Hydraulic landing legs

[Mogolfers]

We have had major problems with landing legs coming up then drifting to ground again during our trip to the South. Lippert thought it was a "O" ring leak. The space shuttle had that problem in the cold when it blew up! Anyone else had this problem during cold temps? Crist RV in Mesa did not want to help us (even under warranty) because Lippert hasn't been paying warranty work back to dealer. I guess were are orphans. Beware when traveling, as all dealers do not care, some told us it would be a month to get us in. Everthing is OK now in the warm temps.

[billr]

We had a problem where our front jacks sank down while driving, we made it home, got so bad eventually that they wouldn't even retract.

It ended up being the seals on the suction side of the rams. The seals that leaked hold the hyd suction in the ram to hold up the jacks after the pump is off. When they leak, there is no fluid leaking out, just internal leak.

Dealer replaced the rams with the new units used on the 06. (ours was an early 05 came with smaller rams)

Not sure, maybe the Select has the previous model type rams? They did use a few things on the Select that were not same as MS had as far as running gear. Check with Lippert and DT to see if you do have the earlier std rams, and if so I would suggest getting them ordered to replace (under warranty) Even if they are the newer ones, they use the same process. Once these seals start to leak, they may just let go and leave you in my situation.

Good luck and keep a very good eye on them while towing! I drilled a hole and put a bolt in to hold them up till I got them replaced.

Cheers,
Bill

[Mogolfers]

Our problem, on the road, is some dealers are tired of dealing with Lippert problems. Crist Rv in Mesa suggested I find some other dealer to help me as they sometimes do not get money for repairs under warranty from Lippert. Crist service department asked when my 5th wheel was built, as Lippert was only covering repairs one year from build date not delivery date to customers. That's hard to believe! Thanks for the advice. We'll call Dave at Lippert Monday and see what he thinks.

[billr]

That is very unfortunate that the dealer is treating you this way. That is unacceptable. I suggest you contact DT and have them sort it out. They should be aware of what this dealer is doing. You may be better served going to another dealer anyway as with this dealers attitude I would be uncomfortable having them touch my unit. Have DT make the arrangements for you.

Your warranty should be 2yrs from your delivery date, not from build date.

DT will look after you I'm sure. Also, most have had good success with help from Lippert. (they are sometimes slow to get back to you)

If you put a post on here asking for recommended dealers for service for you current location, I'm sure someone will have info.

Cheers,
Bill

[RodeWorthy]

There have been quite a few complaints about the dealer out in Mesa. I have no direct experience but those that have, have been quite vocal about it. I suggest you deal directly with Lippert to find out what their policy is. I have never heard of any mfr starting warranty from the day the unit is built. That doesn't make any sense.

It has come to my attention that an RV magazine has reported that Lippert has just bought Trail-Air. We would all hope that the poor warranty rumours are unfounded. From what I have read on this forum for the last two years, Lippert and Doubletree provide exemplary service and support. Try another dealer.

Rodeworthy

[ponch]

The rumor concerning TrailAir being sold to Lippert is correct.

Dale will stay on in retail sales for a year with options for more.

Knowing Dale he will do his utmost to instill in lippert to continue the quality of service the trail Air company had under his realm.

Ponch

[bstark]

I can verify the sale as well. Dale did some service work on our unit last fall and I was frankly amazed at his efforts to please us. He mentioned then that the sale was in the works. I second Ponch's hope that Dale is able to "maintain" Trailair's reputation for product quality and service.

Dale also mentioned that it was his intention to attend the rally in Branson and I would sure like to treat him to a bottle of his favourite beverage?????

[ponch]

He will be there in their new suite.

Ponch

[bardave]

I too have had trouble with hydraulics from Lippert. Air in the lines and jacks going down when I push the up button.

In the past I spoke to Dale Brubaker at Lippert...he is no longer there.

At end of Jan I spoke to Amanda Trumps...she identified the problem and mailed the repair to SW RV in Katy Tx........... only half the parts to repair was mailed...even thought she told me what it takes to repair....I called for Amanda to find out why only half a shipment shows up.....she is no longer there.....

I then spoke to a Dave Beard.... he tells me he would mail out the wiring harness to complete the fix... it did not show up....I called again and Dave Beard in no longer there....

then I spoke to Vance Simms and he says the part was mailed on 9 Feb and should show up 14 Feb.... yesterday, I learn from Vance that the part was never shipped from Lippert
Vance supposedly overnighted it to SWRV 14 FEb.... we will see....

Seems that Lippert is having a serious personnel problem and that apparently is not the only problem they have. I understand a restructuring is going on... maybe that is why they dont pay thieir bills

The real problem here....is that Double tree and Lippert know this problem exist and know what the fix is....and yet they continue to sell trailers without fixing the problem...

It is now 32 days since my problem was identified and hopefully the part showed up at the RV shop today.

[BobW]

Jujst as we started to head south, I went to retract the frt legs and as soon as I released the button, the legs fell down. I keaped hitting the button until the legs stayed up. We've had nothing but problems with this bulls--- companys products. It seems every product that goes into an RV is just plane crap. Build it, get it out to the buyer and forget it. Let the buyer put up with it. We are all a bunch of suckers.

[john]

Bob,
It appears as if you got a very bad unit. I feel for you.
Please don't refer to all of us as "suckers" I have had a few problems with my unit and they where fixed as soon as I pointed them out to the dealer.
The unit is now a year old and along with some other buyers are please with Doubletree.

[RustyJC]

Sorry, but I don't feel like a sucker at all. First of all, my MS doesn't have Lippert hydraulics. Secondly, it's only been back to the dealer one time - for a failed slideout drive gear, and Doubletree replaced the entire slideout drive unit, including the gearbox and motor. We're pleased with our MS - if we weren't, we'd sell or trade it and get something else.

Rusty

[WildJohn]

I also had a problem with the landing gear but it appears to be fixed now... It started dropping on the way back from our son's U of I graduation.. 4 hours of working on it on the road got us back here. 500 miles round trip to the purchasing dealer to have the pump,wiring harness, both front cylinders, and the solenoid on the street side replaced.
I couldn't be happier with the responsiveness of the Lippert people or my dealer. As the saying goes "feces occurs" and it is how the problem is handled that makes the difference. we are still very happy with our 'suite' after ten months full time..
John and Annie
2WildNurss

[BobW]

Bob,
Please don't refer to all of us as "suckers"

We are all suckers, when it comes to accepting pore quality manufactured components from people that only want your money. When every item made for your RV is made by the same manufacture, you have no choice but buy from them, or go without. Example, you furnace. I've owned 5 RV's and everyone has had a problem with the furnace. How about your home furnace? Same quality? How about the Fridge? Does your home fridge only last three years? This is not to say anything about DoubleTree. There not the ones that make components for your RV. I'm talking about Dometic and others. Junk. Sorry if you can't accept this fact. Last year I talked to a dealer that told me all the RV's out there are built the same way and have the same issues.

[RustyJC]

If you feel that way, have you considered leaving the RVing lifestyle? Life's too short to be miserable.

Rusty

[rverdlm]

Bob, you make it sound like everyone has all these problems. I bought my first hard side RV almost 40 years ago. Most of them I kept for 10 years or more. I drove my first MH over 80K miles. My first full time trailer was towed over 120K miles. While the pin box broke after about 90K miles Fleetwood repaired it at no cost to me. I've yet to replace any of the components you mention. I did replace one AC unit and one Thetford toilet. Over those years, when I had a house I did replace 2 refrigerators, one AC unit, and a furnace. I don't think an entire industry can be considered trash because some have had problems. Most of the companies that I've contacted over the years have been very helpful in solving the problems I've experienced. Companies like Fantastic fan, MS, Tiffin and Fleetwood come to mind.

[rjttam]

Absolutely not true that all units are built alike and have the same issues.

Bob,

Please don't refer to all of us as "suckers"

We are all suckers, when it comes to accepting pore quality manufactured components from people that only want your money. When every item made for your RV is made by the same manufacture, you have no choice but buy from them, or go without. Example, you furnace. I've owned 5 RV's and everyone has had a problem with the furnace. How about your home furnace? Same quality? How about the Fridge? Does your home fridge only last three years? This is not to say anything about DoubleTree. There not the ones that make components for your RV. I'm talking about Dometic and others. Junk. Sorry if you can't accept this fact. Last year I talked to a dealer that told me all the RV's out there are built the same way and have the same issues. :lol: :lol:

[BobW]

And where does your informmation come from? I've worked for a RV rental business and have done repair work on more than 20 brands of RV's. You will never get that experience as a owner. No, not all RV's are built the same, I'll give you that. Means very little to the owner of a lemon. Lucky for me I can do most all my repair work. Not so lucky for the retired owner on an extended trip. I think we can lay this to rest. One persons experence can't speak for everyone.


[quote="rjttam"]Absolutely not true that all units are built alike and have the same issues.

[quote="BobW"][quote="john"]

[rjttam]

I believe after having owned 14 RVs & have the 15th on order, I have gained some knowledge, and have repaired most problems that will occur in an RV. How many have you actually owned and had to maintain? I'll match my knowledge with yours any day. But, enough of this bickering, have a nice day.

And where does your informmation come from? I've worked for a RV rental business and have done repair work on more than 20 brands of RV's. You will never get that experience as a owner. No, not all RV's are built the same, I'll give you that. Means very little to the owner of a lemon. Lucky for me I can do most all my repair work. Not so lucky for the retired owner on an extended trip. I think we can lay this to rest. One persons experence can't speak for everyone.


[quote="rjttam"]Absolutely not true that all units are built alike and have the same issues.

[quote="BobW"][quote=john] :lol: :lol:

[Mogolfers]

Legs are working fine, so we have not taken our Select in! However Lippert did say to put slides in this order. When arriving: landing legs, bedroom slide, either liv. rm or kitchen slide, then stablizers. When leaving: stabilizers, either liv. rm or kitchen, bedroom slide then landing legs. In other words work front to back then back to front. This is the first time anyone has ever told us THIS order. We will move again the 8th keep your fingers crossed!

[Motor31]

Dave,

That's pretty much the same info I got when talking to the rep that installed the "upgrade" at last years rally. The idea was to help the system self bleed air bubbles when you use it. The only thing I dislike about the order is the stabilizers. I like having them down before I move any slides since the rig isn't totally level until all the jacks are down.

[sr]

I had a seal replaced in Dec. 06 and when I returned home and put the slides out and back in the first time, the bedroom slide started extending when I put the front legs up. The next time, I put the slides in 1. living room, 2. Kitchen, 3. Bedroom, 4. Rear and 5. Front legs. Setting up, 1. Front Legs, 2. Rear Legs, 3. Living room, 4. Kitchen, and 5. Bedroom. So far have not had any problems since and we set up and moved 3 times last week. I had the same problem when it was new and someone on the forum said to put the slides in in this order and I had not had a problem until December, when DT worked on the Pump. Hope this helps.

[Mogolfers]

That is the order we used until the latest problems with the landing legs drifting down. Lippert now suggested the new order of front to back when sitting up and back to front with leaving. This is the third order we've tried, per the experts. Hope it helps!

[Motor31]

It seems I spoke too soon on our hydraulics. Since we started moving again I had full operastion of the system until it came time to raise the main jacks. Now the main jacks don't want to raise up. It seems there may be an air bubble in or near the main legs. I have to open the bedroom slide then raise the main legs then close the bedroom slide again. All of the knobs are fully turned counterclockwise.

I still have to tweak the slides closed after raising the legs. I'm going to be moving at least 3 more times in the next 4 weeks so I'll decide in a bit about calling Lippert again. While I was taken care of when the pump failed last year I was underwhelmed by the response and the attempt to add a service charge at the last second with no notice to me.

[BobW]

It seems I spoke too soon on our hydraulics. Since we started moving again I had full operastion of the system until it came time to raise the main jacks. Now the main jacks don't want to raise up. It seems there may be an air bubble in or near the main legs. I have to open the bedroom slide then raise the main legs then close the bedroom slide again. All of the knobs are fully turned counterclockwise.

I still have to tweak the slides closed after raising the legs. I'm going to be moving at least 3 more times in the next 4 weeks so I'll decide in a bit about calling Lippert again. While I was taken care of when the pump failed last year I was underwhelmed by the response and the attempt to add a service charge at the last second with no notice to me.

Welcome to the club. I can't get the pin off my Pickup. The jacks will come down, but don't hold. The dealer had to lift it up with a fork lift. It's working OK now and hasen't failed yet. Fingers crossed. Dealer found no problem with it.

[sr]

Maybe a class action lawsuit would wake up Lippert!!!

[bstark]

An elderly couple parked right behind me with a 32' Mobile Suites is having the same problem, not being able to elevate his rig to get under with his truck, so I used my truck with the suspension dumped to back under and put a bunch of lumber between the hitch and his pin-box then aired up my suspension to lift his trailer about 6".

I could not find any leaks in his system but did note the 22 number in the serial number on his pump & advised him to contact Doubletree. He has since been contacted by Lippert and they have authorized a repair facility here in Yuma to change out the pump and replace it with the combo 2800 with delay module.

Why can't Doubletree and Lippert comprehend the need to send advisory notices out to all who have the weaker pump that they may encounter problems and should get this upgrade done rather than address it on an ad-hoc basis. My heart goes out to these folks behind me as they have had to hook up and overnite with their truck out in the street to make an 8AM appointment for pump changeout.

[rjttam]

Maybe we're to quick to blame Lippert. Could it be a faulty design in the way the system is installed by DT? Just a thought... My problem was leaking hose fittings, don't believe that was Lippert's fault..

Maybe a class action lawsuit would wake up Lippert!!!

[sigo'suite]

Maybe a class action lawsuit would wake up Lippert!!!

Oh hell yeaahh, let's get the lawyers involved !!!!!!

Make everyone feel good, especially the lawyers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rverdlm]

I messed up the quote thing so I'll try it differently.

[rverdlm]

I think all the hydraulics are done by Lippert when they build the frame. It all comes to DT assembled.

[jdwilson3]

Just a note: We parked our ES in October and opened everything up for the winter season. Last week, March 1st, I pulled the slides in, so that I could add air to the tires. I decided to pull the BR slide in just to check operations. All three slides functioned the way they were supposed to. With the ES sitting lsince October, we have experienced NO change in level, so the hydraulics have held pressure at both the front jacks and real stabilizers.

I probably should not have posted this, because I'll probably find the front sitting on the ground tomorrow :lol:

[rjttam]

I doubt that the hydraulic lines are preassembled, since they need to be routed thru various wall cut outs etc. At least thats the way mine have been
configured.
I think all the hydraulics are done by Lippert when they build the frame. It all comes to DT assembled. :o :o

[billr]

I think you both are right, from what I remember when at DT, the frames come from Lippert with all the jacks and rams for slides attached and plumbed, and the pump units are added at DT later. We were watching the bare frame on the line being tested and bled from a separate pump and control unit (floor mounted) with all the actuators moving in and out. We had to watch out not to get hit!

Cheers,
Bill

[ChrisM]

Hopefully I'm not kicking a sleeping dog here, but maybe I can shed some light on some of the topics discussed here.

1. DT's Lippert chassis's and hydraulics arrive preassembled and nearly ready to go.

2. At this point, any DT product that has hydraulic issues will automatically recieve the new updated "Enhancement Kit" that includes a pump assembly and a delay box for the front legs. The delay box removes the "dip" you get when you try to lift the coach. The issue was that the system had to build pressure to lift the coach and untill that pressure was reached, the coach would drift or drop down first. The delay box runs the pump first for a few seconds, then opens the valve for the jacks.

3. Some of the earlier DT's using the Lippert landing gear had issues with the chrome plating chipping off of the rams, tearing up the seals and causing external and internal leaks within the cylinders. If you've ever tried to raise your unit up, heard the pump run, but nothing moved, you've got an internal leak in either jack. Another symptom is when trying to lift the coach off of the tow vehicle, it will quit moving just shy of seperating from the hitch. The fix? Replacing the offending cylinder as a unit and a close inspection of the fluid in the tank. If there was a great deal of debris, the pump ass'y should also be replaced.

4.Lippert has gone through a pretty heavy restaffing. They also had a little problem with flooding from a nearby river last year (around this time if I remember right). It really threw them for a loop and made it difficult to do anything for a while, which brings me to my next point...

5. I too (or more specifically the company I work for) have had some issues with Lippert not paying their bills in a timely fashion. Though that has been cleared up for quite some time now (once those items I pointed out in #3 were squared away, it was back to buisness as usual), it made it very hard for us to help those that needed it. I can understand the dealers stance and not wanting to take on any unit that wasn't purchased from their lot. However, its not a decision that is taken lightly. Its really a double edged sword. You don't want to take a huge monetary loss because no one is paying for the work, but at the same time you don't want to dirty your otherwise good reputation (and losing even more money) by not doing the work in the first place. Ultimatly you have to make a buisness decision and cut the most painful losses and hope everything comes back around quickly. Buisnesses reserve that right to refuse to offer service at their descretion. No one likes to do it, but sometimes it has to be done. :(

6. Lipperts warranty on their systems for towables are 5 years from the build date of the coach, not the purchase date. As far as I know, they are the only ones that do that. But still, unless you buy last years closeout, you still have 3-4 years before you'll be footing any hydraulic repair bills.