Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2010, 06:13 PM   #1
RodeWorthy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Woodstock, Ontario
Posts: 370
No hydraulics - what to do?

We just pulled into a park, lowered the landing gear and took the truck off the pin. Now we have no action from the hydraulic pump for any of the circuits. Our landing gear is down but stabilizers are all up, the slides are in.

The pump runs, but runs freely. No pressure building. This is true for all circuits in both directions. The landing gear is extended more than normal at this site but not fully extended. Our nose is somewhat high at this point. The hydraulic fluid in the tank was at just over half full level. I added a half quart more to see if it was starving for oil. That did not work.

Does anyone know if there is a coupling (shear pin?) between the pump electric motor and the pump?

Has anyone experienced this and, if so, what was the solution? Last year I had a similar thing with the landing gear almost fully extended and adding a lot of oil finally got that resolved but then the oil overflowed the tank when the jacks and slides were retracted.

Trying to decide if this is a mechanical thing or an oil level problem.

We are in a bit of a bind here -- no hydraulics pretty much puts us out of commission. Its going to be a fun night.

Any ideas?
__________________

__________________
RodeWorthy

'07 Mobile Suites 36RS3 #3910
Mor/ryde IS, Trailersaver TS3 hitch
Level-Up with Remote Control
4 x 135W Solar Panels, Outback Controller, 4 x 6V batteries, Xantrex Inverter/Charger
'08 Chevy 3500 dually Duramax/Allison
RodeWorthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 07:35 PM   #2
sylvain&lynn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: val des monts quebec
Posts: 28
i dont know i will be much help have you check the three knob on your manifold they have to be fully open conter clock wise and what about the kill switch if it is not on only the jack will work hope thing work out for you

sylvain
__________________

sylvain&lynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 07:41 PM   #3
sylvain&lynn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: val des monts quebec
Posts: 28
you call lippert i dont know t if they will answer the phone number is 866-524-7821


sylvain
sylvain&lynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 07:46 PM   #4
sylvain&lynn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: val des monts quebec
Posts: 28
you call lippert i dont know t if they will answer the phone number is 866-524-7821


sylvain
sylvain&lynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 10:14 PM   #5
billr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 857
Don,

Sorry to hear of your troubles with the Hyd. A few things to consider;

-if the hyd level was low, was there any obvious leaks anywhere or was the level consistent with the front jacks being extended?

-Not sure if there is a shear point between motor and pump, might be worth a try pulling it apart. Or try the manual drive with a drill.

-It does sound like the pump or the manifold valves is the issue. Is it possible that one of the valves is stuck directing the flow to bypass?

Lippert would be my next call for sure. No help at night for you though.

Hope you get a quick fix very soon.

Bill
__________________
Bill and Joan
4 Collie pups
05 M/S 38RL3 #2046
01 Volvo VNL770
05 Smart Passion Loaded piggyback
https://picasaweb.google.com/billandjoan
Weigh-It Portable RV Scales
https://www.weighitrv.com
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 12:16 PM   #6
Motor31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,130
Do NOT take the pump apart. If the rig is under 5 years old that will void the warranty on the pump and they are not cheap. Lippert warranty's the hydraulic system other than hoses for 5 years. They are VERY good about honoring the warranty too.

The pump is a direct drive from the motor to the impeller. When you say it spins freely I am assuming you mean it runs when you push the button. If that is the case then the motor is not the problem.

I'd check to see if all the knobs are turned out counter clockwise. If that is not the issue you may have a big air bubble in the system if the fluid level was low. I maintain fluid level about 1/2 inch above the center line of the pump reservoir when the legs are down and the slides all out. If there is a bubble you may have to crack a line to the slide, at the end of the line by the slide and run the pump to see if you can push it out of the line. If there is no fluid movement at all the pump impeller may be gone and there is no user fix for that.

I'd say you are really stuck if the legs won't retract as well. Fortunately Lippert is (was in my case) good about sending techs to the trailer location to fix the issue. Do check for the knob position and if you do crack the line for air removal do it on a slide, not the jack lines to keep the trailer from collapsing nose down. You might want to position your truck to hold the nose off of the ground should you lose pressure containment on the front legs. It's a royal PITA to raise the trailer from nose on the ground to level, I know as I had to do it when the ram was leaking.

It's possible you may have a bit of crud stuck in the manifold valve for the slide. Try closing the knobs (clockwise) for the slides and see if the pump sounds different or the slides or jacks move. Pulling a valve is not hard but you will make a mess if there is any pressure in the system for the valve. You do not want to pull the jack valves at all unless the trailer is securely braced to prevent movement.
__________________
Mike Nancy and the fuzzies
Fulltiming since June 2004
Volvo 660 MH tow vehicle
2005 MS 38RL
2007 Saturn Ion "toad"
2010 Gold Wing "piggyback"
Motor31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 07:11 PM   #7
RodeWorthy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Woodstock, Ontario
Posts: 370
Failed Hydraulic - Motor runs - no hydraulic flow

Thanks to all for advice on this problem. I have been busy trying to resolve the issue which persists.

Status:
The manifold valves remain fully open. This has not changed;

There are no external leaks;

The 'kill switch' has no affect on the hydraulics in my trailer. The hydraulic dual relay is connected directly to the battery and all hydraulic circuits derive power from that source. This may be different on other Suites;

The hydraulic oil level was not low. With the landing gear extended with nose high the tank was more than half full;

There is a coupling between the electric motor and the impeller shaft. More on that below;

Good advice to call Lippert. They were very helpful and even allowed me to perform some tests on the system;

Mike is right. If you are under warranty do not do anything to your pump system without contacting Lippert. If you do any unauthorized work your warranty will be voided;

There are several things that could cause the problem I am having:

Coupling broken between electric motor and impeller shaft. Inspected and not my problem.

Shuttle valve stuck. Inspected and not my problem.

Pickup tube in tank fallen off or leaking allowing air to enter. Could not inspect this but the tank was supercharged with oil to ensure there was no chance of air entrainment. This oil will have to be removed after problem is resolved or there will be a major overflow of the tank.

No change in the problem with full hydraulic tank.

Defective impeller. I suspect this might be my problem with the other possibilites ruled out.

Pressure relief valve stuck open. This might also be a problem but I do not have a full understanding of the hydraulic implementation. Opening a line to free flow as Mike has suggested and running the pump to see if it displaces oil might rule out or identify the impeller problem. This could be messy. No permission to try this step yet. I will also request permission to check the manifold relief valves. I am going by the book.

We are stranded but semi-functional. Living in these units with the slides in and not level is no picnic but it could be worse. We are in a great place and will not allow this setback to spoil our enjoyment of Brown County State Park near Nashville, IN.

It is my luck this problem occurred at beginning of a long weekend. We have had some communication that a pump may be made available as early as Monday. That would be nice.

My plan B is to force the landing gear into retracted position to get us mobile again. We are headed for DRV factory from here anyway. This will be tedious and messy. Not the preferred method.

I am fortunate that I can get the truck back on the hitch. At that point the landing gear is the only issue to get us mobile. I believe I can do this with sufficient blocking and raising the air hitch to its upper limit and lowering it by releasing air from the hitch with the valve or cylinder opened to free flow. This will need to be done several times to get the cylinders retracted. As I said this is not the desireable solution to mobility. I have located a source of blocking if necessary.

Happy Easter everyone!
__________________
RodeWorthy

'07 Mobile Suites 36RS3 #3910
Mor/ryde IS, Trailersaver TS3 hitch
Level-Up with Remote Control
4 x 135W Solar Panels, Outback Controller, 4 x 6V batteries, Xantrex Inverter/Charger
'08 Chevy 3500 dually Duramax/Allison
RodeWorthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 07:34 AM   #8
JOHN EVANS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 114
Im not sure how far you are from the factory or Lippert, If you call Lippert they should dispatch their mobil repair guy to you.or call Paul Cross at interstate rv repair he could walk u thru Paul khows all about lippert systems pauls number is 260-463-8100
JOHN EVANS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 10:25 AM   #9
Motor31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,130
If you "break" a line to allow manual retraction of the legs it will definitely be spraying fluid in the basement area. The other problem is you may end up putting a bubble in the line that will not hold the legs in a retracted position. Make sure you do not allow the leg to drop even a tiny bit while the line fitting is loose or you will get a bubble. Having them extend while driving down the road is ungood. That was the final symptom of a leaking main jack ram that I had.

I ended up cobbling together a means of holding the rams up. I used some braided metal line (like the old stainless steel laundry line), large worm drive hose clamps and small screw style links similar to carabiners. All of that was at the main hardware stores.

The wire I looped through the holes where the foot attaches to the leg so that it was a closed loop I used screw crimping line clamps to close the loop. The hose clamps I used around the fixed portion of the leg that does not move. The screw style open link I also attached with the hose clamps. I retracted the legs the hooked the wire loop into the screw link and closed the link. That held the ram up in travel.

Another problem could come up and that would be the slides coming open in travel. I have no idea how you would hold them closed if the hydraulics were compromised in that system.

Before you head out, does Lippert have anyone they can send to get you fixed up? Both of the above issues can be very bad in transit.
__________________
Mike Nancy and the fuzzies
Fulltiming since June 2004
Volvo 660 MH tow vehicle
2005 MS 38RL
2007 Saturn Ion "toad"
2010 Gold Wing "piggyback"
Motor31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 10:26 AM   #10
RodeWorthy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Woodstock, Ontario
Posts: 370
Help is on the way

Update report.
This Good Friday is a major holiday where I come from so I was surprised to receive a call from Lippert this morning. I had emailed detailed information to them earlier and provided my assessment of the problem. They have agreed and are making arrangements to get me a new pump as soon as possible.

My existing pump apparently is an older style that they abandoned about the time my trailer was built (figures). They will provide the current Parker pump and tank which has an increased capacity. The existing manifold will bolt onto this pump without modification.

After further thought about this problem I am convinced the impeller shaft is broken in my pump. When the electric motor was removed the stub of the shaft that fits into the electric motor turned much too freely. The impeller is immersed in oil and should provide at least slight resistance to rotation.

This is a mute point now since a new pump will be delivered. I have to say I am once again very impressed with the response of another vendor for the components on our trailer. Lippert is looking after this in an appropriate way and they have been very helpful and friendly. I have done my part to try and assess the problem and contibute towards a solution. I remained calm despite the situation we were in. I think this is very important. Most people will try to help you if they know their efforts are appreciated.

We are having a beautiful day here in a wonderful State Park. We have RV friends in the area and will visit them today. Life is good. Problems just test us now and again. Like all the others, and there have been many on this trip, this one will pass too.

Thanks to all for your concern and suggestions. It is so wonderful to have this forum for information and support.
__________________
RodeWorthy

'07 Mobile Suites 36RS3 #3910
Mor/ryde IS, Trailersaver TS3 hitch
Level-Up with Remote Control
4 x 135W Solar Panels, Outback Controller, 4 x 6V batteries, Xantrex Inverter/Charger
'08 Chevy 3500 dually Duramax/Allison
RodeWorthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 10:29 AM   #11
Motor31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,130
Glad they are sending a new pump to ya. I have to say that Lippert has been VERY good about support and I can't say enough good stuff about them for that.
__________________
Mike Nancy and the fuzzies
Fulltiming since June 2004
Volvo 660 MH tow vehicle
2005 MS 38RL
2007 Saturn Ion "toad"
2010 Gold Wing "piggyback"
Motor31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 10:34 AM   #12
Motor31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,130
I remembered I posted pictures of my leg retention device (tm pending) :) in this thread. I doubt my written description was all that good so these pics should clear up what I did to hold the rams up in transit. It's cheap (like me) and it works. I left it all in place in case I spring another leak in the rams.

http://www.5thwheelforums.com/forums...=hydraulic+ram
__________________
Mike Nancy and the fuzzies
Fulltiming since June 2004
Volvo 660 MH tow vehicle
2005 MS 38RL
2007 Saturn Ion "toad"
2010 Gold Wing "piggyback"
Motor31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 12:18 PM   #13
billr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 857
Great work Don on the trouble shooting and dealing with Lippert. Glad they are looking after ya. Always happens on a weekend and usually on a Holiday weekend! Murphy is alive and well!

I can tell you are not letting this get to you and making the best of a bad deal. Always the best approach, although not always easy to do. Kudos to you and Stella!

I will be contacting you when we have problems with the system! ha

Bill
__________________
Bill and Joan
4 Collie pups
05 M/S 38RL3 #2046
01 Volvo VNL770
05 Smart Passion Loaded piggyback
https://picasaweb.google.com/billandjoan
Weigh-It Portable RV Scales
https://www.weighitrv.com
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 01:06 AM   #14
RodeWorthy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Woodstock, Ontario
Posts: 370
Hydraulic pump failure resolved with new assembly

I am pleased to report we have successfully replaced our failed hydraulic pump and we are no longer crippled and stranded at our campsite.

On this first business day after the Holiday Weekend Lippert came through big time by building and testing a complete pump, tank, manifold and fittings assembly to replace our failed system by 12 PM.

A big effort was made to get this assembly to me in record time and required the effort of a team of people including a representative of Hydac International who was traveling to Paducah, KY and dropped the assembly off to me by 6PM. I was kept informed of the progress and through an agreement with Lippert I volunteered to install the assembly myself. I had the failed assembly out of the unit by the time the new one arrived and with the help of my neighbors here in the campground we had the new one installed promptly. The new Parker pump runs smoothly and there is not yet any sign of air entrapment.

Tom Peck at DRV was kept informed about the situation and he was in communication with Lippert throughout the process.

The trailer will be delivered to DRV tomorrow and Lippert will inspect the system while it is there.

A great effort to get us out of our difficult situation. We were 6 days living in the unit with the slides in and the nose in excess of 18" above level. This unit looks huge in here tonight.

A big thank you to all involved to help us out of this predicament.

Many thanks also to the posters on the forum who provided support as well. Special thanks to Mike (Motor31) for his detailed information. Mike, your description of your leaking landing gear situation is very close to what a friend of mine is experiencing and the information is useful to help diagnose his problems too. I have passed it along. Good stuff.
__________________
RodeWorthy

'07 Mobile Suites 36RS3 #3910
Mor/ryde IS, Trailersaver TS3 hitch
Level-Up with Remote Control
4 x 135W Solar Panels, Outback Controller, 4 x 6V batteries, Xantrex Inverter/Charger
'08 Chevy 3500 dually Duramax/Allison
RodeWorthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 10:51 AM   #15
Motor31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,130
Glad you are mobile again and happy to help.

Safe travels.

If anyone wants to see just how freaking far you have to lift the front end of the trailer to replace a front ram, check out this web site.

http://tinkytravels.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html

We used all of our "leveling lumber" and the full height of my HDT and still had to dig down about 2 feet to clear the ram assembly. OSHA would not have approved but it got the job done. We used the truck to "jack" the trailer up too since the ram wouldn't lift, but it would hold for a while. I dumped the air from the truck "bags" or suspension. Then put as much wood that would fit under the pin and lifted the back of the truck. Repeat until we ran out of wood. We did use the trailer brakes and BFR's (big freakin rocks) to chock the wheels of the trailer. If I had a regular PU we'd have been up a crick other than trying to use a small bottle jack (6 ton) to lift the trailer.

The pics were taken by our friend and put on their blog. Lippert sent a tech from Portland OR. to my location on the northern end of the Washington peninsula to fix the rig. The two of us got it done in about 4 hours. Lippert folks are simply fantastic!

Yep we have been to some really unlevel parks so we carry plenty of leveling material.
__________________
Mike Nancy and the fuzzies
Fulltiming since June 2004
Volvo 660 MH tow vehicle
2005 MS 38RL
2007 Saturn Ion "toad"
2010 Gold Wing "piggyback"
Motor31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 12:10 PM   #16
billr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 857
Good news Don! Good work!!

Bill
__________________
Bill and Joan
4 Collie pups
05 M/S 38RL3 #2046
01 Volvo VNL770
05 Smart Passion Loaded piggyback
https://picasaweb.google.com/billandjoan
Weigh-It Portable RV Scales
https://www.weighitrv.com
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 01:53 PM   #17
terry and jo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Retired Okie now in Colorado
Posts: 531
Mike,

Glad to see things are looking up for you. Keep us posted on anything else new that you learn. I think all of us would appreciate learing new things.

Terry
__________________
Terry and Jo
2010 Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 #5332 - 2008 Ford F450
Terry's Smugmug Site
terry and jo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 02:54 PM   #18
southwoods46
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
hydrauliccs

Don and Stella: Glad to see that you are back on the road. Hope all goes well at DRV plant and you have no more glitches. You have had enough for one winter! Safe travels homeward!
__________________
BCS
southwoods46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 07:09 PM   #19
Diesel-Gypsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Qc. Canada
Posts: 206
Don, you have the patience of Jobe!
Living in your Mobilesuite for 5 days with-out slide-outs or a level trailer would have left me livid.

I am very glad to hear your tribulations for now are over.
You definately are becoming the Jedii Master of DRV owner issues!

Look forward to seeing you both at the Rally.

Drive safe.

Rick
__________________
2007 Carriage ROYALS INTERNATIONAL MONARCH 38
no truck yet…but looking
Diesel-Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2010, 09:36 AM   #20
Motor31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,130
Rick,

He is but the padiwan to the master! Many of us have had to use the force to make repairs to our poorly constructed death stars......

:D

__________________

__________________
Mike Nancy and the fuzzies
Fulltiming since June 2004
Volvo 660 MH tow vehicle
2005 MS 38RL
2007 Saturn Ion "toad"
2010 Gold Wing "piggyback"
Motor31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×