Break failure

[4happyfeet]

When it rains...Put the rig away, next time out, no brakes! Truck says it’s putting out 6.5 gain. Any suggestions on how I can start to track the trouble down? Speak slowly, please, I’m not very mechanically oriented. Thanks!

[anijet]

When you apply the trailer brakes manually with the ITBC lever do you hear the trailer actuator running? Assuming you have disc brakes.


If you do, check the brake actuator fluid level.


If not, you'll need to troubleshoot from the ITBC to the actuator circuit and go from there.

[4happyfeet]

Thanks, anti jet. What I heard was “put part A into part b and if that doesn’t go, then try part C”. Sounds like a dealer visit. I looked inside the cabinet where the batteries are, but I think I was looking at the slide hydrolics. Yes, they are disc brakes. Where is the brake actuator located? Same compartment?

[anijet]

My unit is older so may not be the same but it is a Carlisle and is behind the sliding doors in the basement.



Looks like: https://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Actuator/Hydrastar/HBA-12.html

[Cummins12V98]

First thing is your actuator making noise when applying the brakes? If it is do the following.

Looking at the water manifold now look to the left. It's a silver aluminum box about 3" wide and 8" tall with a black cap on the top. Remove cap look inside is there any brake fluid visible? Stick your finger down into the hole is there any on your finger?

If you can't feel the fluid and actuator has no fluid you have a huge air gap and the brakes will not work or very poorly. Cure is to bleed the brake lines. I "HIGHLY" advise doing the job right where you are! do not take your RV onto the road with NO brakes!!!

[stanleyz]

How did you determine you have no brakes. I ask because if you are checking for brakes under about 12 MPH there will be no out put, Secondly these trucks are prety smart and they will tell you is the trailer has a wire fault. I don;t think 6,5 will do much stopping on a trailer that big. If you have disc brakes that may not be true. Hope this is helpful

[porkchop]

Don't understand "under about 12 MPH there will be no out put" My brakes work as well at 5 mph as they do at 65mph. Explain please.

Bill

[stanleyz]

Don't understand "under about 12 MPH there will be no out put" My brakes work as well at 5 mph as they do at 65mph. Explain please.

Bill

The OP has a ford truck, ford trucks do not output through the cord below 12 or 13 MPH. You may have a different truck or prehaps ford changed that lately but 2014 and up to 2016 applies. Often people will put a voltage meter on the two brake pins and have someone push the brake pedal. Thjey will get no voltage and assume a problem when none exsist. It will supply voltage if you squeeze the two little handles on the controller.

[porkchop]

Well, I have a 2008 Ford F350 & a 2017 Ford F350. The brakes on either, when hooked to my DRV do work at 5 Mph as I stated above. Hard and rock solid. That is using the foot pedal or the hand brake. I just came back inside from verifying that with the 2017.

Bill

[Srosa]

I have a 2017 F450 and at very low speeds, the controller significantly reduces trailer braking force. The hand switch on the controller can be used to apply more trailer braking if needed. This braking ‘characteristic’ has been discussed at length on the Ford forums.

[Notanlines]

What Srosa said. Our 2019 is the same.

[stanleyz]

Well, I have a 2008 Ford F350 & a 2017 Ford F350. The brakes on either, when hooked to my DRV do work at 5 Mph as I stated above. Hard and rock solid. That is using the foot pedal or the hand brake. I just came back inside from verifying that with the 2017.

Bill

Interesting, mine on a 2014 do not. I had an 08 also but I don't remember if they did or not on that truck. Below 12 MPH I don't think I could tell if the trailer brakes did anything or not when the pedal is applied. Of course they bite with the squeezer, and that's how I check them when getting underway. As someone below said this has been discussed on FTE. I had a problem with mine and when trouble shooting that learned the hard way that there is no output from the brake pedal stopped. I learned from somewhere that they did not output below 12 MPH. But if you are sure your controller is stopping the trailer and not the truck brakes I guess Ford may have changed it on the 17 and up.

On Edit. OK I almost had it right. 2014 owners manual page 192. The TBC outputs very low signal at speeds under 11 MPH. What I told the OP waas correct. You cannot trouble shoot the trailer brakes when stopped by having someone push the brake pedal while you check for power at the wheels. You can however check them by squeezing the hand control. You can also check the trailer by pulling the break away, trailer should lock up.

[stanleyz]

All right I think I got it right now, see my entry above. Also I would add that if you are alone you can take a pair of vice grip pliers and loch the squezzers and that should activate the trailer brakes. They can be checked with a compass or you should be able to hear a hummmmmm at each wheel. Best check of colurse is get the wheel up and spin it then squeeze or use the vice grips and see if the wheel is locked. Release vice grips while jacking for the next wheel. Hope this helps someone.

[anijet]

All right I think I got it right now, see my entry above. Also I would add that if you are alone you can take a pair of vice grip pliers and loch the squezzers and that should activate the trailer brakes. They can be checked with a compass or you should be able to hear a hummmmmm at each wheel. Best check of colurse is get the wheel up and spin it then squeeze or use the vice grips and see if the wheel is locked. Release vice grips while jacking for the next wheel. Hope this helps someone.


OP has electric over hydraulic disc brakes not electric drum brakes.

[stanleyz]

OP has electric over hydraulic disc brakes not electric drum brakes.

I didn’t see that. Sorry. But still this may help someone with an old junky trailer like mine.

[Cummins12V98]

Hold the OH SH!T bar or place foot on brake pedal you should hear the actuator making noise in the basement.

[porkchop]

I really don't care what happens in any vehicle discussed somewhere else. Or what happens in your truck. I stated what happens in mine. And my trailer brakes work with the foot pedal or the squeeze bar at below 12 mph. Rock solid.
At an absolutely dead stop you can hear the actuator powered up and working.
Sorry about yours.

And both of my vehicles are older than 2017.

"the controller significantly reduces trailer braking force. The hand switch on the controller can be used to apply more trailer braking"

Don't really understand this statement. The 'controller reduces braking' or 'the 'controller can be used to apply more braking' ??

Bill

[wingnut60]

"Well, I have a 2008 Ford F350 & a 2017 Ford F350."

"And both of my vehicles are older than 2017."

Some more hard to understand statements....

[porkchop]

The point was=He said he thought ford changed in 2017. I said I have a 08 & a 17=They both brake exactly the same. There==that seems easy to understand.

Bill

[Srosa]

The point was=He said he thought ford changed in 2017. I said I have a 08 & a 17=They both brake exactly the same. There==that seems easy to understand.

Bill

This is from my 2017 Ford F450 owner’s manual in the towing section:

“The trailer brake controller is equipped with a feature that reduces output at vehicle speeds below 11 mph (18 km/h) so trailer and vehicle braking is not jerky or harsh. This feature is only active when applying the brakes using your vehicle's brake pedal, not the controller.”

Steve

[wingnut60]

Darn, that's what the manual in my '17 450 says....

Bill, I only pointed that out since I know you never make a mistake...

[4happyfeet]

Thanks, all. I just came back from checking the actuator-it’s full. I am going to go back and clean up the trailer side of 7 way plug. I had put some electrolytic grease in it on advice from my Ford dealer, then proceeded to drop it in the dirt. I bought some electrical connector spray and will check it after cleaning. I could have sworn that I could stop forward motion at slow speeds by manually applying the brakes. I ordered a new 7 way pin checker, but got delayed due to weather. Going to check brake and ground pins on truck for output.

[4happyfeet]

Cleaned all of the plug connectors. Got a 1 or 2 at 20 omg as DW pumped brakes. Seems like a change in resistance, so I figure it’s not the truck. Brake actuator only clicks, no hum when brakes applied. New actuator?

[porkchop]

I have not heard of an actuator going bad but if yours only clicks instead of going to work, it may be.

Wingnut=Why are you having so much difficulty understand that I am talking about my 350? I do not care what the manual for your 450 says. Different vehicles! Mine works the way I said it does.. And you can not prove otherwise by making smart a-- remarks.
Give it up-you're wrong about MY truck.

Bill

[4happyfeet]

Just got off the phone with HydraStar, the actuator mfg. He emailed me two service bulletins to take to my Ford dealer that are instructions to re-flash the truck’s computer to change the settings. He said that they have had this problem show up several times and that it is ONLY with 2019 F350 and 2019DRVs!

[Srosa]

Just got off the phone with HydraStar, the actuator mfg. He emailed me two service bulletins to take to my Ford dealer that are instructions to re-flash the truck’s computer to change the settings. He said that they have had this problem show up several times and that it is ONLY with 2019 F350 and 2019DRVs!
That’s great news! Is there a chance that you could share the Ford bulletin numbers?

[4happyfeet]

Sure, they are from Ford SVE Bulletin:
QVM Bulletin: Q-263
QVM Bulletin: Q-261R1

[clev]

Everyone knows that I hate to agree with anything that Porkie posts, but in this case, I have to agree with him. My 2012 F350 brake controller works from a dead stop and up. That's how I initially set the gain, and then finalize the set up with the foot brake. Let it idle forward and squeeze the finger controls, then let it idle forward and use the foot brake. Mine is set to 7.5. If 6.5 is not working, why not increase the gain?

[wingnut60]

Clev,
The finger controls work at any speed, it is the pedal input that is programmed to decrease braking at low speeds.

[wingnut60]

Bill,
What year is your 350?

[clev]

Sorry wing, I should have been more clear. 'Initially' I start with the finger controls, and then use the foot for final adjustments. After I have it set, I don't use fingers anymore. Parking in my garage is a real chore for us that sometimes takes 15-20 minutes, and the actuator and brakes working on the coach are obvious.