DRV quality?

[George D]

We have been researching 5th wheels for several years. We had been interested in the Mobile Suite. Recently we have talked to people who own 2010-2012 models and have read a lot on-line. They are supoposed to be the some of the best out there but there seems to be some serious quality/quality control issues on these year Mobile Suites. Can anyone speak to this. What is the problem at the factory and why can't they get their act together? What's going on???
George

[Motorcycle Jack]

I have no clue about earlier DRV's and their quality. But I was in at least 50 different products at two shows before I bought my 2011 TKSB3. Only things close were the Excel and New Horizon's. Didn't like Excels history of wood rot. NH also had some problems with the unit they were showing so didn't think much of their support to put a non working unit in the show.

I think all mfg's have problems with some units. it's YOUR responsibility to inspect the unit thoroughly to ensure it is done correct. If you can't do it, then hire someone who can. What's another $500 to ensure you have a perfect unit. They ARE made by humans after all.

[Motor31]

Short answer is simple. Cost of manufacture and the need to slam them out the door as fast and as cheaply as they can.

There has been a history of this back into the early days of 04 on. They slap the things together by using amish workers who are paid on the basis of getting their work quota done. As soon as they have finished their daily requirement they are out the door on the way back to their farms. I have personally seen them start as early as 7 AM and out the door on the way home by noon or before.

They also do not spend time making sure that the tools are set to the proper torque so that screws can be and are often tightened until they break. Rather than removing the broken screw they dab a bit of caulk on the end and stick the screw head in the caulk. DRV saves money by using as few different size screws as possible so that smaller ones are used where larger stronger ones would be proper.

They do not have wiring diagrams. They just put the wires in as they go depending on what is supposed to be in each unit. This can make for interesting times for the owner in figuring things out especially in the entertainment area. They had a significant problem in wiring connections for multiple years. They did not insure that bayonet style connections were tight or that the switches were rated for the load they were putting on them. This resulted in arcing, hot switches and melted insulation.

There are other issues like cutting holes in the lower wiper seals to maintain clearance with the slide rollers. That made for free flow ventilation into the unit whether you wanted it or not. Some rollers got left out in the mid point of the larger slides leading to contact with the floor in slide operation.

Three are lots of other issues. If you look back over the earlier threads in the site you'll see plenty of things listed including hydraulic lines and fittings.

[hitchup]

Recently we have talked to people who own 2010-2012 models and have read a lot on-line. They are supoposed to be the some of the best out there but there seems to be some serious quality/quality control issues on these year Mobile Suites. Can anyone speak to this.

Well, George, we owned a 2006 Elite Suite after SOB. It was a leaker and had some minor wiring problems with the furnace. But after going on a factory tour, we decided to order a custom unit.

It's been fairly problem free. One small leak at the rear window after over 3 yrs, fixed with some silicone. Outside steps dropped after 2 yrs, but was rewelded inexpensive repair by mobile welder. Cracked shower skylight leak, factory sent free replacement and paid for replacement when we had some other work done on the Suite. Stress fracture outside of bedroom slideout after over 3.5 yrs, factory reimbursed us for labor for Mobile tech and sent out repair kit. One recall for paint on wheels, fixed by same Mobile tech fully paid direct via factory.

I, too, have read about the numerous issues with some of the newer units. I think it may once again be too many orders to fill and pushing units out the door.

But IF we had the money, wouldn't hesitate to order a new Elite Suite.

[missourijan]

We bought our 2nd Drv last Oct. Our first was a 2007 Select, we ordered & picked it up in MO and immediately took off for CA, daughter was pregnant with triplets and we had to get there asap. We didn't take it back to a dealer for almost a whole year. We had one problem and that was the black tank valve handle came loose from where it was crimped to the cable. There happened to be a mobile repair guy in the park and he fixed it in 10 min. We purchased a 2012 Mobile Suite 36RSSB3 off the lot. Before we left the BR slide went wonky, turns out the factory knew of the problem and started putting bigger rollers on that elec slide about a month after they built ours. Would it have mad too much sense to track the ones they've built and sent the parts out to fix them? When we left, we again headed for Ca for the winter, and are just making our way back to the midwest. In Phoenix our LR ac went out and had to be replaced when it was 112. That wasn't Drv's fault. Other than those issues we have some small things that can wait until we get to Wheels RV in Springdale, AR to fix. Like others have said, they are built by humans under deadlines. We had some foggy windows on our Select and the factory support was excellent, I would buy another Drv product. There are a lot of other owners that agree, many owners are on their 2nd or 3rd Drv.

[George D]

Thanks for the info folks - I would certainly like to hear from more who own (or knows someone who owns) a relatively new Mobile Suite.

I understand that there is some responsibility on the new owner but disagree that the owner should have to replace the quality control person at the factory. If I pay $40,000 for a car, I expect it to be complete and reasonably trouble-free. And they usually are. And if I pay $100k for a trailer, I would expect a reasonable amount of quality build/quality control.

I understand that there is a dealer who has stopped selling Mobile Suite's because of all the problems they have been having. Is that true? Should I look for an older one?

Thanks.

[terry and jo]

We've got a 2010 Mobile Suites and while there have been a few problems, none were major. We sold our home and property and live full time in ours in Oklahoma City. (At least until we retire.)

If you do consider used, check with Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. They started out buying used DRV products at auction after they had been repossessed. They are now a full DRV dealer and have sold a bunch.

http://www.rollingretreats.com/

They are a "mom and pop" type place and only sell DRV's or whatever gets traded for a DRV. They are good folks.

While we were researching for our Mobile Suites, there were lots of complaints about problems. However, every manufacturer has problems but DRV has a good reputation for working with their customers.

Terry

[billr]

No real relationship with $ spent and issues of RVs! No matter what the RV, MH, high end fiver, or entry level unit. They ALL have issues of some kind. Some folks luck out and get a unit that is relatively problem free, and but most don't.

As much as we would like to say, spend $100K for an RV and expect it to be perfect it will not be. So many high end MH owners spending way more than we do for a MS go through huge issues.

Really too bad. We learned this when we bought the MS in 06. Thinking it would be so much better than our previous Fleetwood units. It is way nicer, but sure had its share of issues. A lot more than we had on the previous SOBs.

DRV was always great to respond to issues and send parts. Extended warranty also helped!

So, do the research, sort through the non-sense, pick the one with the equipment and layout you like and can drive the best deal and go for it!

Just my 2 cents. ha

Bill

[BlueSkyRanch]

After owning 4 towables, 1 class C, 1 class A gas and a class A deisel, in 2010 we decided to buy a MS and love it. I have been back to the factory each year for several weeks at a time for repairs. If I wasn't retired I would be very unhappy. But I have the time to wait and have the repairs done right. To date, they have replaced 70% of my windows due to fogging and in August they will replace one for the second time. This issue relates to Herh windows who are suppose to be top of the line. If I were DRV I would be looking for another manufacturer. Much like they did for the window shades. Hydraulics is another issue and this relates to Lippert, another leader in the field. So far they have replaced the landing gears, installed a new, larger manifold and replumbed the system. So far so good.

While many people will say "it's to be expected", I do not. One of the issues with manufacturing RV components is the interaction of human hands vs robots or other methods that produce the same product each time. A good example is we bought a 2010 King Ranch when we bought the MS. It is the best vehicle I've ever owned. Zero, zero defects. This should be the vision for DRV.

My final thought. You will never find a better fifth wheel in the market today. Their follow up customer service is impeccable. Oh, and one other thing. Ask around about certified DRV repair facilities. They vary greatly as well. I recommend Paul Cross, Indiana Interstate, LaGrange, IN and Land Yaughts in Jupiter, FL. Both shops are impeccable facilities. If you want to know about the poor ones, email me and I will talk. LOL

Good luck.





We have been researching 5th wheels for several years. We had been interested in the Mobile Suite. Recently we have talked to people who own 2010-2012 models and have read a lot on-line. They are supoposed to be the some of the best out there but there seems to be some serious quality/quality control issues on these year Mobile Suites. Can anyone speak to this. What is the problem at the factory and why can't they get their act together? What's going on???
George

[George D]

Wow - this is just all over the place! Some love 'em, some hate 'em! In consideration of all the info from all the different sources, I think I'll sit by the roadside for a bit and see if DRV improves their quality. Meanwhile I'll take a closer look at some other brands. I hope that someone from DRV reads these posts and is objective enough to realize they have a problem that needs to be addressed. I like the design, floor plan, etc. but they definitely need to bring the quality back!!!

I have heard great things about Tiffin's quality - could there be lessons learned from them?

I also hear that Carriage has started up under a different name. Does anyone know anything about that??

Thanks to everyone who piped in - we really appreciate it.

[terry and jo]

Carriage's problems were with financing with their bank. If they had secured more financing, I don't know why they wouldn't have used their old name. What I did here at one time, but cannot recall where or from whom, some of the people who worked for Carriage either went to another company or started their own.

If they started their own, I'd have to want to know what the skills of the people were that started the venture. In other words, were the former Carriage workers able to fill positions in every aspect of design and construction? If not, there could be flaws in either design or construction.

Terry

[George D]

Thank you Terry. Those would be my concerns as well. I am going to do some checking as I know several people with Carriage products. They have been very happy with them and were disappointed when Carriage went out. I know that several would have purchased new Carriage units.

If any of you folks reading this have connections at DRV, tell them to clean up their act. I would really rather buy a Mobile Suite if they can bring the quality back but can't wait forever!

[morscuba]

It's now called "Lifestyle luxury RV" They are on the web.

[billr]

I have heard great things about Tiffin's quality - could there be lessons learned from them?

I also hear that Carriage has started up under a different name. Does anyone know anything about that??


Have run into some pretty upset Tiffin owners with quality issues and waits for repairs. They do have a pretty large repair facility from what I hear. Like I mentioned, no matter what make or model you will find issues. DRV stands behind the product though and that makes a difference. At least they are still around after the failure of so many RV manufactures.

Carriage are nice as well. But not without the issues that plague the rest. It is too bad they went under.

We liked the NUWA units and toured the factory in KS last Oct. Spoke with a lot of folks waiting for factory repairs while there. Some waiting weeks just to get in. Appointments were 90days out! They have a huge building and yard for repairs and it was full. The campground up the street was full too waiting. This tends to tip the scale for us.

Still repetitive issues are unacceptable in my view. I also hope they get sorted out.

Bill

[hitchup]

I have heard great things about Tiffin's quality - could there be lessons learned from them?

I also hear that Carriage has started up under a different name. Does anyone know anything about that??

Thanks to everyone who piped in - we really appreciate it.

Funny you should bring up Tiffin. We thought we might go with a Tiffin MH once we are retired. But then I read posts over this last year about how they changed the roofline and have problem after problem. Lots of rebuilds, which for working fulltimer's like us, that puts a crimp in our living arrangements.

This is typical of all mfging. Someone for some unknown reason, possibly to improve aerodynamics or fuel consumption, makes a change and whoops we have a defect.

The Carriage line was bought at auction earlier this year by Redwood (part of Thor corp). During that 2008 factory tour I mentioned earlier, we went on a Carriage tour the day before with a Cameo owner the only other person. He had gone on the DRV tour and couldn't stop raving about how much better the DRV tour was. Then his friend showed up for the DRV tour and he oooed and awwed throughout the whole thing. THAT's one of the main reason we opted to order another Suite. Up until we did, I really wanted a Royal's International to replace our Elite.

I highly recommend multiple factory tours before you make any decision.

http://www.carriageinc.com/ for info on new owners of Carriage.

Vickie

[dalehandsome]

We have a 2010 TKSB3 Mobile Suits and have lived in it full time for over two years now. It has performed beautifully and we have had only a few DRV related problems. The storage door on the door side did warp and DRV sent us a new and thicker replacement door. Our two largest complaints are the cabinet door latches and the fact they did not have walk in closets in 2010. We spent our first summer in Macon, Georgia and are now in Smithville, Missouri. Both cities have very hot and humid climates in the summer. We recently experienced several consecutive days of 100+ degrees and our air conditioners have managed to keep us comfortable at all times. We have never found another 5th wheel with the insulation value, or build quality of the DRV units. We have never had any issues with our double pane windows fogging up or our Dometic refrigerator not performing well. All hydraulics work as designed. I am now “knocking on wood” on our beautiful desk!!! I had more issues with our first SB house, which we had custom built back in the 70s.

I spent the majority of my adult life as a professional photographer and used the once famous Hasselblad camera for most of my professional life. The Hasselblad was a very expensive and well designed and built camera. It is the same camera that went on the first trip to the Moon and is still there. It was used by NASA on many space excursions. As well built as this camera was, it still broke down on occasion. I am now retired and reluctantly moved into the digital world. I now photograph with a Canon 5D Mark11 camera. This camera produces absolutely fantastic images and has features I will never use. It is the camera of my dreams, and yet, I continually read on forums where people are unhappy with one thing or another.

Do your homework and check out all the manufacturers and visit the factories. Then pick the unit of your dreams, order it and enjoy it. Be warned however, regardless of what you order, you will have an occasional problem. That is just the way life is.

I recently had both knees replaced. As beautiful and as well designed as our God created bodies are, I have never met anyone with a perfect one.

We researched 5th wheels for two years before we purchased. We felt we purchased the best there was and have not been disappointed. If we had the money, we would purchase a new 2013 DRV with the walk in closet.

www.dalehandsome.smugmug.com

[George D]

Once again, a lot of great info - thanks to all!

Info from you folks and other sources seems to track, Most are in agreement that the DRV design is one of, if not the, best but the company really needs to step up the quality in the production phase and PDI phase. The defective Lippert frames is concerning though! Bad foundation - bad house! Time for DRV to make it's own frames OR get some quality ones elsewhere!!!

[47hook]

I appear to have had similar experience as daleandsome has had with his MS. Our 07 36TK3 had a few issues but nothing of real significance. And definitely 0 problems with the Lippert/TrailAir manufactured items. Quality control can always improve but I can't recall any problems reported with the frames on DRV products so why say DRV should build their own frames?

If our on order 38RESB3 MS is as trouble free, more or less, as our 07 then we will be very happy.

[Pat L.]

George D.,
Everyone has given you some good info. Hook has forgotten about Jerry Sharp in Mo. that has a twisted frame and Lippert welded some gusset plates in without trying to take the twist out. I have had axle problems, like 3 sets and still wear the tires. I will have the axles aligned in Tampa, Fl..
While we were at the factory in April of this year we were treated very well. DRV stepped up to the plate and had Herr replace ALL of the windows, Lippert replace the axles again and installed new tires. If I have a problem with my 2010 MS TKSB4 I just call and the factory guides me through the repair or replacement process.
No one is in business to not make a profit and as much as they can. A good profit margin just ensures that they should still be in business when you might need them.
While we were at the factory, my wife the questions of quality control, and here is there answer. Several new people have been brought in to head up that department as DRV has noticed several issues that they wanted to take care of. (Frame Issues): Lippert makes the frames, axles, breaks and many other items. DRV can not make the frames for a reasonable cost nor do they have the space to do so. Auto manufactures don't make all of their parts.
DRV goes the extra mile to help you with issues but with some 7 - 8K units out on the road at this time they can't take care of everyone yesterday. I was very upset that I had to drag my coach 1200 miles to get it worked on but sure was glad that I did. DRV are GREAT people to deal with and you would be WISE to step into the world of ownership as so many of us have.
Life is not perfect but it sure helps to own a DRV product.
The above statements are of my own and not of anyone else.
Pat D. Laurendine
#5401 MS TKSB4

[rotaxman]

George,

Just go to NuWa and get yourself a Hitchhiker NuWa has forgot more about 5th wheel trailers than DRV will ever know. NuWa pioneered the 5th wheel concept and have been building 5th wheels for over 30 years.

They use a Youngs welding frame which is the best in the business. Except for a brief period when NuWa go the same illness that DRV has and went with Lippert junk the Young's frames have been flawless.

As for the Lippert frames I've got one of those lost camber frames that Lippert provided and that DRV decided to use under my 09. (no quality control in the frame department at DRV or Lippert).

As for defects sure in a large complex trailer like these there is going to some trouble that I expect if the automobile manufactures operated like DRV they would all be belly up.

As always good camping
Joyce and Jerry

[billr]

FWIW, I am no big fan of Lippert stuff, but good luck these days finding a single RV without some sort of Lippert components. They own a bunch of the smaller companies including Dexter. Even good ol NUWA has some Lippert slide units in their units. That shocked me when we toured the factory in KS last Oct.

Since Lippert supplies frames to the majority of tow behinds we will be stuck with it. NUWA excepted. Which I really liked their build. We will be looking at the NUWA very hard when the time comes to change out. Price may win out though as they are a good deal more out the door after discounts than the DRV (similar equipment). I do like the Big Foot leveling they offer and a few other build ideas. But I also like several of the things DRV does that NUWA doesn't.

Find the one ya like and go for it. Its only $$ haar!

Bill

[rotaxman]

Hey Joan and Bill,

How are you all doing?? Good I hope.

I agree Bill I'm no fan of Lippert or Dometic both company's produce very very poor quality components.

I talked with Ed Downs I believe that's his name at the Kc Rv show about NuWa making a mistake and using some Lippert frames on some of the Hitchhikers and Champagne's.

He told me that NuWa had tired quickly of Lipperts poor quality and they were sent packing. He also told me that the Young's frames were not cheap.

I responded that I would be willing to pay more to get more as I had one of those junk Lippert frames under my 09 Mobile Suite.

You are correct about Lippert buying out everyone when you have a poor product like Lippert or Dometic you have three choices either you start building a quality product, you go belly up or you buy out your competiiton.

In the case with Dometic and Lippert they buy out the other guys and continue on building poor quality products.

As always good camping
Joyce and Jerry

[chevman]

FWIW, I am no big fan of Lippert stuff, but good luck these days finding a single RV without some sort of Lippert components. They own a bunch of the smaller companies including Dexter. Even good ol NUWA has some Lippert slide units in their units. That shocked me when we toured the factory in KS last Oct.

Since Lippert supplies frames to the majority of tow behinds we will be stuck with it. NUWA excepted. Which I really liked their build. We will be looking at the NUWA very hard when the time comes to change out. Price may win out though as they are a good deal more out the door after discounts than the DRV (similar equipment). I do like the Big Foot leveling they offer and a few other build ideas. But I also like several of the things DRV does that NUWA doesn't.

Find the one ya like and go for it. Its only $$ haar!

Bill



HH has had lots of bedroom slide problems from the Lippert install.
chevman

[billr]

[quote="rotaxman"]Hey Joan and Bill,

How are you all doing?? Good I hope.



Great Jerry, thanks! Hope you are both well too! We are in the middle of a busy season here at the KOA in Sault Ste Marie. Lots of folks on the road this year. Had some MS in early on and have had some HH in this week. They seem to enjoy the HH very much.

Its a real crap shoot to get a quality unit. You just never really know. I hope you can get all your issue sorted and enjoy the unit.

We are into another roof structure repair with our 05 MS. Stuff happens I guess.

Cheers,
Bill

[The Spices]

Hello George, Jerry, et al;

As Jerry knows, we are familiar with this subject area. The frame on our 2010 MS went south on the 1st trip out in early 2010. I brought it to Paul Cross (who else!) and after a considerable period of time - NOT Paul's fault, Lippert came tp Paul's shop and made a frame repair. They welded plates on the inside of the frame rails. We are now back at Paul's with similar issues. Lippert has come back out and welded more on the frame. We also have exterior wall delamination issues - Paul will be repairing those. I will make a post in the future to let you know how we made out with DRV and Lippert on these problems.

Herb

[Motor31]

Herb,

I'm curious. How is DRV handling the situation regarding the repairs now that you are out of warranty? I can understand the idea of declining anything that could be construed as "fair wear and tear" repairs, but delamination and frame issues are something else. Are they covering the cost of repairs, giving you a discount on it or just smiling while they take your money to fix their mistakes?

So far, knock on wood, the only frame issue we have had in our 05 was the lack of welds on the shock mounts. About 15 minute total labor with a competent welder took care of that but that was still while we had the then 2 year warranty on the rig. Once the warranty was up they didn't want to hear from us and we ended up taking care of things like the improperly mounted windows and broken slide roller ourselves.

[The Spices]

We are still under the structural warranty so the repairs are being covered. And I am still talking with DRV on a few things so I will not pass judgment on them yet. They have treated us well in the past and we expect the same this time! I read with interest the post about them hiring a couple people to improve quality control - that would be a good move!

[boobytrap]

Sounds to me like they are going from bad to worse ! Why do you think there are 12'000 posts mostly with problems !!!!
I have a 05 RE-3 that is still under WARRANTY !!! YES !!! Warranty because they can,t fix it . Now they won,t even answer my e-mails. I can't see them
staying in business now without Tom Peck.
They did so much work on my frame that they had to put 8000 lbs axels on it.
Also , the hitch part of the frame up inside the trailer broke loose and I
didn;t know it. They, Lippert and DRV had me go to a repair shop in California
and have it repaired and now the screws come out of the front cap when driving down the road and the bedroom floor is coming apart. The shop in Ca. was suposed to fix the floors in both LR and kit.slides but didn.t. They are both coming apart. I could go on and on and on ! I wouldn't but DRV if you don't live
within a 100 miles of the place. By the way.... they took it back to the factory
( from Wa. St.) and had it there 2 months and when it came back the first time I opened the slide , it broke !

LOL

[Maverick]

Carriage's problems were with financing with their bank. If they had secured more financing, I don't know why they wouldn't have used their old name. What I did here at one time, but cannot recall where or from whom, some of the people who worked for Carriage either went to another company or started their own.

If they started their own, I'd have to want to know what the skills of the people were that started the venture. In other words, were the former Carriage workers able to fill positions in every aspect of design and construction? If not, there could be flaws in either design or construction.

Terry

Terry,
EverGreen is starting a new division, which is the high-end fifth-wheel division (Lifestyle Luxury RV). They hired several key Carriage people.

Link: http://www.rvbusiness.com/2011/11/carriage-inc-%E2%80%99s-demise-breeds-new-rv-division/
I'll be surprised if they make it. Some time when you hire, "KEY" people. they end up not so "KEY"!

[terry and jo]

Terry,
EverGreen is starting a new division, which is the high-end fifth-wheel division (Lifestyle Luxury RV). They hired several key Carriage people.

Link: http://www.rvbusiness.com/2011/11/carriage-inc-%E2%80%99s-demise-breeds-new-rv-division/
I'll be surprised if they make it. Some time when you hire, "KEY" people. they end up not so "KEY"![/quote]


Time will tell on that one, and just to touch base on a brand mentioned back in July, Nu-Wa may be very close to going out of business. They are stopping production with October 1 (just a few days back) being the last day to be able to order one. The second news story below says September 15, but on another forum (RV Dreams) someone mentioned and posted the text of an e-mail stating that they would take orders until Oct. 1.

It was also mentioned in a posting at RV Dreams that one could still purchase used ones from the factory in Chanute, KS.

Here are two news articles regarding Nu-Wa.

http://rv-pro.com/news/nuwa-industries-to-cease-production-considering-closure

http://www.rvbusiness.com/tag/nuwa-industries-inc/