Have been shopping DRV, but now intrigued by Domani. Good or bad?

[JimGnitecki]

My wife and I have been shopping for a 5th wheel, and had been looking mostly at used Redwoods and DRVs, and one new DRV (Tradition model, as covered in a separate thread here). But a used 2009 Domani has grabbed our attention.

The Domani is kind of incredible. It is only 31 feet long. Weighs only 9500 lb. It has swoopy Italian styling that looks like an Italian sports car on the outside and a yacht on the inside. It seems to have a particularly high quality gel coat (still shines gorgeously after 6 1/2 years, despite this specific one not even having the optional full body paint).

It has aluminum/mineral wool/gelcoat hung wall construction identical to DRV Tradition, but bit thinner (R8), and welded versus bolted. Roof is aluminum truss like the DRV, with 1/2" walk-on plywood, but again slightly thinner insulation (R16). Floor is also R16, with engineered steel space frame. In the ihe interior, EVERYTHING is curved and swoopy.

The one we are looking at has the costly and very eye catching American Mag wheels option and the original Goodyear 285/50R20 116H tires, but the tires will of course need to be replaced. It turns out that Hankook, Cooper, Nitto and even Pirelli make tires with the right size and the right 116 load rating, and the dealer says if we buy the tires and bring them in, the service staff will install and balance them for $120 total.

The 2 axles are Dexter #11 Torflex, rated at 5200 lbs each. I love the Torflex feature.

Since the rig weighs 9500 unloaded, there are only about 9500*0.75 = 7125 lb total on the 2 axles unloaded, and at full GVWR = 11,500, there are 8625 lb on the 2 axles, or 4313 each axle. (The 2000 NCC is fine for us - we have 1500 lb to load into it).

The above weights make this fiver towable by a GAS 6.2 liter Ford 250, or even, incredibly enough, a Ford Ecoboost (pin weight would be only 2875 lb at maximum fully loaded to GVWR) (edit: Checked the 2009 Domani brochure: empty pin weight is only 1800 lb, so maybe 2300 lb at GVWR weight). Avoiding the complexities, costs, and lately- warranty cab-off repairs - of a diesel is an unexpected potential bonus.

There is 1 Coleman Mach AC unit but the dealer will provide and install a second Coleman Mach for a very reasonable price ($954 installed), as the Domani comes with a second standard 14" mount point (currently covered with a standard fan cover), that is reinforced and pre-wired.

The shower and cabinetry are particularly nice in terms of quality and condition. The wood cabinetry finish is VERY impressive given the age.

The coach is in excellent condition overall for a 2009 - one of the best we have seen, and the dealer is willing to guarantee that all systems work and no leaks, and willing to do the PDI and then set it up for 2 or 3 days with all systems working on his site, including water connection, so that we can spend time in it BEFORE delivery to ensure no problems are apparent before it gets delivered.

The price is the lowest by far of any of the rigs that we have examined that actually interest us. The dealer wants $27,000 plus the $954 for the 2nd AC, $120 for the tire installation and balancing, and we would also pay the dealership to replace a seciton of Darco underneath that has holes in it because some idiot amateur cut it up with a utility knife to make some RV repairs sometime in the past (we understand the importance of the Darco for insulation, keeping out road dirt, and keeping out insects/snakes/rodents, etc.

I really thought that although I love the concept, my wife would never tolerate the smaller size and reduced interior storage (although the basement is notably larger than the DRV Tradition and the Redwood!). But, she surprised me and really likes it. She says its condition impressed her, and she noted the apparent "spaciousness" which is the result of clever interior design. It's basically visually an Italian Airstream but with much more real and apparent space because it has square and much higher walls, and a basement, and none of the "early death by hidden floor rotting" problems inherent to the multi-piece riveted shells of the Airstreams.

The Domani is pretty rare for 2 reasons:

1. It went into production just as the economy collapsed, limiting its sales severely

2. The "European styling" was a big jolt for many people in the target market (retirees :) ).

But the ones that were sold seem to be aging very graciously, which probably reflects the underlying Carriage quality.

I have done extensive Googling, and can't really find all that much information about actually living with the Domani, but did note that most of the actual owners really like their Domani, but warn others that it does not have the real space and storage of a larger 5iver of course.

Have any of you heard good or bad things about the Domani? Are there any problems known to be associated with them?

I realize that it is not a DRV, but then the cost LOOKS like a relative bargain given the apparent durability.

Jim G

[missourijan]

Uh, you realize that you are asking (majority on this thread) Drv owners what they think of the Domani? Not trying to be a smarta** but we own Drv's for good reason. When you said it's the lowest cost of the rv's you've looked at you kinda lost me. Price should not be the only comparison. I don't know who makes the Domani but I would post this on the Domani owner's forum. You are always going to get your best info from actual owners. Compare the insulation r factors, the frame build and what owners say.
Oh, I see now you've been posting about the Tradition, so you obviously know it's a Drv forum, my advice still stands, Domani owners are your best resource.

[Cummins12V98]

As a DRV owner I would not own a Tradition. They are designed to compete with the "I" beam frame RV's.

[hitchup]

Domani was built by Carriage. Some people love their Carriages, but after touring both the Carriage factory on a Monday and DRV on a Tuesday, we were less impressed with Carriage products. This was after July 4, 2008 when they were just putting 2009s into production. We were looking at other options to replace our 2006 Elite Suite.

I don't think they had any in production at the factory, but we did do a walk-through at one of the many RV Shows.

I do remember this original TrailerLife article. For us - as working fulltimers it wasn't right. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be right for you. We ordered a 38' 2009 Mobile Suite a month later.

http://www.trailerlife.com/reviews/trailer-reviews/carriages-domani-df302/

[JimGnitecki]

Uh, you realize that you are asking (majority on this thread) Drv owners what they think of the Domani? Not trying to be a smarta** but we own Drv's for good reason. When you said it's the lowest cost of the rv's you've looked at you kinda lost me. Price should not be the only comparison. I don't know who makes the Domani but I would post this on the Domani owner's forum. You are always going to get your best info from actual owners. Compare the insulation r factors, the frame build and what owners say.
Oh, I see now you've been posting about the Tradition, so you obviously know it's a Drv forum, my advice still stands, Domani owners are your best resource.

Yes, I am trying to FIND a Carriage Domani forum with info. I think I found one now, but will need to go through the registration process there to even view the threads at all. I submitted my registration yesterday and no confirmation yet.

The attractions of the Domani include that it uses basically the same construction as the DRV, but just a bit thinner on wall thickness and thus R factor.

Jim G

[JimGnitecki]

Domani was built by Carriage. Some people love their Carriages, but after touring both the Carriage factory on a Monday and DRV on a Tuesday, we were less impressed with Carriage products. This was after July 4, 2008 when they were just putting 2009s into production. We were looking at other options to replace our 2006 Elite Suite.

I don't think they had any in production at the factory, but we did do a walk-through at one of the many RV Shows.

I do remember this original TrailerLife article. For us - as working fulltimers it wasn't right. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be right for you. We ordered a 38' 2009 Mobile Suite a month later.

http://www.trailerlife.com/reviews/trailer-reviews/carriages-domani-df302/

Yes, I did find that Trailer Life article, and also several non-Domani "generic" RV forum threads where the Domani series was discussed. The general consensus I got out of those threads was that the people that own them love them, but that at the same time they do warn other prospective buyers that it may not be enough coach for many fulltimers, as it is only 31 feet long and all the storage cabinetry, while numerous, is on the shallow side, except the basement which is larger than on many 37 to 40 foot 5th wheels, and also accessible from 3 sides unobstructed.

The biggest attraction is also the biggest turnoff to some folks - the European styling, the apparent "airyness" and the "futuristic" overall vibe. But, my wife seems to really like it, and it satisfies the engineer in me with its basic "bones".

And I do have to admit I love the optional "Roman Chariot" wheels and their wide tires. Very racy. :)

Jim G

[Joezilla]

We looked at a Domani in 2008 or so. I could not get over the smallish TV located over the fridge. Of course, the $80,000 price tag at the time was a turnoff also.

However, this is a DRV forum, so lets get back to discussing any and all DRV models.

Joe

[wingnut60]

Jim,
Besides the size, and the 'wheels', the Domani was not comparable to the Tradition you were considering. Beautiful wheels and questionable tires seem to dominate your requirements...

[billr]

Indeed. Rotflmao

[JimGnitecki]

I DID mention the similar construction to the DRV, the light weight that makes towing far easier, the huge basement, the non-I-beam steel space frame, the top quality shower, the wood cabinetry, the independent torsion suspension, but did forget to mention the double slide seals, the convection oven, the electric rear stabilizing struts, the flush slide, and the frameless HEHR windows which were pretty high tech in 2009.

But then I foolishly mentioned the frivolous wheels and obviously let them seduce me with their unnecessary better braking, better towing, and less sway due to the low sidewalls and wide footprint . . . :)

Jim G

[billr]

Just a bit iof tongue in cheek stuff here. It's just you ask a lot ok questions and seem to dismiss most responses.

Trying to compare units that are not even close

I think you have great research skills and can reason yourself in or out of any unit you are interested in without any outside influence

Best of luck in your search.

[JimGnitecki]

Just a bit iof tongue in cheek stuff here. It's just you ask a lot ok questions and seem to dismiss most responses.

Trying to compare units that are not even close

I think you have great research skills and can reason yourself in or out of any unit you are interested in without any outside influence

Best of luck in your search.

What are the negatives you see in the Carriage Domani? (Beyond the obvious it's smaller and has less storage room)

Jim G

[terry and jo]

First of all, I think I can see that Jim has a good sense of humor, as he's taking some ribbing here. Good deal.

As for the basement storage and access, just about any of the Mobile and Elite Suites models can also have lots of space, especially if the trailer being looked at is not set up with generator prep or have a generator. Without those options, the Suites also have access to the basement via three doors on each side and under the overhang.

Carriage products were supposed to have had a good reputation when they were in business, but when we did our research, they could not compare in quality with the Suites models. Prior to our ordering our 2010, we made a trip to Dallas to see a model or two that had our interest. We also went on over to Granbury to an RV dealer that had DRV's on that same trip. I couldn't see that the Carriage products were even close to the quality of wood and other features with the DRV's.

Uppermost in my mind was the belief that if the trailer's frame didn't impress me, I wasn't interested. After all, the frame, axles, suspension, tires and wheels are the very foundation of the RV. Styling took a back seat to strength and construction with me. The Mobile and Elite's triple-box frame just seemed to be far superior to the other brands, other than perhaps the New Horizons and Continental Coach brands.

Terry

[JimGnitecki]

First of all, I think I can see that Jim has a good sense of humor, as he's taking some ribbing here. Good deal.

As for the basement storage and access, just about any of the Mobile and Elite Suites models can also have lots of space, especially if the trailer being looked at is not set up with generator prep or have a generator. Without those options, the Suites also have access to the basement via three doors on each side and under the overhang.

Carriage products were supposed to have had a good reputation when they were in business, but when we did our research, they could not compare in quality with the Suites models. Prior to our ordering our 2010, we made a trip to Dallas to see a model or two that had our interest. We also went on over to Granbury to an RV dealer that had DRV's on that same trip. I couldn't see that the Carriage products were even close to the quality of wood and other features with the DRV's.

Uppermost in my mind was the belief that if the trailer's frame didn't impress me, I wasn't interested. After all, the frame, axles, suspension, tires and wheels are the very foundation of the RV. Styling took a back seat to strength and construction with me. The Mobile and Elite's triple-box frame just seemed to be far superior to the other brands, other than perhaps the New Horizons and Continental Coach brands.

Terry

Thanks, Terry. THIS is the kind of feedback I need, not broad statements that basically sound like "I like the brand I bought so much better than any other that I just say it's better".

The triple frame comment is reasonably valid at first sight, BUT it too has a flaw. Let me explain.

In the past, all trucks and even cars were built on a 2-rail chassis system. This was indeed strong if the rails were large enough, or were fully enclosed cross-section ("tubular"), but the system was also very HEAVY.

Today, while trucks retain this basic frame structure, virtually all cars, including the new "crossovers", use a "box" type of construction, where the entire body (bottom, sides, and roof) are all part of one welded "hollow beam". This type of construction, besides costing less to build, is immensely strong and rigid when done properly. And, because it is lighter, itrequires less power to move down the highway and up hills.

Airplanes are built on the same principle, but even more so than cars, because airplanes MUST be very lightweight, since fuel consumption is the biggest operating cost and heavy planes take proportionately more power to stay aloft than a car needs to move down a highway.

Trucks are forced to retain the 2-heavy-rail structure because the need to either carry a load right above the chassis, or pull a load whose hitch must fasten above the rear axle, precludes using a box type approach. The typical pickup truck actually used as a hauler (not as a passenger vehicle only) must accept a 3000 lb or higher concentrated load in its 5.5'wide by 6.5' long cargo area, and the robust structure must extend foward of that as well in order to carry both the engine weight at the front, and to not bend or fold in the middle under the passenger cab when that heavy cargo area load is applied.This 3000 lb loading within 36 sq ft is about DOUBLE the loading (pounds per square foot) that a 38 foot DRV places on its chassis. Notice that a pickup truck does NOT use a triple stacked frame that is 12" high in total to handle the load. With good design, it does not NEED that much steel and its associated weight.

The Domani was evidently designed more like an Airstream RV, or like an airplane, than like a DRV. That's why its aluminum wall studs are WELDED versus bolted like in the DRV. And that's why it weighs 9500 lb versus the 13,500 x 31 feet /37 feet = 11,300 lb it would weigh with the DRV frame construction (since the refrigerator, AC units, furnace, bed, sofa, chairs, toilet, shower, etc all weigh about the same in either of the 2 RVs).

When I built my self-designed 2200 sq ft 2-story colonial Saltbox home in Minnesota 20 years ago, I used this "box" construction, by ensuring that all wall and roof sheathing was 1/2" structural plywood, not chipboard or buffalo board, and I overlapped the plywood across the 2 stories. My stud spacing was 24" versus 16" in order to cut the insulation R value drops created by studs. The professional building crew building a house literally across the street from me built their house more conventionally, with buffalo board sheathing, no proper overlap of sheathing between stories, and long-span roof trusses that were flexible enough to bend like noodles in the wind as they were hoisted into position, and nailed with a pneumatic nailer versus the metal Simpson tie plates I used on both the roof to wall connections and the wall to floor connections. They used more conventional 16" stud spacing, and 16" nailed floor OC spacing versus my 24" glued and screwed floors, which to the casual uninformed observer appeared "stronger" than my 24" spacing.

Then the tornado came.

THEIR house, which was blessed with a completely sheathed roof (because they were faster builders than I was), was severely damaged by the tornado. The wall sheathing was ripped off, as were sections of the roof. Pieces of their house were all over the neighborhood.

My house had only HALF its roof sheathing on just before the tornado arrived, as it had gotten dark before we could finish sheathing the roof the previous day, so the half-roof was basically a "sail" in the tornado's wind - the most vulnerable it could ever be. Knowing my roof was so vulnerable because of not being complete, I feared the worst, especially after I saw from a distance the damage to the house across the street.

But when I got to my own house, I was pleasantly surprised. The ONLY "damage" was the loss of the "No Trespassing" sign we had put up for liability reduction purposes. The crew across the street was standing around gaping at their home versus mine.

When the building inspector did our framing inspection shortly thereafter, he made 2 comments:

1. If this house ever catches fire, it will MELT rather than burn, with the number of Simpson plates you have on these walls.

2. This house could take an Atlantic coast hurricane without being damaged.

We passed the inspection with flying colors. The other house across the street had to be rebuilt. Another home next to that one, which had already been completed and occupied, had to be abandoned, razed, and rebuilt, as it had actually been moved off its foundation by the tornado.

That Minnesota house of ours is the type of RV construction we prefer. There are 2 ways to get it. We prefer the lighter weight ways if we can get the other things we want while getting the lighter weight.

Jim G

[GlennWest]

Wasting your breath. He has already make his mind up.

[JimGnitecki]

Wasting your breath. He has already make his mind up.

No I haven't, BUT, right now, this is the best USED deal we can see in our local market area. No used DRVs that are anywhere close to our financial abilities - that 2015 Tradition was the best DRV deal in this market area, and we could not get financing that would work for us.

There are a couple of Redwoods within 200 miles, but the least costly one is a 2013 asking $50K.

So, the used Carriage Domani is the OPPOSITE of "he has already made his mind up". It's a flexible response to an impediment in the way of getting the DRV.

I'm still asking for specific reasons that the Domani would be a poor choice, and haven't yet seen any presented to me here. :)

Jim G

[Joezilla]

No I haven't, BUT, right now, this is the best USED deal we can see in our local market area. No used DRVs that are anywhere close to our financial abilities - that 2015 Tradition was the best DRV deal in this market area, and we could not get financing that would work for us.

There are a couple of Redwoods within 200 miles, but the least costly one is a 2013 asking $50K.

So, the used Carriage Domani is the OPPOSITE of "he has already made his mind up". It's a flexible response to an impediment in the way of getting the DRV.

I'm still asking for specific reasons that the Domani would be a poor choice, and haven't yet seen any presented to me here. :)

Jim G

Well, you are trying to impress us with how well you think the Domani is built and such. You are really on the wrong website to do that. We all have DRV units and really have no interest in the now defunct Domani brand. No matter how much we tell you to get a DRV product, you keep coming back the the $$$ excuse. I understand that times are hard, but if money is your driving concern, then by all means get the Domani and be happy.

Joe

[GlennWest]

DRVs are nice but we left DRV for a better unit. We now have a Teton. It is very heavy built and older units can be bought for less dollars. We got our 2003 Grand 2 years ago for 30k. It is in great shape. Put it up against anything on mass market. We are full time so our needs are more than a vacation type unit. We need a better built unit to hold up to full time use. Trying to buy cheaper made units due to cost is not smart. We paid 30k for a great unit. If my money was limited I would look in high end used market.

[JimGnitecki]

DRVs are nice but we left DRV for a better unit. We now have a Teton. It is very heavy built and older units can be bought for less dollars. We got our 2003 Grand 2 years ago for 30k. It is in great shape. Put it up against anything on mass market. We are full time so our needs are more than a vacation type unit. We need a better built unit to hold up to full time use. Trying to buy cheaper made units due to cost is not smart. We paid 30k for a great unit. If my money was limited I would look in high end used market.

Glennwest: What makes the Teton better than the DRV from your perspective? (I realize every individual's perspective is going to be different based on their experiences).

Jim G

[terry and jo]

One other issue to bring up for you Jim. While the construction on the Domani might be very good (I'm no engineer), its weight could still be a problem. While is is a lot lighter than the DRV's, perhaps of even a 32-foot model, that weight could be a problem with high cross winds. I'd suggest that if you go that way that you always be sure and pay attention to the direction of the prevailing winds when you plan to be parked for a while, and to avoid traveling when you might have high cross winds.

Years ago, within the trucking industry, someone decided that aluminum cattle trailers would be excellent and allow bull haulers to carry more weight in cattle. They were fine when they were loaded, but if they were dead-heading and encountered high winds, they had to park them and face the front of the trailer into the winds.

Also, not that it's really an issue, the Mobile and Elite Suites have a 15" frame, not a 12" one. Also, while I don't doubt the construction of your house, we lived in tornado alley for most of our lives. We've seen tornadoes do strange things in tearing up one house and not damaging the one near it at all. Those things are totally unpredictable.

Terry

[wingnut60]

Tetons were for many years considered the 'Cadillac' of fifth wheels trailers, and being built in Casper, WY, they knew how to insulate them. Biggest drawback, they were VERY heavy for length and early duallys were hard-pressed to handle them. I believe they went out of business in the 2008 downturn, or maybe earlier. Things just happen. I saw a lot of them being used for housing in the oilfields up in Wyoming, and many wintered in them.
As Glenn has said, they are well built, but if you are concerned about weight, then they aren't for you.
There probably weren't enough Domanis built to have a real following, or a forum that can be of real help in evaluating a used one. And, they were an odd design for the time--there was also one from Canada? that had an 'aerodynamic' look that also fizzled. Sometimes odd is not successful, but doesn't mean it won't be a good unit.
The real choice is yours in whatever you end up with--used units can have problems no matter how nice they look--or they can be a great buy.
Cheers...
Joe

[GlennWest]

Don't misunderstand my post. I am no way downing DRV. I do believe it is the best mass produced unit on the market today. Tetons are a grade above a DRV. They cost more than DRV. To compare a unit today to Teton, you will have to look to custom build such as New Horizons. They actually incorporated some of the features of the Tetons in their units. They are priced in line with Teton also. And yes, it is a load with my 2012 3500 towing 40' (brochure says 39 but measures closer to 40) Teton. My comes across scales just shy on 21k. Our 2003 looks new. That statement shows its quality.

[JimGnitecki]

. . . To compare a unit today to Teton, you will have to look to custom build such as New Horizons. They actually incorporated some of the features of the Tetons in their units. They are priced in line with Teton also. And yes, it is a load with my 2012 3500 towing 40' (brochure says 39 but measures closer to 40) Teton. My comes across scales just shy on 21k. Our 2003 looks new. That statement shows its quality.

Yes, that statement DOES say a lot! That "condition after 7 years" is what caught my wife's eye on the Domani. She felt it is a " good value" in terms of what you would be getting for the dollars spent, compared to a number of other 7 year old units we saw.

However, the dealership was unwilling to make a good deal, when we discovered on close examination some ill-advised things the previous owner (or a dealer or maybe THIS dealer) had done: the Darco belly seaking had been foolishly and roughly cut in places in the past, presumably to make repairs to things above the Darco, and had not been resealed, so the chassis was open to the elements and critters, and the remaining Arco hanging down would quickly be torn off at highway speed. The china toilet had been replaced by a cheap plastic one that was just plain unacceptable. The roof joints were still sealed, but needing fresh sealing. There was only one AC unit in the ducted system, but there was a proper standard second location already prepped, wired, and temporarily capped for easy installaiton of the 2nd AC. And of course, the original tires needed replacing.

We wanted these items corrected, and were willing to negotiate a fair price that included the corrections, and a 2-day pre-acceptance "test" time period at the dealership where the 5th wheel would be connected to shorepower and water, so that we could ensure that all systems were working and there were no leaks.

The sales person's response to these requests was pretty lukewarm at best. She evidently wanted a quick sale that morning with no issues to follow up on. The dealership did ok on the quoted cost of the 2nd AC unit, but only after we corrected their choice of a cheap unit to a quality & energy efficient unit. On everything else, it sounded to us like it was going to be like pulling teeth to get everything done or to get it done RIGHT, or to get it done at a sensible price (e.g. the sales person quoted $800 to replace the Darco in its entirety versus even considering whether the middle section, where the holes were, could simply be replaced without doing the whole chassis, and the tire quote for cheap tires was several hundred dollars higher than for the BEST tires from a local tire dealer). So, we stopped our efforts to make a deal, because the process just wasn't pleasant, and the dealer was unwilling to negotiate anything. :(

We'll look some more, but will likely wait now a bit as my wife is a key member of the team opening a new location for her employer, and the next 6 weeks are going to be incredibly busy and stressful for her.

Jim G

[wanaBretiered]

Yes, I am trying to FIND a Carriage Domani forum with info. I think I found one now, but will need to go through the registration process there to even view the threads at all. I submitted my registration yesterday and no confirmation yet.

The attractions of the Domani include that it uses basically the same construction as the DRV, but just a bit thinner on wall thickness and thus R factor.

Jim G

There is a Carrige lifestyle forum with exactly what you are looking for.
http://www.carriage-lifestyle-owners.com/portal.php
you will have to make a profile.
I love my Cameo 32 FWS. Pulls easily with my 2006 F250. No issues with the Smokies Mts, easy pull.
Oh and it is for sale LOL. I moved up to a 36 foot Elite.
I would never pull any Carrige with a F150 or equivalent. 250 or better.

[GlennWest]

There is a Carrige lifestyle forum with exactly what you are looking for.
http://www.carriage-lifestyle-owners.com/portal.php
you will have to make a profile.
I love my Cameo 32 FWS. Pulls easily with my 2006 F250. No issues with the Smokies Mts, easy pull.
Oh and it is for sale LOL. I moved up to a 36 foot Elite.
I would never pull any Carrige with a F150 or equivalent. 250 or better. yes and that is a closed forum.

[wingnut60]

Is this the one you are looking at?

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/rvd/5261211525.html

[JimGnitecki]

Is this the one you are looking at?

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/rvd/5261211525.html

No, that one is in Dallas, not Austin. It is priced at the high end for Domani's. It is also heavier than the Model 300 we were looking at in Austin - around 800 to 1000 lb more as I recall.

Jim G

[wingnut60]

What's a 1000lbs when you were originally looking at the Traditon?

[JimGnitecki]

What's a 1000lbs when you were originally looking at the Traditon?

That extra 1000 lb happens to be at right about the break point between needing a 6.2 to 6.4 liter gas with 4.3 gearing to needing a diesel. Avoiding the need for the diesel would be a notable plus.

In addition, BOTH the lighter and the heavier Domani models all have a GVWR of 11,500, so the heavier ones limit your net carrying capacity more.

Jim G

[wingnut60]

How long have you been searching/researching for a fiver?

[JimGnitecki]

How long have you been searching/researching for a fiver?

Around 4 to 5 weeks or so. If we find something we both like and can afford, it would be the 4th RV we have ever bought, and the experience accumulated on the previous 3 has been a real plus in our research.

I wish that RVs were constructed more like all-aluminum horse trailers are. Such trailers:

- Never rust or delaminate or fade

- Are much lower frontal cross-sections ( at least 2 feet lower than a 5th wheel RV), so way less wind resistance and far more stable when towing

- Weigh a LOT less (They have GVWRs ranging from 13k to 20k, because horses are heavy (4 horses will weigh 4000 to 7000 lb depending on breed), but UNLOADED a 40 footer (4 horse plus living quarters trailer) weighs 9000 lb to 11,500 lb with living quarters (6000 to 6500 lb without living quarters)

- Require a less heavy duty tow vehicle (only of course when not hauling horses, that is! :) )

- Have lifetime aluminum roofs instead of rubber roofs that need constant maintenance and have limited lifetimes

- Have torsion suspension, which is both very gentle in comparison to leaf springs, and also provides independent suspension at each wheel

- Can act as an easy toyhauler too, as the floor height is typically only 18 inches above the pavement, and the horse ramp on the rear is an EASY climb for a Harley

- And yes, they have slides these days as well, although typically only one slide and typically only up to 16 feet long

- If ordered withOUT the horse paraphernalia (500 lb of rubber floor mats, several hundred lb of stall dividers, mangers, and saddle racks), they weigh even less than the above figures

- All the horse room behind the living quarters, which is also often already insulated, air conditioned, and has finished interior walls and lights and many windows, can be used easily for a 2nd bedroom, extra closets, extra storage, toyhauler space, etc.

- They seem to hold their value long-term much better than RVs do.

Unfortunately, I see at least a few challenges with them too.

For one thing, we would not realistically be able to get financed on a new one with our total income and credit score, and buying a used one that has the AC and lighting in the horse section and in which the horse stuff could be removed easily (without butchering the trailer interior) would be hard. Maybe some day. I could see one of those being a lifetime solution if you spec'ed it correctly from the factory. Some of the interiors are just gorgeous. Real quality, not just consumer flash.

Secondly, My wife does not like them as much though. She likes the multiple slides and other features of the "consumer" grade RVs, even though she knows the "bones" of them are pretty crappy compared to the way horse trailers are constructed.

Thirdly, the resale market is much smaller than the resale RV market - or at least I THINK it is - which means harder to sell if you later want something different.

Jim G

[wingnut60]

Jim,
Consider that horse trailers weigh a lot less because not many are insulated, dont' have plumbing and beds/TVs for the horses...not having a front BR or LR can do a lot for cross-sectional frontage--'course, there ain't much living area unless you bed down in the stalls.
Now, there are some I have seen when staying in Vegas that have just about EVERYTHING you want--for somewhere north of $200K... and pulled by a MDT or HDT.
Conversely, I haven't ever seen a horse in a conventional fifth wheel--maybe they ought to consider that?
Joe

[JimGnitecki]

Jim,
Consider that horse trailers weigh a lot less because not many are insulated, dont' have plumbing and beds/TVs for the horses...not having a front BR or LR can do a lot for cross-sectional frontage--'course, there ain't much living area unless you bed down in the stalls.
Now, there are some I have seen when staying in Vegas that have just about EVERYTHING you want--for somewhere north of $200K... and pulled by a MDT or HDT.
Conversely, I haven't ever seen a horse in a conventional fifth wheel--maybe they ought to consider that?
Joe

Wingnut60, I'm afraid you are showing your lack of knowledge of horse trailers.

There are PLENTY of horse trailers with fully insulated and plumbed living quarters, separated from the horse section. In fact, many of them have the horse section ALSO fully insulated and air conditioned, and sometimes also plumbed, as people who haul show horses want the animals completely comfortable and unstressed (there is an entire book written on choosing a horse trailer).

EVERY horse trailer that has living quarters has a front bedroom just like a 5th wheel RV does, but much lower headroom because of the lower overall trailer height.

The living rooms are narrower than most fivers, because only one slide, but many are also much better quality. Check out a Lakota Big Horn, for an example of a moderately priced one - About $75k to $90k brand new with typical dealer discount, so not "north of $200k", and definitely no need for an MDT since it weighs about 11,500 WITH the living quarters, BEFORE you yank out the horse stuff in the rear.

As for putting a horse into a conventional 5th wheel: the horse's weight and movement during travel would turn a typical consumer 5th wheel into shredded junk very quickly. Like I said, horse trailers are built SOLID.

Examples of the good brands, going up in price, are Lakota, Featherlite, Hart, and Bloomer.

Check them out. You might be surprised at what you see and learn.

Jim G

[wingnut60]

Guess a little frivolity missed the point. I have been around plenty of the living quarter horse trailers--and seen big screen TVs that would shame a media room.
I give up...

[JimGnitecki]

... I give up...

Yeah, you should. You have been nothing but a discouragement to me in most of your comments on my threads, and no real help. Sorry if my presence threatens you somehow. It shouldn't.

Jim G

[wingnut60]

I sincerely apologize and hope you find what you are looking for.

[billr]

Jim

I too wish you luck in your search I said before I'm sure you are armed with the research skills and bsckground needed to be successful

I'm sure no one is threatened by your presence here especially Joe.

I'm sure he has tried his best to help you with your questions but if like myself he is a tad frustrated with the wordy posts and expertise yet still wondering why no one is answering your questions to your satisfaction.

So not too offend you I will let someone else join in

Only you know what you like, want, can afford, tow etc.

[Joezilla]

Yeah, you should. You have been nothing but a discouragement to me in most of your comments on my threads, and no real help. Sorry if my presence threatens you somehow. It shouldn't.

Jim G


Jim,

You didn't used to be Junkman on the SOITC board did you?

Joe

[JimGnitecki]

Jim,

You didn't used to be Junkman on the SOITC board did you?

Joe

No. I don't hide behind screen names. :)

Jim G

[porkchop]

I really think you should buy something other than the Tradition, because it's easy to tell you will never be satisfied. You seem fixated on minor things that DO NOT MATTER in the long run and keep trying to compare it to Mobile Suites and other better built units. They ARE NOT the same.

Tradition is not wide bodied, does not have the insulation values, does not have a boxed frame, (it's an I beam) and much, much more. That's why it sells for so much less.

I think you would be happier in a horse trailer. Expecially with the budgetconstraints you keep mentioning.

Bye!

Bill

[JimGnitecki]

If I sound too demanding, I'm sorry, but after owning and living fulltime for 4 months to a year at a time in 3 different types of RVs (pusher, conversion bus, and trailer), I've concluded that a lot of RVs are built with too many built-in potential issues, and I feel that life is too short to spend it trying to deal with those issues.

The industry as a whole, except for a few exceptions, tries too hard to go for sizzle versus "good bones". I realize that this is a result of what people are willing to pay for and what they are not willing to pay for. Unfortunately, it means way too many RVs have some or even all of the following issues:

- Water leaks from the exterior, that remain hidden until the damage is fairly severe, caused by too many shell joints or shell joints that require too much maintenance to remain reliably watertight

- Water leaks from plumbing, that remain hidden until the damage is fairly severe, caused by cheap plumbing components and unskilled or rushed workmanship

- Unreliable electric and/or electronic systems that fail, caused by cheap components or improper installation, and by a general focus on providing whiz bang features to wow the buyers, ignoring the unreliability introduced by the bad combination of cheap components and iffy workmanship

- The use of heavy components because they are cheaper to use in the build process than more sophisticated lightweight solutions. Examples include waferboard which is heavy and easily damaged by water leaks, I-beams because they require less labor than box beams, stacked beams because they require less welding and labor than engineered space frames, plywood floors and roof skins that are heavy and easily damaged by water leaks

- The use of so many slides per unit that basic structural integrity of the RV is severely compromised, leading to cracks in sidewall skins, and almost no ability to handle minor accidents

- The use of "one button does all 4 slides" systems that prevent either movement or use of the RV when they mess up

For me, the attractions of an RV lifestyle are supposed to include simplicity and low stress. But leak potential and its resulting severe damage, having to buy and maintain a BIG diesel tow vehicle, towing 7 to 10 TONS on hilly and rainy highways, and electrical and electronic failures that irritate, or worse prevent usage (e.g. slide problems, leveling system problems), are not consistent with simplicity and low stress.

It looks to me that the most reliable and simplest RV solutions are not marketed primarily as RVs, but rather as horse trailers (for hauling horses and housing their owners at shows) and race trailers (for hauling racecars or racing motorcycles and housing their owners at race tracks). Those 2 solutions seem to have their emphasis on the right things: reliability and durability. Maybe because horse owners and racecar owners won't tolerate having to do constant maintenance on their trailers - they are too busy focusing on their animals and race vehicles, which are their moneymakers and the things they enjoy doing in life.

I wish that the same philosophy used on horse trailers and race trailers would be applied to RVs.

Unfortunately, I can't quite adopt either of those 2 solutions by the looks of it. I can't finance a horse trailer with my current combination of income, credit score, and desire to avoid making my Social Security taxable via a big 401k withdrawal. And used versus new horse trailers that are 8.5' wide and 40' long are too rare (Most are "narrow body" - some as narrow as 6'8"). I can much more easily buy a used race trailer for surprisingly low prices (when a racer decides he wants a bigger one, he generally sells the current one for a pretty reaosnable price from what I have seen!), but my rssearch shows that race trailers have 2 characteristics that are not good:

1. They usually have pretty "basic" living quarters, because the race wants to put as much of his scarce cash as possible into parts that will make his car go faster and thus let him win more prize money and sponsor support, and

2. The rear half of the trailer - the car garage - generally has NO windows (for security reasons), and adding windows to a trailer that does not have the proper framing from the factory for them, is always very costly (trailer has to be unskinned and new framing members welded in) and often utterly impractical.

A "vendor" trailer has the robust construction of the horse and race car trailers, but is seldom anywhere near 40 feet long - they are usually about half that length.

Still looking. I'm very persistent. :)

Jim G

[Joezilla]

Ummmm...........explain to me again why you are discussing racer trailers, horse trailers, and Carriage Domani trailers in a DRV area of this website?

I truly do not get it.

Joe

[JimGnitecki]

Ummmm...........explain to me again why you are discussing racer trailers, horse trailers, and Carriage Domani trailers in a DRV area of this website?

I truly do not get it.

Joe

Because those are the alternatives I see to a DRV. Why on a DRV forum? Because DRV is the BEST of the consumer RVs that I have found, unless you go to truly ridiculously expensive choices like high end customs.

But a DRV still has rubber over plywood roof, and plywood floors, and houses that need to do 60 mph in rain just don't seal that well unless their roofs and walls are as close to one-piece as possible. And, DRVs are very heavy.

Sigh . . .

Hard to see a great solution.

Jim G

[Joezilla]

Because those are the alternatives I see to a DRV. Why on a DRV forum? Because DRV is the BEST of the consumer RVs that I have found, unless you go to truly ridiculously expensive choices like high end customs.

Sigh . . .

Hard to see a great solution.

Jim G

Why on a DRV forum would we want to discuss alternatives to DRV's? I don't think you "get" it.

Your last post states that DRV is the BEST you have found, but then you go on to denigrate their construction.

I feel that you will still be around several months or years after today, still trying to find that "holy grail" RV that meets your expectations, both in build quality and cost.

The solution is to purchase a DRV, but you don't want to spend the money obviously.

Sigh.

Joe

[GlennWest]

Well you paint a very negative view of 5thers. I agree quality is a minus on most modern mass produced units. My Teton is trouble free. It is warm and easy to cool. It looks very good inside and out. We are very satisfied with it and we are hard to please. Yes it is heavy, but we have solid oak trim, cabinets (lots of them too), etc. Lots of storage and a 6' + man can walk upright anywhere in it. We have 3 large slides. Really opens up unit and makes a very roomy living experience. What you are considering I wouldn't. There are some very nice units on the market. You don't have to spend a lot of money either.

[golf_bears]

"After owning and living fulltime for 4 months to a year at a time in 3 different types of RVs (pusher, conversion bus, and trailer)", your words.

Why with so much experience with RVs are you on this forum heckling DRV owners with all you foolish counter banter? Will you please just move on.

[JimGnitecki]

"After owning and living fulltime for 4 months to a year at a time in 3 different types of RVs (pusher, conversion bus, and trailer)", your words.

Why with so much experience with RVs are you on this forum heckling DRV owners with all you foolish counter banter? Will you please just move on.

I have.

Jim G

[missourijan]

Wow, golf_bears you said it much better than me. But Glenn West continues to post on the Drv sites to tell us how much better his Teton is than the Drv and you aren't flaming him??? just sayin. . . . .

[golf_bears]

missourijan (http://www.5thwheelforums.com/forums/member.php?u=760),
Nice to hear from you.

The point I was trying to make was that folks should be on this forum to share their experiences and opinions. When they get counterpunched for sharing those experiences and opinions it is time for the counterpuncher to move on.

Guys like Wingnut60, billr and porkchop have a lot of RV knowledge and I for one really appreciate their contributions to the forums. They’ve helped me a number of times with great solutions to RV issues. I hope they continue sharing with us.

GlennWest is also a very good contributor with lots of RV experience. Again, I appreciate his input even if he’s moved on to a Teton. I could care less if DRV is better than Tetons or vice versa. I’m happy with my MS.

Also your comments and experiences are also welcome. I take no offence in your post.

I hope this thread doesn’t turn into a P--P—contest. We’re all adults here and as long as we keep it that way we’ll all be happy campers.

Hope we meet up with you on the road someday. Happy Trails.

[GlennWest]

Why would someone fame me? I have not downed DRV. Ours was, I believe, was one that slipped through the cracks. We had way too many quality issues. Our DRV was a beautiful unit. We enjoyed it. The Teton is a step up from DRV. But Teton costs more than DRV so no put down there. I do believe one can get a bad unit in any of them. But that is not the norm. But there are several high end orphans out there for low dollars. The OP really need to look at them and reconsider his reasoning. Side note: I waste time posting in Teton section. It is dead.

[Maverick]

No I haven't, BUT, right now, this is the best USED deal we can see in our local market area. No used DRVs that are anywhere close to our financial abilities - that 2015 Tradition was the best DRV deal in this market area, and we could not get financing that would work for us.

There are a couple of Redwoods within 200 miles, but the least costly one is a 2013 asking $50K.

So, the used Carriage Domani is the OPPOSITE of "he has already made his mind up". It's a flexible response to an impediment in the way of getting the DRV.

I'm still asking for specific reasons that the Domani would be a poor choice, and haven't yet seen any presented to me here. :)

Jim G

I also think you made up your mind. You're in a defensive mode by your responses. You ask for our opinion, take it or leave it. Don't raise your hackles or get angry. If you can not afford a DRV, then why is it in the running and why are you asking. I believe the last year the Carriage’s Domani was produced was 2010. Is there a reason it's gone? Were they dropped because they didn't sell or was it because of the RV Industry Slaughter. There are only a few privately owned RV manufactures out there... I believe the last RV Industry Slaughter was because One Bank carried everyone. Are we headed that way again? At times it looks that way. If they would concern themselves with QUALITY rather than QUANTITY we'd all be happier.

(http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVvOJCjRWrm4ArAcnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByNXM5bzY 5BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1446279946/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.trailerlife.com%2freviews%2ftr ailer-reviews%2fcarriages-domani-df302%2f/RK=0/RS=y37TnlbiDhIU9QmtPflnpKvg3wI-)

[Maverick]

Because those are the alternatives I see to a DRV. Why on a DRV forum? Because DRV is the BEST of the consumer RVs that I have found, unless you go to truly ridiculously expensive choices like high end customs.

But a DRV still has rubber over plywood roof, and plywood floors, and houses that need to do 60 mph in rain just don't seal that well unless their roofs and walls are as close to one-piece as possible. And, DRVs are very heavy.

Sigh . . .

Hard to see a great solution.

Jim G


If those are the alternatives that YOU see to a DRV, then go buy a horse trailer. We own DRV's for a reason... When you figure that out, you might own one also! By the way how are you going to tow your RV?