Lippert Frames

[Hobo]

This is from the MS Yahoo forum for those of you that do not subscribe to it.

"I'm going to post something I found on another site, the fellow that
posted it explained it well. The very same thing has happened to us
this past week and I just want everyone to check your spring hangers.
This sounds like it could very well be a problem with Lippert frames.

As posted on Rvtimes.com by Jocko:
"We had a massive failure with a Lippert frame. Our unit is a 2005
Doubletree Mobile Suite. 36 RE3. The rear spring bracket tore out of
the frame on the left-hand side. This allowed the rear axle to swing
back and all the weight was shifted to the front axle. The center and
front bracket were pulled back about 10 degrees and it would only
have been a matter of time before they tore loose and both axles
would have swung under the rig. Not a good thing! Probably a roll
over!
When we checked the other brackets, cracks were found at the welds
and in the sides of the hangers. We were a thousand miles from home
base and were able to get emergency repairs made to make it home. We
are still waiting to find out what the final fix is! We would like to
make plans for the summer.
I totally agree with Barb, If you have a Lippert frame, please for
yours and the safety of others please have the spring brackets and
welds checked.
I wish I could include pictures."

We also have a 2005 36RE3 and as I said this happened to us this
week. I think it's time to get NHTSA involved."

Lippert is not standing behind their frame saying it has only a 2 yr warranty. They also stated it was most likely caused by hitting a pot hole. Now keep in mind this is the rear axle that dose not take the blunt of any trauma!
We do know for a fact that at lest 2 frames have had this problem so every one needs to keep alert.

[47hook]

Glad nobody was hurt.

Is it just me, or does it look like there is a lot of internal rust in the frame, shown in the 2nd picture? Where has the unit been used? Near the ocean, lots of water?

[JPHarris]

Originally Posted by 47hook

Glad nobody was hurt.

Is it just me, or does it look like there is a lot of internal rust in the frame, shown in the 2nd picture? Where has the unit been used? Near the ocean, lots of water?

Well we do live about 5 miles from the ocean and 2 miles from the Delaware Bay, we also winter in Ft. Myers Fl which isn't to far from the Gulf of Mexico but I really don't see why this should matter. Yes it is in salt air but never been in salt water. The frame is a closed box tubing so the salt air shouldn't have any way to get inside of it. Unless the box tubing was already rusty when it was put together as a frame, maybe?
I could see salt air attacking the outside of the frame but not the inside.

[BobW]

My Elite had all the spring brackets welds brake off. I don't think one was keeping the springs in place. Problem is, there is very little weld surface to make a good connection. But, some of the brackets were not welded at all. Problem fixed until the next time.

[JPHarris]

Originally Posted by BobW

My Elite had all the spring brackets welds brake off. I don't think one was keeping the springs in place. Problem is, there is very little weld surface to make a good connection. But, some of the brackets were not welded at all. Problem fixed until the next time.

Did you notify anyone at Doubletree or Lippert about this? The person I talked to at Lippert said he never heard of this happening before, yeah right and I was born yesterday.

[Motor31]

Having had a problem with the quality of welds done by Lippert on my own rig, I'm not surprised. That's a high stress area and something all of us should be checking for problems, particularly with some of the rough highways we may encounter. The box frame is a rather thin wall item and it wouldn't take that much to punch through it while welding. That would give access to water and excaserbate the rust problem.

Even though I have had them rewelded, I still check the shock mounts on my rig before we head out while I am checking tire pressure. That's how I found the broken one the first time.

[47hook]

JPHarris, I would suspect that the frame is not a sealed unit, so what ever air is on the outside will be on the inside. I am not trying to be an apologist for Lippert, but just saying they don't do welds very well isn't a definitive explanation for the failure.

If the corrosion is part of the problem, there may be other areas of stress, pin box area, that will eventually fail. Might want to research this a little further, and any info you get would be of interest to us all, I believe.

Good luck.

[JPHarris]

If everyone that ever had a problem with their frames, spring hangers, axles or suspension would file a complaint here http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ maybe Lippert and or DT would pay closer attention to their workmanship.

[Hobo]

I would expect the frame to outlast the unit no matter what the conditions were. Also if the frame was rusted out there would be nothing to weld to for the repairs. The fact that it could be repaired shows that it is not from rusting. Anybody that is having the frame problems should look at the Moreride IS suspension as a fix as it eliminated the small stress area of the leaf spring system.

I had a Thore trailer that was 5 yr old and the frame manufacture took care of the cracks on site in Yuma, AZ at no charge. To say a frame is out of warranty on a manufacture defect in 2 yr is bunk.... especially when DT is touting it has one of the strongest frame on the market.

[47hook]

Let's see, if the frame can be repaired, corrosion isn't a problem. But the OEM couldn't do it right with virgin steel. Ummm. How many times have we read that some "tech/saleman/rep" has led us astray with what is OK? My point is to find someone who doesn't have hands in your pocket to actually determine the cause of the original failure and possible fixes. I'm not a welder, but I suspect that for a weld to hold the underlying metal needs to be clean and defect free. Keep us informed, please. We are all in this together...(Red Green, for all those northwesterners/Canadian TV viewers).

[BobW]

Originally Posted by JPHarris

Did you notify anyone at Doubletree or Lippert about this? The person I talked to at Lippert said he never heard of this happening before, yeah right and I was born yesterday.

This happened a year ago. I don't think I said anything to DT, but did show the RV dealer locality the problem. They did the re welding. I do look at the area every time I go out and haven't seem a return of the problem. The brackets that broke, have a very small area to weld. So, the brake easily.

[47hook]

As usual, I am confused. Who did what when? Looking at the photos again, I believe it is not a year ago weld failure caused by not much area to weld but that the hangers were punched up into the frames, welds basically intact. And there is still all that corrosion on the frame, inside and out, and the axles. A year ago! Yea, let's all call the NTSB, and everyother gov't agency. Maybe they'll maintain our rigs for us.

Not saying it wasn't a bonafied frame failure, but there is more there than is being said, me thinks...

[JPHarris]

Originally Posted by 47hook

Not saying it wasn't a bonafied frame failure, but there is more there than is being said, me thinks...

What do you think there is more of that is not being said?
My last 5er is still sitting in my back yard along side of the MS, an 03 Carriage Cameo, it has some surface rust also. It is now owned by my son but stored in my back yard. When you look at how Carriage installs their spring hangers it is a much better setup. They weld plates along both sides of the frame, it gives much more area to weld to.
I have had the MS weighed 3 different times, the day I picked it up, at the first MS Rally in May of 06 and the first time we towed it to Florida for the winter because I knew that was when it was the heaviest, never have I been over weight on the axles. The MS gets washed on a regular basis and waxed twice a year. I painted the frame area that I could get to one time. Sorry I couldn't get to the inside of the box tubing or even the inside of the frame unless I took the underbelly down. I check the air pressure in the tires before moving the trailer, EVERY TIME. Keep the spring shackles greased even though it was a pain to get to the zerks.
I don't know what more I could have done. If this is from salt air then maybe DT shouldn't be selling these units along each coast and also tell potential owners not to tow them when there is road salt present.
Please do tell if there is more there than what is being said, I would love to know what caused it besides what Lippert told me, POTHOLES.

[JPHarris]

I would love to know who Jocko is, would love to talk to him to see what he found out, also to see if he lives near the ocean or not. As you can see his rig is also a 2005 RE3, same as mine. His left spring hanger did the same thing. Must be more there than what is being said!!!!

As posted on Rvtimes.com by Jocko:
"We had a massive failure with a Lippert frame. Our unit is a 2005
Doubletree Mobile Suite. 36 RE3. The rear spring bracket tore out of
the frame on the left-hand side. This allowed the rear axle to swing
back and all the weight was shifted to the front axle. The center and
front bracket were pulled back about 10 degrees and it would only
have been a matter of time before they tore loose and both axles
would have swung under the rig. Not a good thing! Probably a roll
over!
When we checked the other brackets, cracks were found at the welds
and in the sides of the hangers. We were a thousand miles from home
base and were able to get emergency repairs made to make it home. We
are still waiting to find out what the final fix is! We would like to
make plans for the summer.
I totally agree with Barb, If you have a Lippert frame, please for
yours and the safety of others please have the spring brackets and
welds checked.
I wish I could include pictures."

[morscuba]

Sorry guys gotta add my 2 cents.
After looking at the pics, I'd be willing to bet the farm (and the RV) that he "jacko" did in fact hit a pot hole or curb or some other wonderfull road hazard that we all know are out there lurking. I'm not trying to defend Lippert or Doubletree. But as most of you probably have witnessed. STUFF happens. If you have ever been to the first rest stop On I 70 going into Missouri from Ill. Or been doing 65 when you enter the construction area 435 bypass around KC, or for that matter a good portion of I 40 going through Ark. and don't forget the 65 through Birmingham or Montgomery. You travel enough and its not a matter of "IF" its a matter of "when" you have a close encounter of "crap where did that come from".
I'm giving Jacko the benefit of doubt that it was a road hazard, and not the fact that he coulda made that turn just a little sharp and hit that curb or parking stop in Wally Worlds parking lot. The coaches aren't designed to hit stuff.
As for the rust,,, I have wintered in Key West and spent a buncha time in Ft Myers and the rest of coastal FL. and its full time job keeping surface rust off of anything including chrome. And its not a matter of weeks try days.
Sorry if I offended the folks that are ready to throw rocks at Lippert. But just gotta agree with the guy that said "pot hole"

[Okie]

Another thought that I had, the RE3 has most of the weight on the left side. Thats where the kitchen is. So add that to a posible pothole and a poor weld, well you can see what I mean. Poor frame construction?? QC??

Okie

[Hobo]

Come on people, its the rear axle. What do you think he did, back though a pothole at 60 MPH.
As fare as ruff roads, this is suppose to be the strongest part of the rig, and according to DT the best frame on the market. It should take some ruff road!

I take my units out in the desert as do many others and I don't see this happening to them.

I also think some of you are getting mixed up with what your reading. We have been talking 3 different units here. That is 3 frame failures that I know of in how many DT units? 3000 maybe. If it was potholes then there should be RVs in the weld shop all over the place.

[morscuba]

Just because the front axle didnt break hitting the obstruction doesnt mean SQUAT!!!. And if you really look around at some of the weld shops and RV shops they have plenty of work to do on axle and undercarrage's. I think maybe some of the folks on the forum gotta bad case of "lets blame someone, anyone".

[Hobo]

Originally Posted by morscuba

Just because the front axle didnt break hitting the obstruction doesnt mean SQUAT!!!. And if you really look around at some of the weld shops and RV shops they have plenty of work to do on axle and undercarrage's. I think maybe some of the folks on the forum gotta bad case of "lets blame someone, anyone".

Are you the one with the blind fold on or the rose colored glasses??

[morscuba]

Are you the one with the blind fold on or the rose colored glasses?? [/quote]

Nope I'm the one that doesnt have a lot of sarcastic come back's or hates the world cause I got a supposedly crappy deal from Doubletree, and I'm not the one that was born with s**t for brains. Go on keep haten the world brother, it'll make me feel a whole lot better known you do.