Battery wiring

[clev]

I have six 6-volt batteries wired in series to parallel. According to what I’ve researched plus the diagram that I’m looking at right now, the negative cable to the inverter should come from the first battery in the string, and the positive should come from the last battery. In addition to that, and the reason for this post, I have all the other negative cables attached to the first battery and all the other positive cables attached the last. These additional cables have created a large stack on each terminal. For those that have a similar situation, have you distributed the cables among the other batteries or just have them stacked as I do?

[porthole]

https://d3axvdqkyu09xk.cloudfront.net/attachments/6battery-connections-seriesparallel-gif.11647/


https://d3axvdqkyu09xk.cloudfront.net/attachments/6battery-connections-seriesparallel-gif.11647/

[clev]

That’s the same picture that I have port, but it doesn’t answer my question. What about all the other negative and positive connections? Do they also go on the first and last terminals? Or can they be distributed among the other batteries?

[porthole]

I can’t picture what you have or are referring to.
Have a sketch or something you can share ?

[clev]

My wiring is the same as the picture you posted. However, I have 7 other connections on both the positive and negative terminals. On the ground from the first battery in the string, I have the main cable to the inverter, the cable to the house system, the cable to the ground on the next pair of batteries, the generator control, the battery temperature sensor, the solar controller (2 separate cables), ground for tank sensors, and ground for the BMK; that makes a big stack. And then there's a similar stack on the positive of the last battery in the string.

[porthole]

Clev - the only wire/cables I would have on my batteries is/are the interconnecting 2/0 or 4/0 battery cables and the positive - negative cables going to the inverter. Exception being a battery temp sensor.

From the inverter I would run two “systems” wires, + & - to an appropriate size bus bar. From there you add all your other 12 volt connections.

Some examples here.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s?k=portholedc+bus+bar

[clev]

Yes, that is my question. So, if I’m understanding correctly, you have wired a bus bar directly to the large lugs/connections on the inverter for both the positive and negative. And the only connections that are wired directly to the actual batteries are the inverter, battery series wiring, temp sensor, and solar hook up. Everything else goes to the bus. Is that correct?

[porthole]

If it was mine I would have nothing extra on the batteries, not even SOLAR.

Especially if you have lead acid batteries.

I would also have a positive cable battery disconnect between the batteries and inverter and switchable breakers for the ancillary loads going to the bus bar.


But, that’s just me and I am not a SOLAR expert - yet ��

[clev]

Thank you, port, for taking the time to discuss this with me, and having patience with my lack of knowledge on this project. Rather than go to PM, I'll continue here, just in case others are following for information.

1. All of my solar instructions show direct connections to the batteries. Would they not charge better with a direct connection? Would they not lose a degree of charging power by being routed through the bus, to the inverter, through the shunt and fuse, and then to the batteries?

2. Except for a LARGE shunt on the negative and LARGE fuse on the positive, the LARGE cables connect directly to the 2800 magnum inverter. Do I install the bus bar cables directly to the lugs on the inverter with the large cables?

[porthole]

Thank you, port, for taking the time to discuss this with me, and having patience with my lack of knowledge on this project. Rather than go to PM, I'll continue here, just in case others are following for information.

1. All of my solar instructions show direct connections to the batteries. Would they not charge better with a direct connection? Would they not lose a degree of charging power by being routed through the bus, to the inverter, through the shunt and fuse, and then to the batteries?

2. Except for a LARGE shunt on the negative and LARGE fuse on the positive, the LARGE cables connect directly to the 2800 magnum inverter. Do I install the bus bar cables directly to the lugs on the inverter with the large cables?

Clev, again I am not a SOLAR expert - yet. Although by the time I start that project I expect to be :D

So take this as it may be.

I do have extensive expeierence in the 12 Volt DC world of cars, truck, boats and RV's

My opinions.

If you are using the proper battery interconnecting cables, and by that I mean either marine grade or welding cable of 2/0 or 4/0 AWG, the voltage drops you might be concerned with would be minimal, minimal to point you probably could not measure it with typical VOM. And even if your meter could read a drop, 4 meters in a row would probably read different.

Any product you may purchase may very well include instructions that proper supply power could only be achieved by wiring directly to the batteries. It is not unusual on boats to perhaps have 3 or 4 dozen marine electronics that "require" direct wiring to the batteries".
Imagine that rats nest!

The other thing to consider is battery service. Why would you want to deal with a dozen extra wires if you have to remove a battery?
Or if you are using lead acid batteries, why subject all those extra wires to the electrolyte?

If it was mine:

Battery ---> #1 battery disconnect ---> fuse ---> shunt ---> inverter

Inverter ---> (the above shunt & fuse) AND #2 battery disconnect ---> bus bar

SOLAR ---> battery disconnect ---> whatever is required in the SOALR circuit (MPPT, etc) ---> battery side of #1battery disconnect

BUS bar ---> as required switchable breakers for higher loads and the trailer systems.

I like the Blue Seas marine breakers. Excellent product, a bit pricey but I have never been disappointed.

Amazon search blue seas 100 amp breaker (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=blue+seas+100+amp+breaker)

I specifically use this version.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-7144-187-Thermal/dp/B0014UJA9W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523200233&sr=8-1&keywords=blue+seas+100+amp+breaker

Examples of circuits I use these breakers for coming off my BUS bar;

80 amp - hydraulic pump, slides and LevelUp
50 amp - Hynautic brake pump
50 amp - feed to the trailers 12 volt systems
30 amp - feed to an industrial battery connector on the side near my docking station. I use this for my 12 macerator pump, mostly for when we get home.

Of course your needs would vary.

The above works for me.
I leave the trailer plugged in pretty much year round only because I do not have SOLAR on this rig.

But if desired I can isolate my batteries or my inverter or my trailer sub systems. Some people prefer the ability to turn off one master switch, for me I like options.

One other item I have not mentioned above is a simple 2" digital LED voltmeter connected to the battery side of the #1 battery switch. This allows me to see the battery state at any time at the batteries. That gauge is mounted in a small box that has a simple push button on off switch.

[porthole]

BUS bars do not specifically have to be a BUS bar.
For example, with my 4 marine switchable breakers I mentioned above, I do not have 4 wires going to the 4 breakers.
I have a 2 AWG wire going to the first one (80 amp) then they are daisy chained.

The picture below is an early version of what I eventually ended up with, but gives you an idea

[clev]

Excellent information, Port, thank you. At age 70, and having done most of my own work on everything, including engine building and 12v wiring, I have basic expertise on a lot of things. Prior to ordering the solar, and instructing my wife on the install, I spent hours reading, and watching videos, but nothing ever addressed the many connection locations that one must perform during various installations. So, I still need to ask occasional questions; thanks again for being there.

[porthole]

Clev - do you go on facebunk?

Look at this thread and look for the DRV Houston wiring PDF.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1746751582289376/1853748104923056/

[clev]

That is an excellent diagram, port, thank you for finding and sharing. I've added them to my MS Electrical folder and printed a copy. My Bus Power Distribution blocks and switchable fuses will be in tomorrow and I can rewire. Except for the buses in the diagram, mine is wired 'almost' like his.

[Chad Heiser]

I have a large (1040 amp hour) battery bank in my trailer. The only wires touching my batteries are the interconnecting 4/0 cables. I have one positive and one negative cable coming from my batteries that go to bus bars. All 12 volt trailer/inverter connections go to those bus bars. It is the simplest way to wire a battery bank and with the proper sized wires for the length involved, there will be no issues with voltage drop/loss.

Since Facebook was mentioned. Here is a link to a Facebook post I made with a full description of my system including pictures and a wiring diagram.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/917299508318543/permalink/1277588748956282/

[clev]

Thank you, Chad. I’ll be re-wiring today.

[clev]

I checked your facebook, Chad; excellent write-up.

[Chad Heiser]

Thank you. I’m happy to be able to help. Let me know if you need anything specific.

[clev]

I thought that I had the problem fixed but I don't; hoping the rewiring will fix it. I have the Magnum 2800 set up with ME-RC Remote and BMK. My new batteries go through the complete charging procedure, read 12.8/12.9 volts and the ME-RC will read full charge. But item #2 SOC on the ME-RC will read in the 50% range and the #3 Ah I/O will read -300's. I don't know how a battery can read full charge, display 12.9 volts but be down more than half of the amp hour capacity. That is confusing the heck out of me.

[porthole]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/917299508318543/permalink/1277588748956282/





:confused:

That's the FB group I got banned from before I even joined !!!

Can't see the posts.

[clev]

I downloaded the diagram; do you want me to send it to you?

[porthole]

I downloaded the diagram; do you want me to send it to you?



Chad's ?
He sent it to me awhile ago, thanks.

[clev]

Port, I've been trying not to, but inquiring minds wanna know, LOL. What did you do to get banned?

[porthole]

Port, I've been trying not to, but inquiring minds wanna know, LOL. What did you do to get banned?




Not much. First off, I was new to using facebunk (again, hadn't used it in years) and just did what I thought was expected, at least be honest.

Private group, stipulations are you have to be or will be within 6 months a DRV owner.

There are three questions posted when requesting to join the group. Since we didn't have a DRV I answered as I saw fit.

Now keep in mind, someone on the DRV group was questioning my wife as to why she joined the group. That someone is a diehard Heartland owner and club member and has stated they have no intention of buying a DRV.
And at the time we were the New Jersey Chapter Leaders for Heartland. As we had told very few people about our change of direction, I didn't want it getting out that way.

Anyway I answered the questions, see the picture.

"Closed group for DRV owners and prospective owners. Although there are people on this group that have no intention of buying a DRV"

There is nothing un-truthful, misleading or disingenuous about that statement.

At the time there were/are two die hard Heartland owners, who have stated many times how happy they are with their Heartlands (and good for them), even going on mentioning how they compared a DRV and a Landmark side by side and felt the Landmark was a much better RV (excessive Kool-aid in my opinion, but to each their own)

There were also two Heartland employees on the group, neither of which have ever owned a RV.
(There is also at least one DRV employees now on the group as well)

So I was accused of being rude and un-friendly, why would I want to join and then got a flat out - you will never be allowed to join.

Tried to respond the group 'owner' through the channels, he accused me of "back door" contacting him (?)
Then he blocked me from even seeing the group page.
Then I sent a message to the group admins, one of which turns out to be his wife.

He scolded me for contacting his wife.

Eventually I was offered the chance to join with this the following disclaimer "I talked it over with my moderators and I’ll give you a try with one strike not three"

I declined - not interested in any special treatment like that.

Maybe I put too much into any of the group's requirements. I thought you actually had to be an owner or were going to be in 6 months or you were not allowed-kicked out.
I expect my wife to get kicked off any day now, we are 7 months out from our original DRV order and we still do not have it. And she joined before we ordered (I think)


Since my back and forth with the group owner there have been group changes. You are now allowed on as a former owner, which is good, since the owner no longer has a DRV.
There is also a special "friends" section now.

Even with all the the BS, I let it go.

I offered - sent a copy of the 2018 model year changes brochure before they were public to the group. I got the the tart response "Rolling Retreats keeps me informed on updates"

Nothing against Rolling Retreats (and they have offered far above to us from what I would expect since we did not order from them), but RR didn't supply the brochure I had at the time.

And as a last good will gesture - I noticed one day the group owner was down the street from my firehouse (he FB checks in wherever he goes).
I extended an invitation that the next time he was in town, contact me and we'll invite him over for coffee and if at the right time a free lunch or dinner.

I suppose I got to use the Heartland forum of which I am pretty active with. And as far as forums go, it is probably the best on the net.
Never bothered with heartland facebook groups, as there is no real value and there are too many.

Same with DRV. There are at least 4 FB groups, and I am part of 3 of them and at least 3 internet forums. Just too much time that can be spent searching trying to keep up with so many different venues.

But then again, maybe it is just me. When I opened the conversation about so many different net forums and FB groups I got chastised for that as well.

So, I've had my two cups of coffee, time to go do something useful around the house while I still wait for an update about our trailer.

[clev]

Wow; what an answer. And here I thought it would be something simple; like giving wiring advice without 40 years of experience and an engineering degree. Or something like that, LOL.

[porthole]

Well - I don't have an engineering degree. In fact I don't even have a college degree.
Didn't go to college until the early 90's and then only took 3 courses before I was not allowed to go further with taking the entrance testing.

But, I do have a degree in Auto-Diesel technology - or at least what the technology was in 1978 or 9

And I do have 40+ years expeierence - which now makes feel a bit older - thanks Clev :-)

[clev]

If you’re interested, here’s mine;

https://www.facebook.com/100003156700359

[porthole]

I see we have an in common theme on motorcycle colors

[clev]

Yes; but I had to sell her in ‘16 due to my disability. I wept as the guy towed her away.

[clev]

I finally got everything finished today. I installed a 4 gauge welders cable from the positive terminal of the Magnum 2800, through a 60 amp fused switch, to an 8-post power distribution bus bar. All the positive cables that were on the positive terminal of the last battery in the series, were moved to the bus bar. I did the same thing with the negative side except did not use a fused switch. Quite a few of the cables had to be trimmed and then with zip ties and routing, cable management cleaned everything up pretty good.

[porthole]

What is the yellow thing in the top right corner?

[clev]

Good morning, port. The yellow thing is the cover for the 8-post bussbar.

[clev]

I just checked my batteries, and even though the trailer is plugged in, battery voltage is 12.4 volts. I DON’T GET IT! I’ve double checked everything, every wire, there is nothing on in the trailer, and yet the SOC rarely gets above 60 and voltage is never consistent. To my way of thinking, plugged in with nothing on, the SOC should be 100% and voltage 12.8 ~ 13.0. I am getting ready to read my books again, for the fourth time.

[wingnut60]

clev,
One item that may be confusing you is the AH capacity--when you series 6-volts to 12-volts, it does not double the AHs. You still only have the AH of one 6 volt battery when series as 12-volts. I have 4x300AH Lifelines, but in series/parallel, so don't have 1200AH, only 600. At least I think that is right...
Joe

[clev]

Yes, Joe, you are correct, and I am aware. I have six 6-volt 220 a/h life lines wired in series/parallel for a total of 660 a/h. New, just purchased last month. Do you have, or are you familiar with the ME-RC controller?

[wingnut60]

clev,
Yes, have the ME-RC but definitely not familiar with its operation. Barely can remember when to switch from inverter to shore power thru trailer.

Wish I knew more to help you, maybe Chad will take note.

In your pics, I only see 2 of the six batts--are the other four on both sides of the trailer? If so, maybe some glitch in how you have them seriesed/paralleled?

[clev]

I’ve gotten familiar thru use. I’m reading the books again and been thru the menu a dozen times. I’m now changing Final from ‘Multi’ to ‘float’ and battery type from ‘custom’ to AGM 1.

[Chad Heiser]

Sometimes the BMK “brain” needs to be reset in order to start calculating things properly when new stuff is added to the system. Also, every negative cable in your system needs to be on the load side of the BMK shunt. There should be no negative cables for any loads connected to any of the batteries anywhere. If any of your house loads, including your 12 volt power panel, Jack’s, slides, etc are connected directly to the batteries in the door side battery compartment (as DRV does from the factory), then the power they are drawing is not correctly calculated by the BMK.

[clev]

Thank you, Chad. That’s the job that I just finished. I had about 7 positive and negative cables connected directly to the last and first batteries, respectively, and have moved all to positive and negative bus bars. The bus bars are attached directly to the lugs on the inverter. I modified some settings yesterday afternoon and will check results after breakfast.