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10-18-2015, 10:00 PM
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#21
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Evans, GA
Posts: 18
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I got lazy and changed my mind and went portable and glad I did. Three time this past season we had bad power in our assigned site so I just took the portable on a search for good power before moving the rig. As far as security I lock it to the post with a bike lock cable.
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11-02-2015, 07:50 PM
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#22
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 23
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Under NO circumstances would I install a bypass switch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimGnitecki
This instalaltion sounds not that bad, but I don't like the idea of cutting the underbelly cover, and I don't like the idea that I lose power to EVERYTHING if the pedestal we happen to plug into has a fault, even though the fault might be of no concern to, for example, lights or other non-sensitive equipment.
Is there any REASONABLY effective way to secure the portable unit? (The provided locking tab seems pretty flimsy, and would likely deter only an amateur. Any large hand cutter would go through that tab like butter I would think.
Jim G
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If you install a bypass switch in, why install the unit at all? It shuts off for a reason. Lights are wired and run though your power unit. Fry that and your out some bucks. Or if you forget to flip the switch back to "protection mode" and you could lose THOUSANDS of DOLLARS! Under NO circumstances would I install a bypass switch.
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11-03-2015, 09:32 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Retired Okie now in Colorado
Posts: 531
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Maverick,
If one has a separate generator like a Honda or a Yamaha, in order for the generator to get power to the coach, one has to bypass the system. We have the hardwired unit and I like to "exercise" the generator every month or so, and if I wish to do so, I have to bypass.
There is something about a conflict between the generator and the PI system, but I can't remember exactly what the phrase is for that.
Terry
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Terry and Jo
2010 Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 #5332 - 2008 Ford F450
Terry's Smugmug Site
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11-03-2015, 09:54 AM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry and jo
Maverick,
If one has a separate generator like a Honda or a Yamaha, in order for the generator to get power to the coach, one has to bypass the system. We have the hardwired unit and I like to "exercise" the generator every month or so, and if I wish to do so, I have to bypass.
There is something about a conflict between the generator and the PI system, but I can't remember exactly what the phrase is for that.
Terry
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It may be that the PI system detects the lack of a proper ground with a generator providing the input power. Remember, the generator is NOT actually grounded unless you run a grounding wire from it into the ground!
The portable generator manufacturers skirt this issue by telling you in your user manual to "consult a qualified electrician".
Jim G
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11-03-2015, 10:14 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 857
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No issues running a Honda 2000 or 3000 with our hardwired Surge Gaurd. Unit.
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11-03-2015, 10:54 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Retired Okie now in Colorado
Posts: 531
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Still don't remember what the phrase was, but the ground is probably what it was. I think it is because our Honda has a "floating ground." Your comment about that reminded me that on other forums, I've read where they recommended getting a "bonded plug" to plug into an outlet on the generator that solves that problem.
I found this on another forum that was for boaters (sailors?), where one obviously can't install a ground for the generator: "Cheapest fix is to make a neutral/ground bonding plug by running a wire from the ground to the neutral in a new three prong plug. Mark the plug so you will remember what it is. plug this plug into one of your outlets on the generator and the surge protector will see it as grounded."
Here's a link to an article on it.
Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding
Terry
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Terry and Jo
2010 Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 #5332 - 2008 Ford F450
Terry's Smugmug Site
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11-03-2015, 01:10 PM
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#27
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry and jo
Still don't remember what the phrase was, but the ground is probably what it was. I think it is because our Honda has a "floating ground." Your comment about that reminded me that on other forums, I've read where they recommended getting a "bonded plug" to plug into an outlet on the generator that solves that problem.
I found this on another forum that was for boaters (sailors?), where one obviously can't install a ground for the generator: "Cheapest fix is to make a neutral/ground bonding plug by running a wire from the ground to the neutral in a new three prong plug. Mark the plug so you will remember what it is. plug this plug into one of your outlets on the generator and the surge protector will see it as grounded."
Here's a link to an article on it.
Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding
Terry
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That makes sense, Terry, but introduces another "problem".
All the guides to wiring an RV make a big deal about NOT connecting the neutral bus in the loadcenter (i.e. the electrical panel on the RV) to the ground bus in the loadcenter, as you would normally do in a home. Connecting the neutral and ground via the special plug, at the generator, achieves the same "prohibited" connection, just at a different point in the overall circuit.
I am no electrician, but I THINK maybe the reason for this prohibition on connecting the neutral and ground is that if you get a ground fault in the RV (leakage of current too small to flip off the circuit breaker, but a leakage nevertheless), the separation of the ground from the neutral prevents YOU from becoming the "ground" when you step into or out of the RV, with one foot on the ground and one on the RV step. Again, I am not at all sure about this, but simply remember vividly the strong cautions to not make that neutral to ground connection.
Jim G
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11-04-2015, 08:18 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Retired Okie now in Colorado
Posts: 531
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That could all be very true, Jim. I'm not an electrician either. However, I am glad that with all this said, I can turn "on" the bypass switch of the PI system's remote and still use the generator for power if necessary. I'm not sure whether any of the portable systems that are to look for all the power problems would allow that, but I guess one could just not use the portable.
Terry
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Terry and Jo
2010 Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 #5332 - 2008 Ford F450
Terry's Smugmug Site
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11-04-2015, 08:43 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 857
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For portable units they make a lock that goes over the plugs and a cable can be added. That way you can't unplug it. Takes a regular paddle lock.
I still prefer hard wired for a lot of reasons. But each to thier own s they say.
Ref the grounding concerns on portable gennys. Literally a millions of portable gennys are used every day as they are for RVs, race haulers, farms, etc etc. and never hear of these concerns causing problems. I'm sure there are basis for this issue but not so much.
I have used gennys for 20 yrs and all good. I may just be lucky though ����
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11-04-2015, 08:50 AM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billr
. . .
Ref the grounding concerns on portable gennys. Literally a millions of portable gennys are used every day as they are for RVs, race haulers, farms, etc etc. and never hear of these concerns causing problems. I'm sure there are basis for this issue but not so much.
I have used gennys for 20 yrs and all good. I may just be lucky though ����
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I don't think you are particularly lucky! I think it is just that that particular type of incident is pretty rare, as is being struck by lightning, being the victim of a homicide, etc. But, electrical codes HAVE to consider, and try to prevent, even unlikely incidents, which is why the "rule" is there.
Jim G
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11-04-2015, 11:43 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 857
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Wow. I'm still feeling lucky Ha. So that's what those pesky Elec codes are all about. Lol
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11-04-2015, 01:50 PM
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#32
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billr
Wow. I'm still feeling lucky Ha. So that's what those pesky Elec codes are all about. Lol
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Interestingly, compliance with the electrical codes is, i'm almost certain, voluntary rather than required, for RVs. It IS mandatory for normal (permanent) "residences" and businesses, but RVs are NOT legally permanent residences, so they do not apparently have to comply.
Of course, most manufacturers comply anyway for purposes of reducing the obvious legal liabilities if they do not and someone gets injured or killed, and any licensed electrician will refuse to work on anything that does not meet code, for the same liability reasons.
When a home, apartment, or business is built, each step of the construction requires a separate inspection by a city or county inspector. Apparently, this is not required for RVs.
Now the RV manufacturers will tell you that they comply with RVIA standards, and that is evidenced by the RVIA sticker on your RV. But, the RVIA standards are industry association standards, not legal standards, and most importantly, they apparently do NOT include individual inspection of each individual RV built. This is why you can receive a brand new RV from a manufacturer on which some electrical defects, some plumbing defects, and some basic construction defects exist at the time of delivery.
Also, did you know that any RV that already has an RVIA sticker will still need to have more safety stuff added in order to be legally importable into Canada? (not just to visit of course, but to import "permanently"). This is because the Canadians view the RVIA standards as inadequate.
Jim G
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11-04-2015, 07:52 PM
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#33
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Site Team
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Where we park it
Posts: 2,838
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What happened with the Domani?
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2016 Tiffin 40 QBH
2015 38RSSA, traded
2005 TK3 #1869, 10 yrs of memories,
2017 F450 KR--one more Ford is it
2009 F450 4x4-died; 2010 F450-retired
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11-04-2015, 09:45 PM
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#34
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut60
What happened with the Domani?
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Couldn't get a good enough deal on it. It had some problems, and the dealership wouldn't correct them at sensible cost.
Jim G
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