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View Full Version : Tire Weight Rating/ CC Silverback


GReeves
07-22-2018, 07:16 AM
Hello all, first post here. I am making myself crosseyed trying to figure out if I will be safe towing with the wheel/tire setup on my truck. Currently, I have a 2016 Duramax 2500HD CCSB with the 10,000# GVWR option, the truck has been leveled with 22x10 American Force forged aluminum wheels with a 3500-lb weight rating per wheel. Currently have 33x12.50 Toyo OpenCountry MT which I know are only rated for 2270-lbs per tire, severely reducing my cargo capacity. I am looking at putting on 285/55r22 Nitto RidgeGrappler which are rated for 3525-lbs per tire....this effectively means I could put 7K on the rear axle, limited by the wheels. Truck is around 3500-lbs on the rear axle with the hitch in the bed, fuel, and myself. Does anyone have a real world hitch weight for a 2012 Cedar Creek Silverback 33REA by chance??? I know 20-25% of the GVW is the norm for a fifth wheel but I have a hard time believing that this camper will have a hitch weight around 3500-lbs (25% of 13,850-lbs). Dry hitch weight is listed at 1850-lbs. Currently, my dad tows this camper with his 2011 F250 CCSB with 20x9 XD Badlands (3200-lb weight rating) with 35x12.50r20 Toyo OpenCountry AT-2ís (3200-lb weight rating) and I dont see an F250 and a 2500HD differing in weight by too much but maybe I am wrong. He has offered to sell me his camper for payoff and I really donít want to pass this deal up since it would be a steal for me.

wingnut60
07-22-2018, 10:37 AM
I would lean more toward 20% of the GVWR. 13850 x .2 = 2770, not 3500lbs. Why not get him/you to weigh the trailer and get the pin weight?
You are headed in the right direction to get higher-capacity tires, because that is usually the actual rear axle capacity max on a 3/4ton.
A real steal from a trusted source should not be passed up, maybe mod the truck back to regular tires?
Also, there ought to be a CC/Silverback owner forum somewhere on the internet--google for it.
Welcome to the forum. Let us know how this plays out.
Joe

GReeves
07-22-2018, 10:50 AM
Thanks Joe. Going to re-weigh my truck tomorrow just to make sure of the weight. I will try to have him drag the trailer over to the scale one day and weigh with and without the trailer to see what the exact pin weight is. My RGAWR is 6200 on my truck, so going with the 285 tires, my axle would actually be the weak link at that point. Do airbags actually help the rear axle weight rating or are the just more for leveling the load?

wingnut60
07-22-2018, 02:49 PM
Nothing you can do will increase the RAWR from the factory number. This is determined by the engrs at GM. Air bags will help with any rear end squat caused by the pin weight of the fiver.
Most all axle assemblies themselves will have a higher weight rating by themselves, it is the rest of the truck that is used to determine all the numbers. I have always considered the carrying capacity of the tires as the ultimate limit for weight, and then don't like to not have some overcapacity where the rear tires are concerned.
If you take my earlier estimate of max pin weight of 2770, and the RAWR of 6200, that gives you 3430lbs to work with. That 3430 would include the weight of the hitch and any other items that are in the bed.
Again, I would not worry too much about the 6200lb axle, but would NEVER go over the carrying capacity of the 2 rear tires.
Really need to get some actual weights as you would be loaded to go camping--only then can you be sure where you are on limits.
Joe

GReeves
07-22-2018, 02:59 PM
With my current wheel and the 285’s, the wheels could hold 7K and the tires could hold 7,050 pounds. If the axle is not the real concern then I am feeling a little better about this. I ran a VIN check, and it says minimum RAWR is 6200 with a maximum RAWR of 6750??...either way, the scale will let me know but I think I will be ok after the change in tire, thanks again

wingnut60
07-22-2018, 03:32 PM
What does the door sticker say?
I am not the weight police, and there must literally be hundreds of 2500s towing much larger trailers than the one you are thinking to get.
On my current trip, been in many campgrounds with triple axle THs that have 17-19000 GVWRs and pulled by 2500s/250s and a lot of them were lifted with big tires. Safe? I don't know, but lots of people doing just that.
I think you are going to be ok, just have new and the best tire rating you can get.

GReeves
07-22-2018, 03:59 PM
My door sticker says 6200 so thats what Iím going to go by. Thanks for your opinion, Iíve posted on several different sites and Iíve mainly gotten crappy responses telling me I ďshouldnít tow anything at all with 22ís because they look stupid and serve no purposeĒ....well I beg to differ, I think my truck can look good and still perform as good as factory with the right tire. My truck was leveled with wheels/tires by the dealer, I just got stuck with crappy tires with a lesser weight rating. And I agree, I see some giant 5íers going down the road towed by 3/4 ton trucks all the time

Notanlines
07-23-2018, 08:52 AM
I can't help but believe that the OP deserved a better answer than "Safe? I don't know, but lots of people doing just that." I also believe that the OP is going to tow this RV with the tires of his choice regardless of what is recommended. He is simply searching for a forum that will stamp the okay to his plan.
I'm not sure if I can be referred to as "weight police," but I do believe that RV'ers should know their truck's legal capabilities and the ACTUAL weight of their cargos. Once the figures are know then an individual can act accordingly.

GReeves
07-23-2018, 09:34 AM
I can't help but believe that the OP deserved a better answer than "Safe? I don't know, but lots of people doing just that." I also believe that the OP is going to tow this RV with the tires of his choice regardless of what is recommended. He is simply searching for a forum that will stamp the okay to his plan.
I'm not sure if I can be referred to as "weight police," but I do believe that RV'ers should know their truck's legal capabilities and the ACTUAL weight of their cargos. Once the figures are know then an individual can act accordingly.

Nope, thats where you are wrong. If I canít safely tow this camper with my truck, then I will simply tell my dad to sell it outright. Iím not going to risk breaking something on my truck just because I can get a smoking deal on the camper. I canít afford to go up to a dually as Iíve only had my 3/4 ton for about 8 months. I had no intention of buying a 5th wheel, I just love 3/4 ton trucks. I went back to a half ton and hated it so Iím back in a 3/4 ton. I daily drive this truck and pull my bass boat with it. If I go up to the 285/55ís those tires will put me OVER the RAWR of 6200.....so regardless of what anyone says, the 22ís on my truck with the 285/55ís are better than factory. Tires that came factory were rated for 3200-lbs a piece

Notanlines
07-23-2018, 11:25 AM
I'm glad to see you post that last answer. I also understand owners not wanting to trade in relatively new trucks. Tire brands and pin weights on under-rated trucks are probably the two most hotly debated/discussed subjects on the forums. So far we all have a great conversation going.

GReeves
07-23-2018, 05:08 PM
So here is the PDF of the CAT scale ticket for my truck today. This is with full tank of fuel, me in the truck, toolbox with tools, my FF gear and other junk in the backseat, spray in bed liner and the hitch rails, did not have the hitch in the bed but I did have a set of traction bars back there that are close to the weight of the hitch

Notanlines
07-23-2018, 06:11 PM
Kudos to you for going to the scale. Now you know what can be loaded on the hitch. Let's start with the factory figure of 1765. You and Momma will probably load about 900 to 1000 pounds of "stuff" eventually into the RV. When you upgrade a few years down the road that figure will increase dramatically. Loading it from front to rear, most will be at the axles or in front of the axles. That means that about (there's that word) 400 pounds will be added to the pin. Let's add about 150 pounds for battery and propane.
You're going to be about 600 or so pounds over according to the weights listed on your door pillar, but in line with the maximums on your tires.
It is your call. I would venture to say that the vast majority of members here have towed at one time or another over maximum. You certainly can put me in that category. I can neither condone nor disapprove of overweight towing. The most important idea is that you KNOW where you stand and act accordingly. And you took that step by going to the scale.

GReeves
07-23-2018, 08:41 PM
Using 20% of the GVWR gives me a 2770-lb pin weight. I will say that I do not take half of the house with me when I go camping like some folks. If I put a cooler or some firewood in the bed and have an empty rear axle weight of 3500-lbs, I’d be at 6270 on the rear axle, which is still well within my wheel/tire limits in my mind. Going by my math though, this means that my dad is right at or over his wheel/tire limit if his truck is even remotely close to my trucks weight. His wheels and tires both have a max weight rating of 3200-lbs a piece and a RAWR of 6100

CALinSC
07-30-2018, 01:01 AM
A lot of discussion here about your truck's RGAWR. It's very unlikely that the rear axle can be overloaded without exceeding the truck's GVWR, which is the truck's load limiting factor.

wingnut60
07-30-2018, 09:47 AM
Yes, at 8160 as he weighed it and a 10k gross, leaves only 1840 for a fifth wheel pin weight before going over the 10k.

elliott-maine
07-30-2018, 05:20 PM
Really to close. The pin weight quoted is without accessories added to the trailer, and it doesn't take much to get over 20%. I would figure 25% to add a slight factor of safety. You are really close.