bulletproof diesel?

[pmwoodward]

Hi, I have been doing a fair amount of research on 1 ton diesel trucks, specifically the F350. It seems that the 'experts' are all saying that every powerstroke diesel is horrible in its stock form. And, it costs about $12-13K in aftermarket alterations to make them right. As I am not married to the idea of Ford, is there a 1 ton diesel (dually) that is right from the factory? I am guessing I will be full timing and pulling 14-16K lbs. That is a significant load. I am sure that opinions will vary widely. Do the majority of 5th haulers pull with a stock truck with issues? Thanks

[netjam]

In yr 9 fulltiming. Started in 07 with an 08 f-450 with a 6.4. The motor was no end of problems being rebuilt completely 3 times (all warranty). In 2012 got a2012 F-350 and it has been trouble free. Pulled a 20000# 5er for 1st 4 years and 16000# since then. The 2012 f-350 has only pulled the 16000# but I would say its far better than the f-450 of 2008.

[wingnut60]

Hang around, Cummins12V98 will notice this post.....

2009 F450--207K miles relatively trouble free; at 207781, #8 cylinder lost compression, probably from dropping a valve. Too expensive to fix, sold for $9500 and bought a '10 just like it. Running just fine for now, at 77k miles.

I think all the new trucks are 'relatively' trouble-free----a 'fair amount of research' should include the owners' forums for all 3 to see what complaints pop up. From 2011, they all have the DEF fluid, and the other emissions stuff. Just google "GM/Ford/Dodge,Ram owners forums" and the links should come up. Read them all in depth and try to figure out which ones are literal comments, and which ones are just comments/opinions.
TheDieselStop.com is one for Fords
TDR for Cummins
Don't know what the Duramax owners is
Joe

[pmwoodward]

thanks for the replies. Is it safe to assume that the majority of 5th's are pulled by stock or almost stock diesel trucks? Specifically, I was on youtube watching videos posted by www.powerstrokehelp.com . He was more or less saying that the 6.0/6.4/6.7/7.3 are all more or less terrible in their stock form. And, it is about $13K to make them right. I will do some more research as suggested on the Dodge/Chevy forums to see what comes up there. I think I might be inclined to do a few of the simpler (less $$) mods that can make a real difference, but $13K is a lot of money for most anyone. Cheers

[Walt]

Depends what state you are registered in. If your state does emissions checks you can not delete the emissions stuff. I have a 2011 GMC Duramax DRW with plenty of power, stock, to pull a 16,000lbs 5th wheel.

[netjam]

Mine is stock. Talked to a bunch of fulltimers and most (95%+) are bone stock. A few had chips or other mods but not many.

[wingnut60]

Have run a tuner for several years, wouldn't go back unless with a truck under warranty.
New trucks have so much power now, no need for one.
Joe

[Maverick]

Look at the New RAMS! You can't beat the Cummins Diesel. They have the time tested engine.Ford hasn't made a good diesel yet.

[Chandler]

Yes the Cummins is a very good engine no doubt. But I sure like my Ford with the 7.3 too.

[Maverick]

Yes the Cummins is a very good engine no doubt. But I sure like my Ford with the 7.3 too.


What year is your 7.3? I know the 7.3 could not meet stringent emissions standards and that's one reason they dropped it.

[Chandler]

It is a 2000 model. It has only 91,000 miles on it and is in like new condition.

[pmwoodward]

It seems that the reality is that most RV hauler are not having any unusual problems in general. After doing some research, it appears that the following are true: 7.3 is an overall good low tech engine that has virtually no emissions. The 6.0 is a very high tech engine that has problems due to being so complex to meet emissions. The 6.4 has horrible fuel economy. The 6.7 has great power and a better reliability record. Buying a new, or almost new truck is not an option for me. I am starting to lean towards the Cummins now.

[kannon]

I think they dropped the 7.3 because ford and Navistar were not seeing eye to eye.If you have a late 7.3 1999 to 2002 i.m.h.o those are some awesome engines.Respond well to banks kits with higher m.p.g.'s lower e.g.t.'s and more torque and horsepower.Its a win,win,win.All iron engine.Ford went out on their own after the 7.3 international engine and to say they had (have) a learning curve would be a huge understatement.I own a 2001 f350 4 door 7.3 with a banks super stinger kit and am happy with it.Bought it new went back to dealer for recall on cam chain sensor.No other trouble.Jim

[martins192]

No, the 6.0 and 6.4 are also International engines like the 7.3.

[wingnut60]

Oh, so true...

[Stevencoles]

We've been running around the Midwest and South for over a year pulling close to 20k ...not one issue with our 2015. We don't have CA emissions stuff, not sure if that is what causes problems.

[pmwoodward]

I have done some extensive searches on the Dodge Cummins in particular. The general consensus is that the Cummins is hands down the best pickup diesel out there. Even the Dodge owners all seem to prefer the Ford cab itself. I am not sure why I was so fixated on the Ford. Especially when my worst owned vehicle by a mile was a 1990 Ford Bronco II. What a money pit! I swore I would never by a Ford again. I guess all the F-150 being the most popular vehicle got me thinking that way. Besides much better reliability on the Cummins, what also stands out is the fact that the Cummins has its max torque at a much lower RPM where it is useful.
Thanks for all your input! Cheers, Paul

[GlennWest]

Where you located? Got a 2012 Silverado dually cc hauler bed with air ride hitch, paid $6k for bed installed and $2400 for air ride hitch. Has 55k miles. Not a dent on it. $34K. I have bought a Freightliner Century to tow my camper

[pmwoodward]

Hi Glenn, I live outside of Boston. I am thinking of initially getting a small lightweight TT initially and will use a half ton for that. The Dodge Ecodiesel is looking good to me right now. My thinking is, I want to do a few years of 6-7 month trip and go to Alaska and some other remote places that I would be hesitant about going to in a fulltime type 5th. I see that you have a Freightliner TV now. Perhaps a short recap of how it compares to a one tone diesel dually? thanks

[GlennWest]

The dually with my 6k pin was very rough ride unless road was smooth. Rode like a sled. The Century should be a comfortable ride. Full air suspension, cab and seat. Actually should get better mpg. Easier to back. Trails correctly unlike a dually. My hitch wiil be mounted at farthest end of bed. Tow a Smart on deck back of cab. That is my daily commute. The safety aspect also. Wished we had done this years ago. My truck is still waiting on hitch. Will get around the 20th. Then bed goes on. Take possession around end of January. Even then we likely not move Teton for a few months.

[Low 'n Slow]

I purchased a 2015 brand new GMC Dually Denali last April. I had a previous Chevy Silverado 3500 2007 Classic. I drove them all (the big 3) and decided on the GMC after doing a ton of research. If I were buying a Ford, I believe I would opt for the F450. The new ones are a bit pricey, but you get a very nice truck. My GMC dually does everything I need it to do. It does have the higher bed rails so be careful when selecting a trailer.

Good luck,

Paul

[kannon]

Diesel power magazine has writeup on 2017 model year F-350.Complete new design.Going to aluminum body and boxing of rear frame should solve flex problems.Heavier driveline,bigger brakes also.Much more.Its the February issue.Jim

[Chandler]

Sounds good, look forward to seeing it.

[wingnut60]

I am unsure of what 'flex problems' refers to--having an '09 and now a '10 450, have not had any issue with the flex problem. But any increase in frame strength, brakes and driveline should work to increase towing stability. But really worried about the increase in MSRP...
Joe

[kannon]

Current f350 has c channel frame in box section.Its flexing under heavy loads in box.I witnessed this.Local farmer was parked on side of hill and door gap changed till he parked on level ground.Yes he was overloaded.New box frame rails will be 1.5 inches taller and said to be 24 times stiffer than current model.

[rcraft@satx.rr.com]

Ford dropped it (the 7.3) because Navistar (who was the manufacturer) was problematic with warranty claims. Ford took it in-house and now builds their own diesel which is 6.7 litres (409 cu in). Very innovative design and high tech and so far it has proven to have good longevity also. Cummings (Ram) and Isuzu (Chevy) are pretty good engines as well. I think it's really a matter of personal preference as all the newer engines seem to be over the issues that were generated by emissions requirements. I have a 2014 that is pretty sweet.

[tdst51]

I have done some extensive searches on the Dodge Cummins in particular. The general consensus is that the Cummins is hands down the best pickup diesel out there. Even the Dodge owners all seem to prefer the Ford cab itself. I am not sure why I was so fixated on the Ford. Especially when my worst owned vehicle by a mile was a 1990 Ford Bronco II. What a money pit! I swore I would never by a Ford again. I guess all the F-150 being the most popular vehicle got me thinking that way. Besides much better reliability on the Cummins, what also stands out is the fact that the Cummins has its max torque at a much lower RPM where it is useful.
Thanks for all your input! Cheers, Paul

Cummins. No regrets, and you'll never look back. Cummins- Donald Trump. Ford diesel- Hilary Clinton. For God's sake- make the right choice! (This oughta get you guys going!)

[wingnut60]

OK---my Ford is a lot prettier than Clinton......you have really insulted all Ford owners.

[Chandler]

I'm with you on that Wingnut!

[wingnut60]

And he may have insulted Trump....

[GlennWest]

You guys just ain't right. I have never been brand loyal. We now have new Durango, wife's wheels. Smart car for my commute. Freightliner for towing. Have owned a Ford but 150 gas, Chevy gas and diesel, all were/are good vehicles.

[Bigdog 427]

My son owns and operates an engine rebuild shop and a all around mechanical repair garage. And from what I see coming in for major or minor repairs are older higher milage vehicles that are out of warranty. May just be luck of the draw but the older 7.3PS that I've seen is some injector troubles. The 6.0PS head gaskets, injectors,a few engines. The duramax few head head gaskets, quite a few injectors for some reason, and some drive line problems mostly fr.diff. and transfer case. The 5.9 cummins maybe just by chance he doesn't see them. And one more that I've been impressed with is the 8100 chevy gas engine, I have saw a few of them with 300 + thousand miles no trouble and the ones I have driven run excellent. I personally tow with 5.9 cummins 2500 been well satisfied once I come to the conclusion that I just don't get the fuel milage that others do.

[Bigdog 427]

May I ask what size freight liner and what kind of engine

[Bigdog 427]

Have run a tuner for several years, wouldn't go back unless with a truck under warranty.
New trucks have so much power now, no need for one.
Joe
Can I ask what kind of tuners and how much weight and do you have any temperature issues

[wingnut60]

Truck weighs about 10200 loaded for long trips; trailer about 17400 = 27600gross.

Using an H&S MiniMaxx tuner, DPF/DOC deleted, EGR deactivated, 4" exhaust w/muffler. Temps are only a problem if I try to beat everyone to the top of the pass...the real benefit of the tuner is no more regens at the worst possible time, there is no "2-5 mpg" improvement in mileage that I can see.

These tuners WILL destroy an engine if run at highest level under load.

If I could afford a new truck, would not consider using one as all the new ones have plenty of power as built--trying to improve on them is mostly pointless, and the delete tuners are now a black-market item due to pressure by EPA.

Prepping for repeat of 2012 AK trip this June.

Joe

[Davidg]

No doubt the Cummins 6.7 is a great 6 cyl engine, but Fords newest 6.7 8 cyl will outperform the Cummins in every performance category, except possibly fuel mileage. My problem with the Ram is the truck...not the engine.
None of these trucks are trouble free, especially with the DEF systems.
I'm on my second Ford 6.7, and I would not have bought a second one if I were not happy with the first one. More raw power than any passenger vehicle I've ever owned, including an SS396 a hundred years ago.

[Davidg]

Joe, I agree with you 100%. I know of several Ford 6.0 engines that have well over 200k miles and still towing strong, but the owners did not put tuners and oversize tires on them and then see if they could plow through six feet deep mud every weekend. Those are usually the engines that don't hold up well. Could the 6.0 be improved? absolutely, but given decent care and maintenance, they do a good job. The 6.4 was a little tougher, but didn't get the best fuel mileage, due in part to the dual turbo arrangement where Ford was trying to get rid of the lag in turbo response time. They seemed to have gotten it right with the 6.7.

[GlennWest]

May I ask what size freight liner and what kind of engine
2006 Century 120 detroit 60 14L 515 hp

[17Oaks]

Diesel power magazine has writeup on 2017 model year F-350.Complete new design.Going to aluminum body and boxing of rear frame should solve flex problems.Heavier driveline,bigger brakes also.Much more.Its the February issue.Jim
I am on my 3rd F 350, my current is a '15 CC, LB, Dually.

This flex thing I find interesting in that I regularly haul 5500-6000 lbs in the bed of my truck, I drive Interstate to the back ranch roads here in Texas. Some of those times I am also pulling a trailer up to 10,000 lbs.

All I can say is: Flex, what flex, where, when and how 'cause I have yet to see it.

I grew up on a ranch here in Tx and I remember well the ONLY truck was a Chevy/GMC, anything else was driven by 'sharecroppers'.

Uncle Sam drafted me in Jan of '67 and I headed out across the world to make a living and get the hell off that ranch...40+ years later I am back and I needed a ranch truck. But by now I am a multi-displined Engineer and just maybe the Chevy/GMC of old is no longer an answer and the game I play is at the 350/3500 level.

Like the good engineer I am I researched and the following reflects a good six mo:

Chevy/GMC Dealers: Can we help you? Yep, show me you 3500, diesel, dually.............we can order you one! Fine, got a brochure? NO, got one on the lot? NO, know anyone who does, NO. Ended up finding a few 'white' trucks over on some of the big dealer commercial lots, but wife would not even get in it.

Dodge Dealer: They called around and found some at other dealers usually outside of town. I had a big Cummins engine in my RV (505 HP IIRC) and can say nothing bad about it, but the Dodge Cummins is not a commercial grade engine, its made for Dodge and while they seem good and I have friends who have them, they are not the million mile Cummins I had in that RV with 1750 lbs of torque to haul that thing around. Certainly not afraid of buying a Dodge with a Cummins...but one of the things I hate about Dodge is that like a Harley if I hear it I know its a Harley and that is NOT a bad sound, but that Cummins diesel in the tin can Dodge sounds like a cheap truck and the fit an finish really is, wife passed.

Ford Dealer: Well its Texas and yep, got Dually's in stock. The new (as of '11) Ford diesel, made by Ford is state of the art, while the rest are playing with Aluma and iron Ford has a better idea and its 'charcoal briquettes' they make into a block. Its QUIET! Wife loved the fit and finish, the paint (Tuxedo Black) may be one of the best looking paints on the market for anything vehicle. My '15 King Ranch is one hellava nice truck, seats like a Lazy Boy and with 860 lbs of torque, I can go from 0-100 mph faster than this ole Corvette driver can believe, WOW! I load almost 6000 lbs in the bed, throw on a 10,000 lb trailer and I drive the left lane of Interstate with cruise set on 80 mph on I 10 to El Paso...and see mpg in the 10's. The truck never breaks a sweat and if I need to pass, I can make folks eyes get real wide and I go around in a hurry.

So I am on my 3rd one and I trade about 50k miles, never an issue. I did have to reflash computer on my 14 right after I got it, but that was the computer and the software reload fixed it.

3 x F350 and I would buy another one without hesitation...