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Old 11-08-2021, 11:42 PM   #1
mike314
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Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 3
Can you tow over GVWR

Ok I don't own either the truck or the 5er but hear me out. I am looking at a Ford F350 XLT DRW Crew Cab 7.3L V8 176" WB 4x2 4:30 ratio gas powered truck. On Ford's site, it shows that configuration as follows:


Curb weight 6,963 lbs
Max. Front GAWR 5,250 lbs

Max. Rear GAWR 10,300 lbs
MAX GCWR 28,000 lbs

MAX GVWR 20,500 lbs


Now I'm looking at a 44 foot Toy Hauler with these stats:
Dry Weight: 12595 lbs
GVWR: 21000 lbs
Payload: 8405 lbs


Yes, I see the GVWR of the 5er is larger than the trucks Max 5th wheel towing but in theory if I do not overload the truck, and one should never, I can pull this off correct. Say the toy hauler gets loaded to 18,000 lbs the above truck should be able to handle it, again granted you don't overload.


Obviously, the 5er can be loaded that high but you should never tow at max GVWR anyway, but can something like this work safely?


Thanks all in advance
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Old 11-09-2021, 06:33 AM   #2
Notanlines
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Mike, I have a few thought on your selection. Any of the 'big three' gas engines are going to absolutely pull their guts out hauling 28,000 pounds. Yes, I realize that all the diesels take up about 6-700 pounds of payload, but you will be desperate for the torque when the nut-cutting time comes.
What might I ask are you planning on putting in the rear of the toy hauler?
Where did you get the numbers for your truck, off the Ford website or off the door pillar sticker? If it is off the Ford site these numbers are probably bogus as a football bat. Truck manufacturers make things sound very rosy on their sites. The real world figures are always different.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:00 PM   #3
mike314
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Yea numbers come off the Ford site, not the door sticker. Toy Hauler will just have a light weight golf cart. I'm leaning towards gas because of better payload numbers and the fact I don't plan on traveling super far, but yes point taken on the deisels.
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Old 11-15-2021, 12:46 PM   #4
Cummins12V98
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FORGET the "PAYLOAD" BS numbers. ONLY reason the 14k GVWR is there is to keep the truck in Class 3 non Commercial for Insurance and Licensing purposes.

Your RAWR is over 10k, mine is 9,750# SAE rated with my 6k pin maxing that out. I tow a 24k DRV and I am at or within all ratings but the phony 14k number. Ask your self WHY is the F450 pickup in the same class and GVWR number???

Get a dRW Diesel, forget the 14k and buy whatever RV you want and be happy. All you need to do to be "LEGAG" is have the proper tonnage to cover the weight you have on your six tires.

Listen to those that done this for many years and FORGET the gasser as you will get so tired of crawling up the passes and have a tight spinchter going down them with out an exhaust brake. Also the Gasser will be screaming at you on every grade. Diesel will be a quiet controlled towing experience in all conditions.

Do it right do it once.

If you want to talk the best truck we can do that also.
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:16 PM   #5
freestyle freddy
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I've been towing an 18.5K lb. 5th wheel fulltime for 12 years, always with a Ford DRW diesel, currently an F350, 6.7 diesel, 3.55 rear end ratio. I get 9-10 mpg towing, & it pulls with ease up & down mountain roads. On the flats, it runs at 1500 rpm at 60mph. I would never consider a gasser for towing that much weight.
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Old 11-15-2021, 10:11 PM   #6
OlympicFox
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I learned a long time ago that truck manufacturers publish the highest capacity ratings they can get away with because those numbers sell trucks. Unfortunately, those ratings are not as simple as the ads for 1/2 trucks suggest.



At the other end of the equation, the RV makers usually minimize certain specs because they've learned that sells RVs. For example, RVs almost always include a number which infers its length, however the actual length is typically 3 feet or so longer. It's easier to sell the wife on the idea of a 34' 5th wheel than a 37 footer. Another number that can be misleading is the pin box weight (or tongue), especially on something like a toy hauler with a high load capacity. My experience is that the pin box will tip the scales at around 20% on a properly loaded 5th wheel (or 14% on a travel trailer).



Spec'ing a tow vehicle such that something like the engine is downgraded to improve the weight capacity specs is a short trip to an unpleasant tow experience.



7.3L gas specs. 430 HP at 5,500 RPM, 475 ft lbs torque at 4,000 RPM. Frankly I wouldn't want to have to listen to the gasser hitting 4,000 plus RPM in traffic just to get rolling or turning an extra 300 at steady 60 MPH cruise, or the 3+ gears it would have to drop to pull a grade. The diesel generally cruises at peak torque RPM or less, so when it hits a grade, the engine is in peak torque, or the torque actually improves as the engine slows a bit. OTOH, the gasser cruises at around 50% of peak torque RPM, so when more torque is needed, it MUST come from the "torque multiplier" - the transmission. Since the gasser makes less than half the torque of my Cummins while the RPM is twice as high, the gasser must use low gears far and away more often to get the job done. It has the horse power to go up the hill OK, but it will have to scream to do it.



I'd been towing our 11# 5th wheel with our 2010 Ram 3500 6.7 Cummins for years. Piece of cake and very pleasant, even in the mountains. Then we bought an Excel 5th wheel that weighed several thousand more, but was still within spec for the Ram. Fine on the flats, but oh-so slow in the mountains. I don't like puttering in the slow lane at 30-35 in 2nd gear.



FWIW, two years ago we traded the 2010 Ram for the new Gen 4.5 2019 Ram. The dealer gave me 55% of what I paid new with 160K miles on the clock. My hunch is that the value of the gas 4x2 wouldn't come close to that kind of value down the road.
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Old 11-16-2021, 12:15 PM   #7
Dave A
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What I got

I thought I would give you some actual figures from a scale ticket for our truck to give you something for comparison.

We have a F350 dually King Ranch with the 6.7 and a 44 ft toy hauler (triple axel, generator, three AC's so it's nicely equipped and the toy weighs in at 2,000 lbs and we've got about 50 gallons of water in the 5th wheel and about 50 gallons of diesel. I can tell you I weigh about 200 lbs and dear wife's is a secret........

Steering Axel 5380
Drive Axel 8280
Trailer Axels 17160
Gross Weight 30820

We're under the GCWR of the truck by 1080 lbs.

This is about what we would average going down the road.

Hope this helps!
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Old 11-16-2021, 12:22 PM   #8
Ealgebound
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike314 View Post
Ok I don't own either the truck or the 5er but hear me out. I am looking at a Ford F350 XLT DRW Crew Cab 7.3L V8 176" WB 4x2 4:30 ratio gas powered truck. On Ford's site, it shows that configuration as follows:


Curb weight 6,963 lbs
Max. Front GAWR 5,250 lbs

Max. Rear GAWR 10,300 lbs
MAX GCWR 28,000 lbs

MAX GVWR 20,500 lbs


Now I'm looking at a 44 foot Toy Hauler with these stats:
Dry Weight: 12595 lbs
GVWR: 21000 lbs
Payload: 8405 lbs


Yes, I see the GVWR of the 5er is larger than the trucks Max 5th wheel towing but in theory if I do not overload the truck, and one should never, I can pull this off correct. Say the toy hauler gets loaded to 18,000 lbs the above truck should be able to handle it, again granted you don't overload.


Obviously, the 5er can be loaded that high but you should never tow at max GVWR anyway, but can something like this work safely?


Thanks all in advance
Not enough info listed here but on first pass and using the base formula of 20% of your GVWR for pin weight your rear axle looks adequate. But that is only one area to look at and opinions about gas vs diesels is certainly a significant discussion with a trailer that big. And will start about 5 pages of opinions, much of which is searchable and long been discussed numerous times. This link might help:
https://www.fifthwheelmagazine.com/c...fth-wheel.aspx
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