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traveler
11-22-2017, 08:09 AM
I have a 2005 TK3 and the slides and jacks have worked trouble free since I bought it new. 12 years. No leaks. The RV is only used about 6 weeks a year.

But in the past year the door slide has begun, only very occasionally, to push out slowly. Comes in fine. That is, smoothly and strongly. When moving in slow, I can usually open the kitchen slide a few inches, then go back to the door slide and that slide moves much faster.

So, why the occasional (sometimes stopping) slow operating (going out) door slide? If normal speed to open door slide is, say, 45 seconds, slow would be 2 or 3 minutes.

wingnut60
11-22-2017, 03:00 PM
Had the same model for 10 years, never had that happen. Sounds like something in the valving not right. You have checked to be sure the fluid level is correct, and no leaks in the pump area?
Joe

porkchop
11-22-2017, 10:09 PM
Lippert recommends changing the fluid every 3 yrs to eliminate water. Type A transmission fluid. Might try that.

Bill

oldbird
11-24-2017, 08:59 AM
What is the procedure for changing the fluid?

porkchop
11-24-2017, 10:15 AM
Use a suction device of your choice to extract as much fluid as possible from the reservoir. Then add clean fluid to within 1/2" of the top. Then cycle everything several times to get new fluid to most places. Messy job but does not take long.

Bill

Cummins12V98
11-24-2017, 11:31 AM
Use a suction device of your choice to extract as much fluid as possible from the reservoir. Then add clean fluid to within 1/2" of the top. Then cycle everything several times to get new fluid to most places. Messy job but does not take long.

Bill


I would add have all slides in and landing gear up when doing this. Bill I know you know this but others may not.

oldbird
11-24-2017, 11:40 AM
My oil is probably nine years old, I'll have to do this. I might even do it a couple times to get most of the old oil out. Thanks

wingnut60
11-24-2017, 05:45 PM
That's about the only way to change it out--getting all slides in ought to have the fluid level at the highest--suction out as much as possible--add new fluid--cycle all slides several times to distribute the new oil. Repeat once ought to get the % of new to around 50+%

porkchop
11-24-2017, 06:41 PM
I called Lippert several years ago and told the engineer that I had a riding mower with a very similar system for motivation and turning the blades. I said that I can run it for hours in the heat and never have to change the oil. How come I have to change it in a system that gets used rarely and never gets hot? He said that is why. Trans fluid will attract moisture and these systems never get hot enough to burn it off. My mower does.
Makes sense.

Bill

Dapperdan
11-24-2017, 07:26 PM
On a similar note, over the years I've owned 4 Goldwings, Honda recommends changing brake, clutch and fork fluids at intervals. All "sealed" systems but still needing replacement! Changing slide/hydraulic fluid sounds plausible to me.

Dan

oldbird
11-24-2017, 11:01 PM
You guys are convincing! Is there a 'best' trans fluid A? Synthetic or conventional?

wingnut60
11-25-2017, 04:38 AM
You may get differing opinions on what to use, but any automatic trans fluid should work--synthetic would seem overkill to me, since there won't be any temp problems. But it won't hurt, either.
Some have found it beneficial to add 'fork oil' from the motorcycle world as a 'stiction' reducer--supposed to help??

Cummins12V98
11-25-2017, 05:51 AM
I used AMZ/OIL Universal ATF 100% Synthetic. Can't say it works any better but so far no front landing gear issues.

porthole
11-25-2017, 08:55 AM
Trans fluid will attract moisture and these systems never get hot enough to burn it off.



"Hydroscopic" trans oil issues were mostly back in the mid 70's with GM's Dexron ATF. And it was the additives causing the problem, not the actual ATF.

On a similar note, over the years I've owned 4 Goldwings, Honda recommends changing brake, clutch and fork fluids at intervals. All "sealed" systems but still needing replacement! Changing slide/hydraulic fluid sounds plausible to me.



Although brake systems are mostly sealed, DOT 3-4 brake fluid is very hydroscopic. Just removing the covers to check levels can start to contaminate the fluid. That is the reason manufacturers always recommend the use of a new sealed bottle of brake fluid when flushing or adding fluid.

wingnut60
11-26-2017, 03:34 AM
Being a little picky here, but I believe the term for a substance's adsorption/attraction of water is Hygroscopic.

And over a period of time, some moisture in the air-filled portion of the fluid reservoir may condense and allow water to contact the oil. In the ten years I owned my '05, this never became a problem--never a concern with the hydraulic fluid, just the gear packs wearing out. I think I remember adding about a pint of
ATF over that time frame.
But I did have a ram give out while at Paul Cross's place and I am sure he had to replace fluid at that time.

porthole
11-26-2017, 10:10 PM
Being a little picky here, but I believe the term for a substance's adsorption/attraction of water is Hygroscopic



AH yup and forum software apparently doesn't allow edits after a period of time.
Hygro - Hydro - iPhone picks up both spellings as correct. :rolleyes:

wingnut60
11-27-2017, 06:55 AM
Seems a little odd that it isn't hydro-xxxx, most everything else to do with water uses hydro-xxxx.
I got corrected long time ago is only reason I know.

Joe

Rockyhud
12-05-2017, 02:20 PM
Glad I came across this post as I'm quite sure the original owner of our 5th wheel didn't know about this and never changed the fluid, not to mention that I'm quite sure the reservoir doesn't have the requisite amount of fluid in it now. BTW, is there a specific auto-tranny fluid to use? By that I'm referring to brand (GM, Mopar, Ford, etc.) because they each seem to have "special" ingredients best suited for their respective trannies.

Not to hijack this thread, but our hydraulic system also has some leakage occurring (droplets collecting at the lower-most outside curve of some lines, red fluid visible around some connections and between the bottom of the reservoir and plywood panel it all sets on as well as in the plywood itself). There's even some in the drip pan below. I've not found any definitive info about how to go about tightening the threaded connectors. There are several connection leaks, from the ones that connect the pump to what I refer to as a manifold or perhaps a spool valve to where the various hydraulic lines connect. Would it be a correct presumption that I should start tightening these, starting with the connections farthest from the pump and gradually work my way toward the pump? Does this make sense or is there a better method to follow? Any precautions I should be aware of?

I want to do the work myself so I know more about the RV and its systems. I also want to do the work so I know how well it's been done so I don't have to find out the hard way that someone else over-tightened connections and stripped the threads, making a bigger problem, now or later.

oldbird
12-05-2017, 07:03 PM
I found mine dripping so I checked the connections for tightness. All were tight. I believe the drips are from the crimps, I'm not worrying about mine unless they get worse.

Dapperdan
12-05-2017, 07:20 PM
We had a little bit of that "seepage" thing going on before our visit to Lippert for the front jack replacement too. It wasn't real bad but the techs at Lippert said my fittings were a bit loose hence the leakage. I was VERY leery to tighten those fittings for fear of snapping them off! I had called Lippert a year or so ago to ask about the leaking and was told to be VERY careful if I tried tightening them.

Good luck with your attempt.

Since our replacement job I haven't had any leaks of any kind.

Dan

wingnut60
12-06-2017, 07:45 AM
Rockyhud,
One thing to be sure to do when tightening the connections, is to use a backup wrench and do not just try to tighten the hose on the fitting. Use a paper towel to wipe down everything before working--then you will know if the tightening works by using the paper towel again. A white paper towel will immediately let you know if there is any oil seeping out--pretty hard to see around the connections. Good quality open-end wrenches will help--having cheap Harbor Freight units will many times allow slips and will round the wrench surfaces.

Rockyhud
12-06-2017, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the advise, guys. Dan nailed it with my concerns about stripping the threads or snapping off connectors/fittings and Joe's advise about using backup wrenches (and good quality ones) is what I intend to do as well. Great advise for anyone else attempting this.

The reason I know there are so many leaks is while checking out the RV before the trip home, I used clean white paper towels to wipe off as much leaked fluid as possible after I showed the seller the problem. At that point he called his RV tech guy who suggested we run the slides in and out as well as the landing gear and rear stabilizers up and down, all while watching for any new seepage. Almost immediately I saw red fluid seeping from the pump connection furthest from our position - one that connects to the manifold/spool valve. It appeared at the top of that connector then ran down, becoming more apparent as it did. Once we got the RV home and I went around checking everything again, that's when I noticed more seepage and less fluid in the reservoir. On this last note, with the slides all out and the RV having gone through its auto-leveling routine at home, the fluid level is just at the bottom edge of a black line on the reservoir label - what I presume to be a reference for how much fluid should be in it. As I recall, when checking out the system earlier with the seller and under these same conditions, the fluid level was just at the top edge of this black line. This seems to be excessive leakage to me.

I still intend on going through the system and CAREFULLY tighten all connectors. I think the best method is starting with connections furthest from the pump and working through all connectors toward the pump and reservoir. I didn't see any alternate ideas so I'm presuming this is the best method. It's not going to be easy as there isn't much room in there for two hands and wrenches, but it's gotta be done. Hopefully the weather this weekend will cooperate with warmer temps - too cold now with highs in the low 30s today and high 20s tomorrow.

As for what fluid to refill with, does anyone know if it requires any specific brand or type ATF? I read earlier some use pretty much any universal type and others use synthetic.

Cummins12V98
12-06-2017, 12:13 PM
Fluid level should be checked with ALL slides in and landing gear up. With everything in setup position the level can vary depending on amount of slides.

wingnut60
12-06-2017, 12:47 PM
10-4 on the not much room to work.
Any ATF will work, but while at it, full synthetic is probably the way to go--Cummins is using Amsoil and that is a good product to use.
If you come across a line section that won't stop leaking, if possible, remove the section and take it to a hydraulics hose shop--they will make you an identical one of much better quality than Lipperts.
I could never stop the fluid from being present on the connections in the pump area in my '05, yet only had to add extra fluid once in 10 years of use. So don't get too upset if you can't completely dry up the connections, unless it is causing problems with operations. And if I recall correctly, do not use a sealant on the fittings.

Rockyhud
12-06-2017, 02:26 PM
Thanks again guys. Good things to consider and keep in mind.

BTW, on a different but somewhat related topic, I tried emailing DRV Sales and Parts today, using the email links posted on the DRV website to see if they could provide me a breakdown of brands and maybe part numbers for suspension parts on our rig. The email came back immediately as undeliverable. I then called DRV - their phone number is still the same - and after quickly explaining what happened with the email, I was informed they have combined the DRV and Cruiser RV Parts Dept email to one email address. So, if anyone needs to email DRV for parts, their new email address is "dcrvparts@cruiserrv.com" (without quotes). I resent the failed email from earlier with the new email address. It got sent and I got an acknowledgement email back, saying they'd contact me shortly. Hopefully this might help others who need to contact DRV Parts via email.

wingnut60
12-06-2017, 02:40 PM
Do you have leaf springs or the Morryde IS?

wingnut60
12-06-2017, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the parts contact email--over the years, the results from Doubletree/DRV has been all over the board on how well you get results from them....

anijet
12-06-2017, 03:21 PM
On aircraft hydraulic systems we often used aluminum conical seals to seal leaking flared fittings. Google Seco conical seals or Earl's Performance Conical Seals. Install and don't over tighten. Will stop leaks unless there is a major problem with either fitting that requires replacement of the fitting or hose end.

Rockyhud
12-06-2017, 04:49 PM
Joe, our rig has leaf springs and Trailair Center Point air suspension. I know the wheels don't have nearly the wheel travel as MORryde IS, but during our trip from FL to CO with the "new" rig I was pretty pleased with how smooth it towed, especially when encountering some bridges that don't have smooth transitions at the ends. Any particular reason you ask?

Anijet, thanks for the tip on Seco and Earl's seals. I will definitely check these out. Just might be the ticket if tightening doesn't quite work.

wingnut60
12-07-2017, 07:34 AM
I just asked because if it was Morryde, they are very easy to get info from on their equipment.
I had the Morryde RE (Rubber Enhanced) center suspension on my '05--did a good job til the rubber spring split on one side--but after all the miles and 2 AK trips, I think it held up well. Not familiar with the Trailair.

Mike2338
12-12-2017, 06:53 PM
Rocky,
I may have missed someone else responding but when refilling the reservoir you should be within 1/4 inch of the top with all jacks and slides in.
Also, add motorcycle front fork oil to the mix. There have been issues with 'Popping noise' while parked. Adding the fork oil eliminated the noise for me.
I also have a 2011 and have seepage. I am glad to have gained some additional knowledge.
I will have to wait for the Spring to work on mine though. Staying home this winter and it is currently 12F and 0 windchill!
Let us know how it goes.

m

Rockyhud
12-12-2017, 09:21 PM
Hi Mike, and thanks for the tips and info. Interesting comment about fork oil. We haven't owned and been in this RV much yet so we haven't heard any popping sounds coming from the hydraulics but I'll definitely keep my ears peeled for any hints of them. I still have yet to get back to seeing if I can tighten any fittings/connections but the temps have been on the cool to cold side here as well, not to mention that I basically have weekend time to do much work on it. To provide some perspective on the leaks I'm dealing with I attached some photos (below).

I also thought about the process of how I need to do this and do it safely. That said, I've determined I need to hitch the rig to my truck so I can retract the slides and retract all hydraulic jacks. This is not just to get all the fluid back into the reservoir, but also to take the weight off the jacks. If I were to loosen any jack fittings with the RV weight still applied this could release pressure needed to keep it extended and cause an imbalance in the rig. Also, letting pressure be released like that can be harmful - that kind of high pressure can inject hydraulic fluid into human flesh pretty easy if you get hands, fingers or other body parts in the stream - not a good thing at all.

In the meantime, and I'm trying not to take this thread on a tangent, I've also been trying to find out precisely what hubs, bearings, spindles and disc brake rotors were installed on this rig. After we got home with it I discovered the driver side rear hub has some slop or play in it (about 1/8" or so at the tire's outermost sidewall) that isn't apparent in the other hubs, thankfully, but that has also consumed some of the time with this RV. I really don't want to move it any more until this issue is resolve. I'll leave it at that in this thread and may start another thread about this a little later.

wingnut60
12-13-2017, 08:06 AM
Steve,
I believe that in '11, DRV was still installing the NevRLube bearings on the 8k axles. If so, these bearing are non-serviceable---they are a unit and sealed. Replacement only, available from Dexter or eTrailer.com---the 50mm larger units. And you CANNOT just replace the NevRLube with a standard bearing, the spindle is different for them.
The 'play' you noticed is the only way to check for wear on these bearings--suggest that you go to Dexter website and look for the NevRLube section for their recommendations.
Joe

Rockyhud
12-13-2017, 02:02 PM
Joe, thanks for the details on the bearings. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that even though our rig has Lippert 8K axles, if the hubs do have NevRLube bearings these are sourced only from Dexter or eTrailer.com? I won't be surprised if this is the case, as I got a response from another online source for RV hubs, bearings, brakes and such, and he told me it's next to impossible for them and other RV parts sellers to determine what any RV was built with as the manufacturers haven't standardized much in these areas, at least not yet. He went on to say the only reliable way to know is to take the hubs and brakes off the rig, then you see what you have to work with. With the other stuff I have to do around the "homestead", and factoring in winter weather and working my regular job (still), this may have to wait until spring time. I count my blessings though - at least we're not stranded somewhere away from home with this issue.

wingnut60
12-13-2017, 02:51 PM
Here is what I know about the bearings/axles on the Suites back then--
The axles should be Dexter, altho somewhere along the line, Lippert bought part of Dexter and I don't recall what that involved and when it happened. There WILL be a tag on the axles, but by now it may be lost or just unreadable. If you call Dexter and give them your VIN, they MAY have a record of it.
The Nev-R-Lube bearings were a sure winner until some people began to have failures without warning--several reports on this forum in past posts/threads. It can be quite disastrous when it happens. The biggest problem is knowing ahead of time when the bearing is going out--and your note of 'play' leads me to think it is time to worry about that one and the others also. The only way to check them is the vertical movement--'play'--that you have noted.
The bearings come in 2 sizes and you would want the 50mm larger one for a replacement. Problem in this is the bearings are pressed into the brake hub and basically needs an arbor press to remove/install them properly. I would take this off-season time to research and locate a competent spring/axle shop that knows these bearings and can do the work. You may find the replacement bearings from several sources, not just the 2 I mentioned. Might try to make sure they are US-made, and not the Chinese ones.
I had the NRLs on my '05 and did not have any trouble, altho I replaced them because I had bent one of the axles.
If you are anywhere near LaGrange, IN, I highly recommend Paul Cross for this type of work--he was originally with Doubletree and went out on his own. CrossRV.com

If you want complete peace of mind---contact MorRyde.com to get a quote on getting the Morryde Independent Suspension installed--this is now standard equipment on new DRV trailers.

If I can help any other way, contact me at joedobry@gmail.com

Joe

Rockyhud
12-13-2017, 04:44 PM
Thank you SO much, Joe. You've been a GREAT help. I will take your advice and call Dexter and if that doesn't work out I'll call Lippert. The axles do have data plates (stickers) showing Lippert information and such. From your experience it sounds like it would be best to plan on replacing all 4 hub bearings (makes sense since they're all the same age and mileage). I have a 12-ton hydraulic press in my garage that has come in handy at times, like replacing u-joints in driveshafts and pressing wheel studs into the front hubs for my truck (changed out the OEM unit bearings for old school lockout hubs and spindles).

I know what your saying about US vs. Chinese bearings - paying a little more for quality parts in these areas is money well spent. I don't relish the idea of doing this work and certainly don't want to have to do it again later because of low quality parts.

UPDATE: Just looking online it may be easier and just a little costlier to buy hubs with bearings already installed, provided I'm looking at the right parts on the Kodiak parts site. I called this afternoon but they were closed for the day so I'll try tomorrow or Friday to see if they can help.

oldbird
12-13-2017, 07:01 PM
That would be great Steve. I would buy one just to have a spare with me.

wingnut60
12-14-2017, 03:38 AM
Guessing you already have disc brakes? If you are getting hubs/bearings from Kodiak, ask him for a break on bearings as they told me they were trying to close them out of inventory.

porthole
12-14-2017, 08:59 AM
DRV actually used nev'r lube bearings on these heavy trailers?

porkchop
12-14-2017, 09:30 AM
Yes they did, because they were heavy trailers. And the vast majority of us had no problems, ever.

Bill

anijet
12-14-2017, 09:34 AM
Yes they did, because they were heavy trailers. And the vast majority of us had no problems, ever.

BillYep, See here:
http://www.5thwheelforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1499

porthole
12-14-2017, 10:37 AM
When I had my MOR/ryde IS installed (07/2009) they specifically recommended against the Never lube bearings bearings with rigs over 14K.
They also recommended against using oil in the hubs as well, even though every DRV coming through the shop at the time had oil bath hubs.

Never lube bearings - never lube shackles - Kantleak valves .......

anijet
12-14-2017, 11:06 AM
I had Mor/ryde IS installed a year ago and had them install the old fashion "pack yourself" bearings. Easy to maintain and inspect. With proper maintenance they will run almost forever. The Nev-R-lub can't be inspected other than a looseness or wobble test. By the time that test fails it will have been too late. All you can do is replace the bearings at a predetermined interval or take you chances.

Cummins12V98
12-14-2017, 11:44 AM
"The Nev-R-lub can't be inspected other than a looseness or wobble test."

Not true. I asked Kevin at Kodiak about checking for wear. He said "look at the back side you will see a small amount of lube when it starts becoming more obvious replace the bearing before it fails."

porthole
12-14-2017, 11:44 AM
Bearings options and disc brakes at MOR/ryde:

Never lube bearings - Dexter proprietary parts
Conventional bearings - standard bearings and seals, Kodiak parts and GM brake pads

Rockyhud
12-14-2017, 11:45 AM
In answer to Joe's question about brakes, yes, this rig has Kodiak disc brakes. The caliper has "250" cast into the inboard side. The axles have a Lippert "data plate" (sticker actually) showing it to be 8K rated. And thanks for your suggestion to inquire about a discount to "help" them with their clearance on these. On that note, it makes me wonder where we might get these parts in the future if they're not going to supply them any more.

I'm planning to call Kodiak today to see what they recommend and can provide. I'm going to pose the question about parts availability when I do and will give an update afterward. Sure wish the rig used separate inner and outer bearing like Leo got - much more reliable and durable in general plus he's more likely to find them in auto parts stores and elsewhere. The reliability and durability factors are why, several years back, I converted my 4x4 truck's front axle unit bearings to "old school" manual lockout hubs and spindles that have much larger bearings and are spaced much further apart, plus I can get replacements (if needed) almost anywhere. This has been one of the best "investments" I've made for this truck.

anijet
12-14-2017, 11:47 AM
"The Nev-R-lub can't be inspected other than a looseness or wobble test."

Not true. I asked Kevin at Kodiak about checking for wear. He said "look at the back side you will see a small amount of lube when it starts becoming more obvious replace the bearing before it fails."

So on a 7,000 mile cross country tour how often do you recommend crawling under the trailer to inspect?

Rockyhud
12-14-2017, 12:06 PM
Based on what I've seen on our rig, or more accurately NOT seen, I have to say the advice from Kodiak saying you'll see a small amount of lube leaking on the backside doesn't ALWAYS hold true. The backside of the wheel needing repairs is completely devoid of ANY leaked contaminants or evidence there ever have been. Like I mentioned earlier, I had no clue there was anything wrong with it until I got the rig home and checked the wheels when the stabilizers lifted that side's wheels off the ground. The only other unrecognized hint was the light screeching sound I heard now and then during some tight turns on our trip home with it. For me I think the wheel wobble test may be the most reliable indicator.

wingnut60
12-14-2017, 01:19 PM
Not sure about the Kevin advice, but when the mfg tells you how to check for wear, I tend to listen to them.

And as to problems--I am with Bill, the vast majority of the rigs that came with the NRLs never had a problem.

As to the oil lube hubs, sure is sad when the trucking industry can use them for millions of miles with minimum problems, and DRV can't put them together for several months without leaking.....it ain't the design, it's the DRV method of buying cheap/not testing mods.

Cummins12V98
12-14-2017, 01:25 PM
So on a 7,000 mile cross country tour how often do you recommend crawling under the trailer to inspect?

I don't know just when you think about it! I would say every 3,000 or so.

I bought a rotor with studs and bearing from Kodiak just to have on hand for my 07.5 MS. With a TrailerAid Plus it's less than 1 hour to R&R.

https://i.imgur.com/DLOD1A7l.jpg

Cummins12V98
12-14-2017, 01:28 PM
The oil bath system is the BEST hands down, it's just whether there are QUALITY parts installed.

I may go to that system if I can source the parts.

Dapperdan
12-14-2017, 05:58 PM
The oil bath system is the BEST hands down, it's just whether there are QUALITY parts installed.

I may go to that system if I can source the parts.

I agree with Ron, oil bath is best, however while we were at MORryde last summer getting the risers the techs STRONGLY urged me to switch to the old fashioned hand re-pack system. I "caved" because of the comment the one tech said, as long as the wheels get spun once in a while you're OK but most people don't remember to give those wheels a few spins every now and then while sitting and the bearings dry out at the top and the problems begin. I didn't want to take the chance not remembering to spin my wheels. It's not that hard to pull the hubs and inspect the bearings. :p

Dan

Rockyhud
12-14-2017, 10:55 PM
I got a chance to call Kodiak late this afternoon and talked with Jesse about the bearings and hubs. He echoed the same remarks as others, that he can't tell which type is installed just based on having 8K Lippert axles and Kodiak 250 disc brakes. I need to at least see what the spindle cap looks like, then he can tell me. He also said the Nev-R-Lube bearings were phased out in 2010, with a switch to separate inner and outer bearings (maybe oil bath hubs or ones with greased bearings?) and with our RV having a manufacture date in 2010 it's on the cusp of having one or the other. I also got some relief when I asked him the ball park cost of new hubs with bearings and rotors and he said about $110 or so most likely. I'm hoping the weather here allows me to check out the type of hubs this weekend so I can get the correct parts ordered next week.

wingnut60
12-15-2017, 04:32 AM
Whatever you end up doing, get the torque numbers from Kodiak for the caliper bolts--several instances of the calipers coming loose and ruining the rotor.
I think you will find you have the NRLs on your axle, not the oil bath. Easy to see which is which with the hubcap off.

Rockyhud
12-15-2017, 09:46 AM
Thanks for the torque tip. Weather and time permitting I'm going to pop the hubcap off this weekend. Sure hoping it doesn't have NRL hubs, especially after hearing from Kodiak they've been phased out and will get harder and harder to find as time goes.

oldbird
12-15-2017, 09:53 AM
I'm following along Steve! Just a side note my NRL hubs on my Travel Supreme lasted nine years and were still going strong when I sold it. I'm not talking about driving three miles to the local campground for a weekend and back. I'm talking about 10-12 thousand miles across country every year. Good Luck!

porthole
12-15-2017, 01:56 PM
people don't remember to give those wheels a few spins every now and then while sitting and the bearings dry out at the top and the problems begin. I didn't want to take the chance not remembering to spin my wheels.



If it was possible that oil of the oil bath lube did drain and dry the bearing, 1/2 spin would take care of it, just getting your trailer hooked up and moved a few feet would get the bearings lubed.

I have yet to see anything more then internet rumors with regards to properly maintained oil bath (typically filled with gear oil) hubs having rusty bearings just because someone didn't rotate the wheels.
How is it that moisture got into the sealed system and rusted out all these bearings?

The leakage that has been seen on DRV's with the oil bath hubs might have something to do with the plastic caps (and o-rings) and-or incorrect torquing of those caps.


new hubs with bearings and rotors and he said about $110 or so



If that is true, it is a very good price.

I bought a Kodiak hub and rotor (no bearings, but included seals) this past August from eTrailer for $123.
The same package from Kodiak was $275

Note, the oil bath hubs require different seals if using oil.

Cummins12V98
12-16-2017, 06:40 AM
I agree with Ron, oil bath is best, however while we were at MORryde last summer getting the risers the techs STRONGLY urged me to switch to the old fashioned hand re-pack system. I "caved" because of the comment the one tech said, as long as the wheels get spun once in a while you're OK but most people don't remember to give those wheels a few spins every now and then while sitting and the bearings dry out at the top and the problems begin. I didn't want to take the chance not remembering to spin my wheels. It's not that hard to pull the hubs and inspect the bearings. :p

Dan

I have to say the "drying out" comment is really a joke! I would have asked them how many bearings have actually gone bad or is it the fact the caps and poor quality seals leaked?

Cummins12V98
12-16-2017, 06:42 AM
Whatever you end up doing, get the torque numbers from Kodiak for the caliper bolts--several instances of the calipers coming loose and ruining the rotor.
I think you will find you have the NRLs on your axle, not the oil bath. Easy to see which is which with the hubcap off.


The biggie is to use BLUE Loctite. DRV says RED but that is a knee jerk over reaction to some bolts coming loose. Most likely because no Loctite was used to begin with.

Dapperdan
12-16-2017, 09:36 AM
"I have to say the "drying out" comment is really a joke! I would have asked them how many bearings have actually gone bad or is it the fact the caps and poor quality seals leaked?"

In hind sight Ron I wish I would've! My bad....... But while I was at DRV and taking their tour, the sales guy (or whatever he was) told us oil bath hubs were no longer available period because Dexter would NOT allow them used. Their words not mine. Then last summer when at MORryde those guys strongly suggested I switch. I decided to make the switch, that simple. I had NO problems with oil leaking out but one concern I had that I brought up to MORryde was the fact that I was having a "slight" moisture problem with the front axel. On just the front I could see the oil turning milky (both sides), I drained and replaced the oil twice. It was confusing to me, I had water somehow leaking in but I had NO oil seeping out! Inner and outer seals looked intact to me. Since changing to grease I haven't had any moisture. Maybe I had bad seals on the front axel and MORryde changed them out I don't know, they didn't look bad to me.

Dan

Rockyhud
12-17-2017, 03:47 PM
Saturday the weather was decent and I had time to dig into this. Based on what I see with the hub's grease cap removed I believe we have NRL hubs and bearings. Why this one failed I don't know but due to seeing what looks like evidence of moisture infiltration I'm guessing the seal(s) failed and allowed wetness inside which could have contributed to its demise. I'll be contacting Kodiak first thing tomorrow to see what I can get and when. The photo attached shows exactly what I found inside - I hadn't even wiped anything clean at this point.

wingnut60
12-17-2017, 04:01 PM
Yes, that is the NRL bearing--forgot to mention the need for a huge socket, 1 7/16" maybe? And snap ring pliers?
If you are into replacing with new ones, and you can be sure of getting US-made--do all 4 for peace of mind about them for next several years.
My luck with the NRls in my '05 would lead me to keep them if sure of replacement quality--and, of course, if you wanted to change the bearing style then you will need new axles...and hubs, and...?? So, much less costly to stay with them--the ones you have are 6 years old, so probably get 6 more out of a new set....

Rockyhud
12-17-2017, 04:07 PM
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too - get enough to replace all of them. Even though I would prefer the oil bath type, the cost of changing axles is just too costly. I'll just stay with NRLs and hope they stay good for a long time.

anijet
12-17-2017, 04:29 PM
I'd say you are extremely lucky you made it home. That bearing doesn't have but a few miles left before catastrophic failure.

Edit: After looking at the picture again that bearing has completely failed. It just hasn't departed the axle yet. I wouldn't be surprised if the axle is hurt.

Rockyhud
12-17-2017, 04:59 PM
Agree with being lucky it didn't completely fail before getting home. The whole trip home we prayed God would get us home safely and with everything intact, and it appears we were blessed. I'm hoping the axle isn't damaged and thinking it hasn't been, at least at this time. The reasoning is, when I grab the tire and do the wiggle test and when I spin the wheel, the inner bearing race shows no movement whatsoever - only the outer bearing race wobbles or moves. I assure you I will be checking the condition of the axle once I get the failed hub off. I've seen pics and read numerous threads of NRLs failing and taking out LOTS of equipment and causing LOTS of damage doing so. I don't want to be "that guy" when an NRL does fail.

wingnut60
12-18-2017, 06:40 AM
Whatever you do later, if you ever change the wheels out, be sure to stay with a '0' offset wheel--going to more offset will add leverage to the relatively small bearing surface and lead to early failure. Dexter lists a max offset to be used in the NRL instructions.

Cummins12V98
12-18-2017, 08:28 AM
Saturday the weather was decent and I had time to dig into this. Based on what I see with the hub's grease cap removed I believe we have NRL hubs and bearings. Why this one failed I don't know but due to seeing what looks like evidence of moisture infiltration I'm guessing the seal(s) failed and allowed wetness inside which could have contributed to its demise. I'll be contacting Kodiak first thing tomorrow to see what I can get and when. The photo attached shows exactly what I found inside - I hadn't even wiped anything clean at this point.

That looks very normal to me, not sure what looks bad? Be sure to get new wheel hub caps.

Rockyhud
12-19-2017, 11:04 AM
OK, here's the latest. I've been in touch with Jesse Meldrum at Kodiak about the hubs. He too confirmed ours are NRL (he referred to them as NVR) and gave me some insight into options. I asked about converting to hubs that use conventional inner and outer bearings, to get away from NRL type, and he said the axles are different between the two types, having different spindles. I would have to change out axles entirely to do so.

He went on to tell me I or anyone else with NRL type hubs and bearings will have to change axles when the inventory of NRL parts is depleted, probably in the next year. Once they run out of inventory they will not manufacture XL parts any more. On the phone he indicated Kodiak is one of, if not the only, manufacturing sources for NRL parts, so they are a vanishing breed.

Given all that info and the fact I can't afford to change axles, hubs and bearings now, I decided to buy 4 of the integral hub/bearing/rotor kits and 2 sets of disc brake pads so I can replace all the ones on our rig. Right now they're selling the RTR/HUB-133-8-10-XL (complete hub/bearing/rotor with 13" rotor, 5/8" lugs and dust cap) for $107.78 each. The pads for the Kodiak 250 disc brakes are DBC-250-CERM-PAD (one set for one axle - 2 inner and 2 outer) are $50 per set. Now, I'm hoping these will last us for several more years so I don't have to revisit this issue for quite some time.

One final thought to pass on is, given the fact NRL parts will soon become unavailable, anyone wanting or needing any now or think they will fairly soon, should seriously consider buying now rather than later. Otherwise they're likely going to be replacing more than just hubs and rotors.

Also, my apologies to everyone for deviating from the original thread topic on slide problems. In hindsight, I should have started a new thread about hubs and bearings. I'll be more attentive to that in the future.

oldbird
12-19-2017, 02:05 PM
Steve, does the NRL bearing have to be pressed into the hub, I think so anyway. Are you getting all yours pressed in by Kodiak? If you haven't bought the pads yet I believe you would be better off with NAPA's 'best' pads, works good for me and I think they are better then Kodiak's pads. I think I'll get in tough with Jesse about getting at least one spare. If more then one goes I'll switch to Mor/ryde IS. Thanks for posting, what is Jesse's number?

Rockyhud
12-19-2017, 02:29 PM
Glenn, the hubs I bought are ready to install - the bearings are already in place. When I called Kodiak I just called their main number (817) 284-5141 and asked for Jesse. He's a good guy to talk with about these items.

Rockyhud
12-20-2017, 09:43 AM
One more update. When talking with Jesse yesterday, to order these parts, he recommended I let him take the order instead of doing so online, as the website apparently doesn't always get things right. As I recall, he said it happened more so with multiple heavier parts, so I took his suggestion and did so. At the time of ordering he wasn't able to give me a total charge as he was going to try to pack 2 hubs in one box to minimize the quantity of boxes shipped. He also advised me the order should arrive at my home in a couple of days or soon after. Without thinking more about this and the impact it could have on shipping charges, I said that sounded fine.

So, later in the day I checked my bank account online and found the charges pending. I was a little surprised by what I presumed the shipping charges amounted to, increasing the total more than I had initially guessed it would be. So, thinking about this, I think what happened, and logically so, is that Jesse understandably thought since I had been talking with him about a failed/failing hub, that I probably needed them sooner than later, so I'm speculating that he shipped these 2-3 day UPS or FedEx to make that happen. Had I been more attentive to his remarks, I would have advised him that I didn't need them expedited, which I believe would likely have reduced the shipping cost and total cost. So the higher cost than expected is really my fault for not letting him know I didn't need them shipped fast.

So, just my 2 cents on this, if anyone else contacts Kodiak to order these hubs, to get one or more before they're no longer available, let them know whether you need expedited shipping or not.

Cummins12V98
12-20-2017, 09:49 AM
Steve, does the NRL bearing have to be pressed into the hub, I think so anyway. Are you getting all yours pressed in by Kodiak? If you haven't bought the pads yet I believe you would be better off with NAPA's 'best' pads, works good for me and I think they are better then Kodiak's pads. I think I'll get in tough with Jesse about getting at least one spare. If more then one goes I'll switch to Mor/ryde IS. Thanks for posting, what is Jesse's number?


Kevin at Kodiak told me years ago they don't sell "quality" pads and it's best to buy a quality brands best quality Semi Metallic pads for a late 80's Buick century HD.

porthole
12-21-2017, 01:21 PM
charges pending.



Charges pending are not always the final amount. Any chance they just ran the card to make sure the funds were available first, with the corrected amount showing up in a day or two?

If not, it's not just on you. They know the difference between UPS ground and 2nd day etc. Should have offered you the option.

Rockyhud
12-21-2017, 04:12 PM
Charges pending are not always the final amount. Any chance they just ran the card to make sure the funds were available first, with the corrected amount showing up in a day or two?


Nope. Our credit union often shows VISA payments pending in amounts like this before they're actually applied to the credit card account - for the same amount as shown pending.

Rockyhud
01-21-2018, 01:20 PM
FINAL UPDATE: Several weeks ago I had time and decent weather and was able to replace the wobbly wheel hub/bearing/rotor and brake pads on the off-door side rear axle. The actual work wasn't bad at all. A few weeks after that, while replacing some spring eye and shackle grease zerks with 45-degree zerks and greasing all wet bolts, I had time to raise the tires on the door side off the ground and give the wheels and tires a good wiggle test. I was pleasantly surprised to find the front had absolutely no play. The rear had barely, and I mean barely, perceptible play - so little that I spent more time rotating the wheel a little at a time and repeating the wiggle test. According to documentation from Lippert The amount of play I was barely detecting was well within the limits of acceptability. That said, I will definitely keep this wheel in mind and check more periodically so I don't allow it to cause problems. I still have 3 more hub/bearing/rotor assemblies for replacement when needed.

So, back on topic, we had nice weather and time to hitch up and take the rig out for a test run yesterday to see if there was any abnormal sound coming from the rig during tight turns. Before the hub replacement, I had heard some mild metal-on-metal screeching sound from the rig during tight turns on our trip home from FL. It was only during tight turns, due to the higher side load on the rears, as there were no unusual sounds when rolling through wide turns and going straight. I was very pleased to NOT hear anything but the normal sound of tires scrubbing a little during very tight turns.

So, it appears all hubs and bearings are good to go for the foreseeable future. It's also reassuring to know I have 3 more new hubs if/when the time comes for repairing the other wheel locations.

Thank you to all who provided good info to me (and others) while I was sorting things out.

wingnut60
01-21-2018, 01:44 PM
Steve,
Would it not be better to have all four hubs/bearings on the trailer new and keep one of the old ones for a spare? I'm thinking the oem bearings lasted 6 years, probably that much left with 4 new ones?
In 6 years, if you still are enjoying the trailer, then time for new axles with the bearing of your choice...
Joe

Rockyhud
01-21-2018, 03:58 PM
Certainly good points to that reasoning and factors I have considered. However, this coming summer we're planning to setup and live in the rig on our kids property nearby for 1-3 years while I finish out my career and they get their property ready for sale, so the rig won't get many miles on it until after that. If our plans change and we do wind up traveling with it more in the near term I'll certainly revisit that plan and likely put the new hubs and bearings on and hang onto a couple of old ones for spares. Both front axle units would be good for that purpose.