Pocket door

[Gemstone]

So, we are stopped for the night on the east side of the Sierras, on the way from Yuma to Oregon, not a bad road....open the rig and find that the pocket door has come loose from the flimsy ceiling mounting, track and all, and is wedged solid in between the shower and the kitchen cabinets....it won't budge. And of course there is no place to get any leverage to push it back in place....so it'll have to ride that way until we reach our summer destination. I may have to remove the cabinets piece by piece until I have room to facilitate a proper repair. Naturally there weren't enough screws holding the track in place, and those they did use are maybe 1/2" long....grrrr.
Anyone know what is in the ceiling that the track is fastened to ? It looks like a piece of 1/4" plywood is covering something, but I can't see up in there to get a good look. Anyone make this repair ?

Regards
Gemstone

[bstark]

Many, many of us have had that problem.

On our old 05, if memory serves, there was an aluminum roof truss cross member directly over the pocket door track.

You may be able to access the bottom of the door through your cargo area as that cavity is open to below to act as a cold air return for the furnace. I was able to lift my door up by going into that area while being careful to not squash the plastic ductwork

I removed the trim piece at the top of doorway, bedroom side, to facilitate adjustment after re-attaching with longer screws and more of them to boot.

I put a bunch more in than there were holes in the track for by simply drilling more holes to spread the load of that, rather heavy, door jouncing and that worked until we sold the rig.

There is a wooden spacer block jammed up into the track you must remove to get at one of the screws at the rear of the track.

The key is to make sure the door is adjusted correctly for height so that the safety latch at the bottom stays engaged in it's hole while that door is bouncing up and down.

If you can lift the door so that the pin clears that hole it will inevitably jump out going down the road ~ Murphy's law.

[Cheif 2]

Gemstone,
Your lucky yours lasted as long as it did. Mine fell off the first couple of trips I took. I did the same as bstark to repair mine.

[Gemstone]

Thanks Bruce....don't you miss all the fun and games these rigs provide ?

Chief 2....yeah, years wise we have been lucky, but our life style dictates we stay in one place for months at a time, we move twice a year so it's not likely the rig has traveled 20K miles in the 7 years we've been on the road.

Regards
Gemstone

[chevman]

Gemstone.
I helped Jack in Alaska fix the same problem as you are having. We removed the door and built a drill setup to remove the track and then bored extra holes and used the (Jack's design drill setup) to screw the track in place. It was a 2 man job with a few extra words at times. Then jack built up the bottom to allow the holding pin to go deeper and not let it jump out. Of course the screws that came out of the track were at the back. If you need the thin wrench to adjust the front and back rollers I can send you one. I have installed many of that brand of pocket doors in new homes and of course I could not throw away a tool.
chevman

[Motor31]

Ours fell into the basement the very first trip down the road. less than 150 miles. We never even made it out of Indiana. The three 1.5" screws were no where near enough to handle the load. It took about eight 3" screws to secure the track and door back into the ceiling. Access was made via the so called air return vent above the kitchen pantry. The door had to be pushed up from below in the basement behind the sliding partition.

[Gemstone]

Motor....Boy did you get lucky to get 1 1/2" screws.... they must have run outta those and used 1/2" instead when they built this rig.

Chevman, thanks for the tool offer, I'll let you know after I dig into the mess in a couple of days.

Regards
Gemstone[/i]

[Gemstone]

Started digging into the repair of the door and track, I really don't see how a proper repair can be accomplished without taking the kitchen cabinets apart to get to the door and fasten the track back to the ceiling at the concealed end of the track. There is no way to raise the door without access via the removed cabinets. And without fastening the track at that end, there will be no support, much like the factory installation. For those who have done this repair, how did you reach the track deep inside the cavity between the cabinets and the shower stall ? I did find a piece of 1x2 wood (cheap a$$ lauan, which has no holding power....it might just as well have been balsawood) above the 1/4" plywood, which is directly above the door track...I wonder what's above this ?

Regards
Gemstone

[Cheif 2]

I am not at the camper, but if memory serves me there was an access panel inside the pantry that allowed me to get to the back of the door at the bottom. I was able to lift the door and remove it from the track. You have to remove the trim panel on the bedroom side to get to the track and door rollers. They have a tab you move to unlock them and then you can take it off the track. The door is heavy. I then beefed up the track with longer screws.

[Gemstone]

"I then beefed up the track with longer screws'....I intend to do this...and possible replace that cheap a$$ Lauan with something like oak, but again, what did you do to re-attach the track deep inside the cavity ? Maybe I'm missing something, but without fastening the recessed end of the track, the failure is very likely to reoccur. I see no way to reattach the track without either cutting a new, larger access hole, or removing the cabinet entirely. I'd also like to engineer a lower track to help support the door, again, this could best be done without the cabinet in my way.
As for the access panel I can see where you could be able to get enough leverage to raise the door in order to slide it forward toward the opening, then remove it from the track, but that still leaves the dilemma of reattaching the track deep within the cavity.

Thanks for the feedback
Gemstone

[chevman]

On some or this forum Jack in Alaska had a complete report on how we did his with pictures I think. The track needs to come out. I bored extra holes so we could screw where it was easier not just where the original holes were, It was a 2 man job with the Jacks engineered tool setup. I hope Jack can report to you. It was a tough job to remove the door because the opposite wall didn't leave much room. the hand rail had to be removed. Just for information if and where you remove the track be sure to re install the rollers with 2 of the 3 rollers on one side and with the other having the 2 on the other side of the track or it will hang out of level. I am guessing yours is the same company as Jacks or what we have on the alpenlite for hardware. labarn67@gmail.com

chevman

[chevman]

I just did a search. Ask about Jack in Alaska. It will be down on the list under berghild on Mon Nov 24 2008 4:01 PM



chevman

[Cheif 2]

Its been a few years since I did it, but I believe that I put the longer screws in as far back as I could reach and they have been holding. Please keep in mind that I haven't moved the camper since Oct. 2010, but my fix lasted over some pretty rough roads traveling to Alaska and back.

[Gemstone]

From bergchild: "DH removed the large grate above the pantry...never even knew it was there because of a decorative item"...
I forgot it was there too, I'll look into that as a "window of opportunity" to get the track refastened.


Thanks
Gemstone

[jdwilson3]

That's how I fixed mine..removed the "return air" grill above the pantry. I then used deck screws to resecure the track. Never had any issues after that.

[chevman]

On the 2004 MS it would need a hole cut on the kitchen side. I was going to help Jack to this but being an engineer he wanted to figure it his way. It was his trailer so ok with me. John you sold your fifth after you fixed it so maybe it is back into the basement again with the new owner. I could not resist that comment. :lol:

chevman

[terry and jo]

Is this the other link for the subject of the Pocket Door that you referred to? The reason I ask is because I didn't see any photos. If it isn't, I'll see if I can find another thread on the pocket door repairs elsewhere.

http://www.5thwheelforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2500&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=jack+alaska

Terry

[chevman]

Yes Terry that was Jack's post but no pictures. I will email Jack and ask if he has the pictures and can show them on this forum.
chevman

[Gemstone]

So, I waited for some qualified help to tackle the pocket door....good thing, the DW would have stormed off in anger...he just grinned.

Took off the "air return" grill above the pantry, and with a lot of prying and blocking from that access hole we were able to at least get the door and track somewhat and temporarily positioned back in place. I discovered some hastily added (by the factory) 3/4" Cad. plated 3/4" wood screws right inside the grill access hole, just drilled up through the door track. What that tells me is that sometime after my rig was built, but before it was delivered to me, the fine "Amish craftsmen", responding to prior pocket door failures, found a quick and dirty way of "fixing" the issue.....by just adding 2, 3/4" screws....there were still several factory screw holes in the track left unused....grrr...damn incompetent jack legs.

I was able to get 1 1/2" hex head self tapping screws in each of the factory track holes, and the two Amish holes, to total 9 screws now holding the track in place. Without disassembling the pantry, there was no way to install a bottom support track, so for now, the door repair is complete.

For those owners who have yet to investigate the type/size/quantity of screws installed by the factory in the pocket door track......ya better do it now.

Thanks to all for the previous comments about the repair process.

Regards
Gemstone

[Motor31]

It seems that one of the ways drv economises is to use a very limited number of sizes of screws. That means they are often too long for some applications and for other heavier duty applications too small and weak. The pocket door is a great example of a lack of fore thought about it.

Save a couple pennies here and there and dump the repair on the dealers who are less than equiped to deal with the inadequacies of the design / factory screw ups.

[Cummins12V98]

It seems that one of the ways drv economises is to use a very limited number of sizes of screws. That means they are often too long for some applications and for other heavier duty applications too small and weak. The pocket door is a great example of a lack of fore thought about it.

Save a couple pennies here and there and dump the repair on the dealers who are less than equiped to deal with the inadequacies of the design / factory screw ups.

Their biggest problem is drilling thru metal with self drilling screws then into wood. The problem is that type screw destroys the integrity of the wood.

Perfect example is the bedroom slide fiasco.

[bstark]

That is exactly the problem. They are time constrained to push rigs past a station by the end of the work week to qualify for the wage make-up bonus.

Given that scenario; whatever function the guy is tasked with; he now does with just one type of screw in his belt pouch and one torque setting on his air powered gun. Sort of a one-size-fits-all conundrum.

They've only been doing stuff like this since the early 04's and you'd think theyd correct the issues brought to light with over-torqued exterior roofing trim screws missing their heads and coverd up with caulking to disguise the error among many other issues related to using wrong fasteners and settings for screwguns.

That pocket door overhead track is a generic item designed for residential usage and, if recollection serves correctly, has a number of holes for the event that it is used for heavier hardwood framed glass doors. Why then wouldn't they use every single hole to mount that track given the up and down jouncing these things are subjected to?

[Motor31]

Why wouldn't they use every hole? Simple. Each screw costs money. Each minute the employee spends on the job on each unit costs money. More units past the employee per day means less cost per unit for manufacturer and a greater markup rate for the factory. It may cost $X to manufacture each unit and they charge the dealer $Y for each unit to maintain a priofit margin for the factory. The dealer then charges $Z to make his profit so at each level the unit has made the chain money. Every dollar that is saved in manufacturing is another dollar profit. Labor is probably the single most expensive part of the manufacturing equation per unit. Less time per unit to get it out the factory door = less cost per unit to make it.

Given that it's common knowledge that the starting point for negotiation in purchase of the RV is about 30% below MSRP you can figure that the real break even point for the factory is probably about 30% of the MSRP for actual cost to them for manufacturing the unit. That will also include the wholesale cost of the apliances they install. Figure that those were purchased at at LEAST 50% of the MSRP for those units and more likely less than 45% so they make more money on them as well. Every unit that sells for MSRP make a very lucrative profit all down the line.

It used to be that the then Mobile Suites company had a 2 year warranty. Then they said they "improved" so they reduced the warranty to 1 year. Hardly a recognition of "improved" product, just a reduction in liability costs for each unit. Every one that makes it past a year in private ownership is one less drain on the profit margin. Most part time RVers can get past a year without much trouble, especially those that do not know how to do a good inspection upon delivery.