haven't found many.


One other thing, we live in VA where we only have a sissy winter...lol. 20 years earlier we lived in N.E. and there was real winter. I had 4x4 vehicles back then with good reason. These days we head for the south west avoiding even the sissy winter.
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Old 06-06-2019, 04:21 PM   #36
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If you promise always always to drive on pavement and never ever to put any of your wheels off payment then no you don't need 4WD. The only time I have ever been stuck was in my '91 F350 dually 2WD. Besides, 4WD gives you bragging rights when you belly up to the bar.
You're funny!

There's a YouTube video on the Long Long Honeymoon channel where they drove up a gravel road to take some pretty pictures in the summer and had turn turn around in the level grassy area to get out and got stuck on dry, green grass. Just the juice in the grass was enough to stop them dead in their 2wd truck.

Since I've been towing a 5th wheel (3 years and two different trucks), I've probably used 4x4 five or six times in similar situations.

In one case; over the holidays I was towing NE towards Seattle past Boise and the hwy was so rough it shook my 7pin connector loose. I pulled off the first exit as the hwy was like the Indy 500 and there was almost no shoulder. There was no place to even get off the road but a gravel lot in front of a chained off industrial yard. It was covered in ice and snow and the outside temp was in the 20s (F). I got my trailer hitch reconnected and, when getting out, dropped both front tires into a hole where the pavement meets the gravel. The lot was iced over so there's no way I could have seen it and the ice was thick enough I could have jumped on it and not even known it was there. I busted off my front air dam, and got stuck HARD. I had to put it in 4x4 low but I got out, maneuvered around, and back out on the hwy after I determined only cosmetic damage had been done.

I could have stopped on the hwy, with four feet of rig still IN the hwy due to the narrow shoulder, put on my blinkers and called roadside service because I was scared to be out on the hwy in black rain at ten pm with cars whizzing by at eighty. I could have stopped when I dropped my axle in the hole and called roadside service and got a tow. I could sell my truck and fiver, get a Prius, and live in a senior living apt complex with a balcony and my Chihuahua and drive my Prius real slow to the senior center to play dominoes with the other old ladies. Instead I just did what I had to do. Had I not had 4x4 I'd have been stuck out there for a long time.

It sucked to ding up my truck. It would have sucked worse to be stuck there for three to six hours. It would suck worse to not go places because I was a scaredy cat.


Peace,
Kate
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:40 AM   #37
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Thank you for the entertaining story. I heard a long time ago: 4 wheel drive gets used about 2% of the time, but adds almost 5% to the costs of a truck. But during that 2% of time you need it, its worth every penny paid.

Can you get by without it? Absolutely. Is it worth 5% more money to use less than 2% of the time? For me, absolutely.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:20 PM   #38
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Used to work oilfield service in Wyoming for 10 years--mostly used LTDs for service calls to drill rigs. 4x4 not needed for simple reason--if you can't get there, don't go.... But after some years, company changed to 4x4 pickups, and then we didn't have the excuse "I can't get there." And, if you try hard enough, 4x4 will usually allow you to get stuck farther off the road and in deeper drifts...
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