Hydraulics

[traveler]

After more than 2 months of chasing a problem, all concerned have given up. Bummer.

The basic problem: the left landing leg falls about 4 inches when retracted and the TK3 is on the hitch.

After changing the left cylinder , checking the right cylinder , changing various valves (all under the step-by-step direction of Lippert and DoubleTree), the problem remains. And all appear to have surrendered. To the credit of the RV place, they have hung in throughout all of this battle. There have been numerous conference calls among the parties.

Here is more. The left leg drops about 4 inches, but if you grab it after a drop (say 2 inches) and prevent further drop, the residual drop occurs in the other leg. You have 4 inches to distribute however you want among the 2 legs!

We think that if you manually prevent any leg drop at all, the mystery 4 inches does not show up in a slide. This is being checked as I write.

The collective decison is to pin the landing legs up when in the retracted position.

If this works, it is ok with me, but gee whiz it would seem that those who have a hand in using Lippert systems in their RVs, or making or supplying systems for a $60K RV would exhibit a little more committment in working though the problem.

The landing legs always hold up the RV, no matter what. It is only when the legs are retracted that they begin to fall.

I have had zero problems with the hydraulics for three years. This issue appeared about 3 months ago.

If any of you have a magic answer, let me know.

I am tempted to have the RV place rip out all of the hydraulics and replace everything. So far, everything has been handled via warranty.

I am in the process of writing letters ot Lippert and Doubletree to explore this option.

[ponch]

Have you at anytime in the past added hydraulic fluid?

Has the hydraulic fluid been replaced since the problem surfaced?

I'm just asking questions trying to generate thought.

what year is your suite?

Ponch

[billr]

I had this problem a while back. The legs going down all the way after a few min. First one then the other. Same deal though if you grab one the other would drop. Thats because the way they are interconnected. Same as when they lift, one then the other until they balance the pressure. I did have to drill and bolt them to get home. The pressure is residue after the pump stops. The suction seals that are suppose to stop it.

Both the rams were replaced and it solved the problem.

I know that you have been through a lot with this, but I wonder if the RH ram that has yet to be replaced is leaking a small amount on the suction seals causing the opposite ram to extend. I don't know how they checked it out to determine it was OK, but it would be my next step.

Also just because a part was replaced, it could well have been a faulty part on install. It happens more often than you may think. Very frustrating!

If your unit is an early 05 like ours, they put in smaller rams then and have since went to much larger ones. Which is what they put in ours.

If you are not too far from Indiana, maybe take it to DT front door and let them and Lippert have at it! They have to sort this out for you! DT and Lippert are in this together.

Best of luck sorting this out! I feel for ya!!

Bill

[Texas 250]

Ditto on what Bill said. I have an 07 RS3 that has done the same thing twice. Call Van Sims @ Lippert 1-800-524-7821,they sent Bob(I call him the man)because he designed the system for the units. Bob has come to my home twice two fix my hydrallics about 12hr drive from Elkhart to Queen City,Tx.

01/F250/SD/SWB/4wd
07/RS3/Loaded

[traveler]

My TK3 is a 2005. Right cylinder has been tested and I am told it was OK. I added a little fluid just before this problem started.

Thanks for your help

[traveler]

I live in Mongomery, Texas about 8 miles from my RV repair place--a very good operation.

I took the information provided by you guys to them, Russell RV, and they reopened the discussion with Lippert and Kent at Doubletree. All this took from about 8 to 9 am this morning. I was there while the calls were made.

I returned home and have just receive a call from Russell that Lippert is overnighting 2 new, larger leg cylinders to them.

I had some very minor seepage leaks--a drop a week at several fittings that everyone said was no problem. I instructed the techs that, as long as the belly cover was coming off again, to replace all hoses that were seeping.

I will let you all know how this turns out.

Thanks

[billr]

It sounds like you are making some progress! Good job! I hope the 2 new rams take care of the problem. I also noticed a big differnce in the operation of the front jacks after the larger rams were installed. Seem to be much stronger. The previous ones had a hard time lifting when close to full extension. Keep us posted please.

Cheers,
Bill

[Diesel-Gypsy]

:? :? H Y D R A U L I C S :? :?
I'm really glad they forgot to install that particular upgrade on my unit.....


:wink:
Rick

[bstark]

Rick: I think you're getting back at all of us for gett'n a picture of you "up a tree". :wink:

You're missing out on a lot of campfire hydraulic system diagnostic discussion. At least 8 beers per sitting! :P

[ponch]

[ponch]

Ponch

[ponch]

bstark
I think "RICK" is sittin in a tree talking with the OWLS! :D :D :D

Heck just waite he'll falll off the limb for lack of liquid refreshment :) :o

Ponch

[Motor31]

I've been having hydraulic problems for several months now. Actually that's not quite true, it's been since I got the rig for various problems related to them.

The latest batch of problems started last Spring. One slide wouldn't retract. There were no RV service operations that could see me about it for over 2 weeks. When I talked to Lippert one of the folks there talked me through cleaning out the valves related to the slides. I did that and the slides have worked fine since.

Then the landing gear failed to lift the trailer past a certain point. We had to change spots in order to level the front. The next day when I went to look at the issue the landing gear worked fine raising and lowering normally. Thinking that it had to be an air bubble that worked it's way through, all I could do was make sure the fluid level was up.

When we left that park we got about 20 miles away and stopped at a traffic signal. A sign guy (beggar) waved his arms and pointed to the trailer. I pulled over a block later and both legs were way down, one an inch off of the ground. I raised them up, then had to re close the slides. By the time I got back outside the legs were lowering again. I finally cobbled together a leg retention device to hold them up. I have since made a more robust version of it rather than drill the legs for a pin.

After finding and downloading the diagrams / manual from the Lippert site I was going to try and do a bleeding of the system but wanted to ask a couple questions about the design. Contacting Lippert only got me a short phone conversation with a very curt and uninformative individual who would only say take it to a dealer. He refused to either discuss the situation or answer any questions.

There isn't a "suction" on the system according to the diagrams and manual. Both lift and retraction are controlled by pressure flow. Extension by flowing from one hose to the piston / ram and retraction by flow from another hose to the other side of the piston / ram. A valve has to release the pressure from the opposite side of flow. At this time it's obvious that there is a good seal on the rams otherwise the front would start to sag after extension.

I'm going to try and talk to Lippert again then if I can't get any info talk to some techs in Lafayette in about a week. Hopefully I can get some more specific info about bleeding the rams and getting rid of the trapped air. We're on our 4th pump at this time and I'm sure that in swapping them out there has been a fair amount of air added to the lines that has never been fully bled out by the techs who did the work. The last replacement was the pressure modification.

[traveler]

I will not find out for a couple of days if I have my problem worked, but I have heard some strange things--and seen some of it.

First, Lippert says Doubletree installs their bedroom ram backwards because of some clearance issue. Then, says Lippert, you have to use the special Doubletre bleed procedure to get air out of the lines. I did see the actual sheet for this bleeding.

So, who knows? As I so often say, we will see.

A lot of things in life are mechanical and complicated and work just fine. Hydraulics should be easy. Fixing hydraulics for those who have to do it must not be easy for them.

[Motor31]

Traveler,

Any luck with the fix?

[ponch]

Do you remember the bleed procedure?

Ponch

[Motor31]

Hi Ponch,

Yep I do use the sequence for the slides and rams but it's no help. My guess is the air bubbles are in the rams themselves, too far for the process to move them to the pump. I may also have a "fouled" valve at the electric solenoid location. That was what I was trying to ask Lippert about last month.

I had a slide stop moving last August and could not retract it. When I called I talked to a Lippert rep who told me how to clean the solenoid valve for the slide after I couldn't get a repair shop to look at it any sooner than 2 months out. My concern is that if the legs are on the ground and I pull the valve the trailer may settle. That would be ungood. I suspect that it won't happen as the valve doesn't seem to be the main check valve but I'm not sure. The diagrams and manual I have been able to download don't show all of the components in the system. So far I haven't been able to get an answer to the question from Lippert. In the mean time I have to manually secure the legs to keep them from dropping during travel.

[traveler]

After replacing both leg cylinders, it seems that the problem is solved. While they were at it I had easy hydraulic lines replaced--three of them. I still have a drop or two seepage per week at some of the other fittings, but I will live with that. If I get energetic, I may have all the lines replaced, but I have been chasing this problem for three months and need to have my RV back. I am building a barn about 70 miles from my home and need a place to stay overnight.

I have had the legs "pegged" and will submit a picture how it was done soon.

[billr]

Thats good news that it seems fixed! Glad they did both legs for you. I also like the idea of pinning the legs. I may do mine as well as a backup.

Bill