Slide roller - fine amish craftsmanship

[Motor31]

Welp I finally got around to adjusting the slide roller assembly in the kitchen slide center half wall. Getting to it was as per the description that I had earlier on this form. Taking out the cabinet floor and backing so I could get to the roller. We pulled the slide in about 3 inches so the slide was not up against the wall on the outside. Nancy used a crow bar to lift the inside nose of the center wall at the rear of the cabinet. I then started to turn the bolt to slide the wedge that elevates the rollers. That's when I noticed a significant resistance. I cleaned up the crud around the threads and applied lube in case there was old lube hardened up. No help. More torque and the bolt head separated from the roller unit.

Now I have a roller assembly supporting a heavy structure with a broken bolt I cannot get out while in place. Fortunately there were only 6 screws holding the support roller unit to the floor. Three were right in front of me. I then looked in the pocket door area fully expecting to see no more of the unit but there was a part of it with 3 more screws. Once the screws were out Nancy again lifted the pocket area and I slid the unit out. The pix show what I found.

First pic shows the unit and broken bolt. The wedge is a threaded unit. The bolt is supposed to slide the wedge towards the rollers raising them. That is if the bolt is inserted the right way into the unit. In this case the fine amish craftsman put it in backwards. Tightening the bolt just kept the wedge going away from the rollers against the side of the unit. Turning it the other way just loosened the nut on the other end of the bolt leaving the wedge motionless.

The other pics just show how the unit operates.

We got the unit installed again rotated the other way. I decided to have the slide rest on the unused roller of the dual roller unit. We adjusted it higher about a 1/4" and tested the slide. The portion over the linoleum no longer contacts the floor but the other side is still riding on the carpet wearing it significantly. There is no roller support on that half of the wall unit. Brilliant.

[wingnut60]

Great pics--guess I can look forward to this some day also.
Was talking to Paul Cross 2 years ago when at his shop--he said DRV often actually forgets to put the rollers in. Did you happen to check for a mount for another roller?
Joe

[Motor31]

Yup, looked. Saw no other rollers like this unit and was not surprised by that situation. Did Paul happen to say how many there were supposed to be? I am really concerned how long the situation with the rear unsupported section of that middle wall will continue to function before it simply starts to come apart.

I do know there are the usual black plastic (hard rubber?) rollers at the edge of the main floor to support the slide but those are fixed units and cannot be adjusted.

[billr]

You nailed it Mike! Thats exactly what I went through on my second attempt to fix it. Also the second time I relocated the allum angle to ride better on the rollers. I'm sure you found the adj a bit touchy. A bit too high and she rocks up too far and too low she drags the floor.

Good with what they give ya to work with!

I have no other roller in that area.

Bill

[Cheif 2]

I had my center roller go out a couple of years ago tearing up my kitchen floor. Doesn't it just piss you off that you spent all that money on what is to be a quality unit and find crap workmanship being done. Reading some posts on the newer units it appears things have not gotten any better. When will DRV open up their eyes and address this poor workmanship?

[rotaxman]

When the orders stop coming in would be a good start to changing the way they do business. As long as the dumb ass management keeps this quota based assembly line going don't look for to many improvements in workmanship.

Yep it does piss me off I'm setting on a 86000.00 dollar and change investment that has a junk frame under it I feel the pain.

As always good camping
Jerry

[Motor31]

I think Rotax has it correctly. As long as those of us who use the units enough to run into these problems and broadcast them to warn others we will simply be labeled as complainers behind our backs by the brand faithful cheerleaders. That process means they can imply that we are incorrect in our issues because of the "label". The company figures they got one sale out of us and that is all they are counting on.

In a manner of speaking if drv really wanted repeat sales from customers they would acknowledge and address the issues without repeating them in later iterations of the brand. They would then try a true marketing move to get repeat customers by making above market offers for current owners for trade ins of the problematic units over new replacements. I'm not talking about buying out the problem but taking responsibility for their own shoddy work and do what they can to make the customer happy. Do everything they can to make sure the previously unhappy customer was in a unit that performed to expectations and remove the problem from contention. Is that somewhat costly, perhaps, but how costly are the lost sales from those we see and talk to on a daily basis? I don't have to just make claims or complaints about issues, I have proof and can and do show examples of the issues to those who ask me about the brand. In the long run I think that drv would gain from doing that because word of mouth is far better than shiny brochures when looking at spending as much for a trailer as you would spend for a lot and stick house in a good part of the US.

I suppose drv could then look at the offending unit, fix the darn thing properly, do some refurb and then sell it on the used market. I'm not going to hold my breath on that kind of move though. I know from past experience that drv views the expiration of the warranty with relief so that they can wash their hands of the unit and customer. Pity too.

I'd bet there are some folks still in fema units that would love to replace their little box with a low cost drv unit that would stay in a fixed location.

[rotaxman]

Mike,

I like you have voiced to others that ask about the brand the repeat year after year short comings in the brand.

I have cost DRV 5 sales that I know of and with this unit that I'm stuck with now my count is going to continue at an increased pace.

Word of mouth is one of the most powerful sales tools out there. There will always be cheerleaders for a brand.

I have no problem with the layout we enjoy the floor plan but beauty is not what makes things go.

There is no excuse for the continuing re occuring problems other than that DRV doesn't care.

As always good camping
Jerry

[Gemstone]

Regarding getting the message out on DRV products....one other thing we can do collectively, is to continue to recommend this web forum to folks who are asking pre-purchase/post-purchase questions about DRV rigs. I believe we have a good mix of users here, some new, some have been around for years, some cheerleaders, some who are disgusted by the quality of our particular rigs. I have no clue how the nature of the threads go at the "other" site, I have boycotted it since it's inception...I come here, to the original forum, when I want "the rest of the story" and honest/genuine/knowledgeable feedback.

Regards
Gemstone

[wingnut60]

It is hard to understand the reasoning behind asking about $80-100k+ for a mobile unit and then have the problems that happen way too often with them.
Yes, we all think that the reputation gain from handling problem units with a 'replacement' unit would be tremendous, but apparently sales figures must not follow that thinking...if they began to lose sales, then they would do something about the production quality. But, it isn't to that point, I guess.
With my experience with my used '05 (all good) I would be terribly pissed to get a new one that did not come close to the old one. If more buyers would refuse delivery until the problems were solved; if the dealers would actually do a quality PDI; if the buyer did not have 'stars in eyes' over the appearance and head off down the road; then, maybe, we would see some improvement in production quality.
I don't know the real answer, but I ain't gonna be buying a new one unless I win the lottery.
Joe

[rotaxman]

Joe ,

Even if you win the lotto don't trade if you got a good one do what ever it takes to it to satisfy your want itis.

I had a near zero defect 06 and traded it off for this junk 09 would love to have it back. Should of took the 06 to Paul Cross and had him do what ever it took to get it the way we wanted it.

Would of been money ahead and still had a good trailer.

As always good camping.

Jerry

[Cheif 2]

The DW and I went to another RV show yesterday that had DRV units. That was the second this month. I had time to sit and look over the new Tradition and MS. I wouldn't trade my 2007 unit for one at all. The ridiculous price alone doesn't justify what I would get compared to my current unit no mind we didn't really find any of the models to really say wow buy me. Personally I was very disappointed with the Tradition. It doesn't compare to what the Select Suites use to look like, plus it seems to be cheap construction. I did see a MS with the oil hubs though!

[bstark]

Even though I'm no longer an owner or RV'ing for that matter I come on from time to time to get tuned in.

I'm sorry to hear the same things are happening over and over.

Mine was an 05 and the things that plagued me were:

The aluminum angle support under the slideout discussed here.
Pocket door falling into basement
Cargo door mounting plates for gas struts separating from door
Shock absorber mounts breaking from frame and llwer mounts snapping in two
Wrong link shackles (short 36er's) installed on the 38's for the Trailair suspension putting the suspension into bind.
Black tank flush installed backwards
Heating duct to bedroom falling off it's attachment to floor register
Screws used to fasten trim pieces to roof at fiberglass end cap joints overtorqued and broken heads simply caulked over to disguise this little debacle.
Notched Seal under Kitchen slideout allowing weather and critters inside replaced with non-notched doupbled seal
Unbelievable number of plumbing leaks that forced me to buy a crimping tool and bunch of fittings to redo them ALL.
Furnace sagging onto black tank and wearing a hole through the thing until I caught it and built a cross support from the inner framework to suport it.
Furnace fan cyle causing sawdust to blow into the rig until I dismantled the duct work and blew/vacumed the entire sytem of all the construction debris they throw down there to escape having to actually clean up after themselves.

This list is after exercising my memory for 5 minutes and if I bothered to think about it for awhile I could easily quadruple this list but gotta say; I'm glad it's all behind me now.

We had lots of fun trips with the rig but it was the same as the early snowmobiles "use for 4hrs and repair for 16".

Good luck folks and try not to let the maintenance cr*p that happens ruin your time RV'ing.

[wingnut60]

Wow, Bruce, sure glad my '05 has held up well--maybe I did "win" the lottery...
Jerry,
I appreciate very much that you feel money spent to maintain a 'good' one is better than buying new and coming up with a bad one. This puts an entirely different light on my attitude about the trailer. I confess to getting 'new-traileritis' at the RV shows--good thing I don't have the $$$ to whet my appetite.
Maybe I ought to plan a trip back to Paul Cross for good measure.
Thanks,
Joe

[duckbill56]

Mine was riding on the carpet also,had the dealer install a 3rd roller on the slide. Now it rides about 1/2 inch above the counter top. That was my main concern that it would hit the counter top. The dealer is AllSeasons in MI. We put the dog cage over the wore carpet.

[bstark]

Joe; if yours is not giving you major issues; it's a keeper! I'd think long and hard before moving up just for the sake of the new smell or a couple of options that you've been quite happily been doing without to date.

JMHO; but applying a reasonable amount of maintenance costs to keep a rig in acceptable shape is a "no brainer" compared to taking dleivery of a new one and taking that depreciation hit upon delivery AND coping with a market that is continuing to falter regardless of what some folks would suggest.

Your trailer's paid for? Keep the thing and go down the road content with the knowledge that should some unforeseen event like a little fracas with Iran drive the cost of diesel up the ying-yang having a very negative effect on those owners who are making payments PLUS trying to put fuel in the truck isn't going to make or break your travel habits.

Sleeping on a new matress is as easy as replacing the matress, the framwork underneath won't change your nights sleep.

[berghild424]

over $100,000 for our '07 ESTK# and torn up linoleum in between the sink and stove and again over near the rear end of the counter. now the entertainment cabinet floor and cabinet front are separating.
I don't know what to think about the cabinet problem...trying to picture what is going on under there!
I love my home but these problems sure are frustrating. After almost losing the bed slide I am leery.

[rotaxman]

Joe,

What Bruce said if there is something that you want changed take it to Paul Cross and have him do it. It will be a lot cheaper than trading and you will still have your good stead under you.

Cyndy,

Same for you take it to Paul Cross and he will make it work like it should I wish I had took my 06 to Paul and had him make all the changes that I wanted would of been cheaper than the difference I paid to get this junk 09. I would of still had my good 06 and everything would have been good.

As always good camping

Jerry

[berghild424]

yes I would love to go to Paul Cross...maybe in the Fall. Right now all I can think about is getting to New Hampshire and huggin those grandchildren. I was hoping to get an early start from Yuma but it looks like it will be mid April before we hit the road....leaving from Vegas and heading to Grand Junction, CO. first.
It seems like we never get an early start and have to rush when going East so this year we have vowed to take our time.
I will talk to Howard and see about making an appointment with Paul before time gets away from us and he has no time for us.
I wish we were handier and capable of fixing some of this stuff ourselves!!
CYndy

[wingnut60]

Working on getting the trailer up to Cross tomorrow...he has already done work for us, so I know what he can do.
Thanks,
Joe

[golf_bears]

Cyndy,

Where in NH are you heading for? Both my wife and I are originally from NH. Plan on going to the rally in Canada and on to NH then maybe up into NS this coming summer.

We were in Yuma last winter but are in RGV this winter. If you get up into southern Utah you may want to go into Zion, Bryce and Arches canyons, absolutely gorgeous country.

Safe travels.

[Motor31]

For anyone who has gone to Paul Cross and gotten slide issues fixed, I'd love to know what they did and ball park figure of cost. I've gone as far as I can with my tools and skill level. From this point on it looks more like the slide would have to be removed to do further repairs / modifications to fix the drv built in shortcomings.

Also if anyone has had linoleum and carpet replacement done there I'd like to have ballpark cost as well.

Last question, I know someone mentioned the window repair place in Arkansas for the cloudy hehr double pane issue. If you could give the town / business name /contact info and ballpark cost on that I'd appreciate it. The trip to the East this summer is likely to be one of getting major work done rather than seeing the country.

[wingnut60]

Will be there in early April and see what I can find out from Paul. Not having any problems with my kitchen slide, but door slide needs some sort of adjustment after I got the rollers replaced. Have a long list of stuff to have done.
Joe

[Pat L.]

Mike,
I know Lazy Days does the windows for some where around 85.00 I have heard. Also some window Co's. around also do the repairs. Have heard that by looking on line or YP, agents can be located. Let us know how it works out.
Pat

[Joezilla]

Last question, I know someone mentioned the window repair place in Arkansas for the cloudy hehr double pane issue. If you could give the town / business name /contact info and ballpark cost on that I'd appreciate it. The trip to the East this summer is likely to be one of getting major work done rather than seeing the country.

A friend of mine took his Teton to the Arkansas folks to get all of his windows, 14 of them, done. They charged $300 per window. From what I've heard, he is happy with their service.

Joe

[Cheif 2]

$300 per window is insane. You can purchase the windows through DRV for way, way, way less than that and either replace them yourself, which is relatively easy or pay someone to do it. The biggest hassel is they come in a big wooden crate. It takes about 30 mins per window to remove and install new.

[The View 5046]

I don't know what the Ark. repair shop charges but I'm told once they do the fix the warrantee is awesome and the problem seems to go away. Had a Prevost parked behind us for a week or so, and yes he had foged up windows.. It seems as though its a industry issue but Hehr has had the most issues. I often wonder were the competition is???

[netjam]

The competition is out there. I replaced a few Hehr windows ($300 + each) on my suite but the Lippert frameless windows I have now are worse. Be careful what you wish for. Hehr has problem windows but so do others.

[hitchup]

We went a few hundred miles out of our way to go to Paul Cross leaving Conneaut, OH (CG up in the NW corner of PA) for Atlanta back in fall of 2010. Tried to get into the factory, but they were booked & we couldn't get in for 5-6 wks after we were available. Had a long list of items and Paul squeezed us in with only a 3 weeks notice.

He worked off our email list of warranty items: fridge installation recall, missing qtr round, replace leaky shower dome, replace all 3 torn awning toppers, changed oil on Onan gen. Plus fixed the bedroom slide- adding screws on top. It wasn't closing properly and he fixed it as we were preparing to leave. It was going in crooked.

Then we had him upgrade with a 2011 dinette table/buffet added. I think he even found a few items that we hadn't noticed.

We arrived on Sun, hooked up and waited our turn. They took the unit in on Tues and we were heading south on Weds morning. Gave us time for a 2nd factory tour, strolling through Suites at a local dealer, RV Museum, Shipshewana stores and yummy kettle corn. Basically, seeing those things we didn't have time for on a previous visit.

Because Paul made it a quick pleasant experience, had more confidence in our new Suite.

We knew he's worked on many others to do remodeling. We would have remodeled our 2006 Elite, but unlike rotaxman - ours was a leaker and would have cost too much to make the inside and outside improvements we wanted. So we opted for a 2009 & it's been very good to us. Only minor problems that have been fixed or will be eventually. Knock on wood...

[The View 5046]

Thanks I didn't know Lippert made windows? I have had two with the frameless windows and only had one issue. However it was a easy fix, little silicone spray and they work very smooth. None of the 6 5th wheel we have owned had another brand except the two Suites and the frame types in the slides are by Hehr and I suppose I learned today the frameless are by Lippert... Seen the Cedar Creeks and the Carriage 5th wheels are now using the frameless. I think for looks the frameless are the best... And can be left open during rain.

If your going or want to go back to the factory make you appointment months in advance... We went there twice and made reservations 4 months in advance......

I also would drive to Interstate RV (Paul Cross) to get repairs done. And probably will in the future. Happy Trails...

[Pat L.]

Lindy,
I did not know Lippert had anything do do with windows. If I miss spoke on the issue, then I apologize.

[Pat L.]

Question???
For an owner replacing the windows....Do you have to remove all of the interior wood work to replace the windows? The non DRV dealer that was to replace the windows said it would take 3.0 hrs per window x 109.00 x 12 windows. That is why DRV asked me to bring it to them. $3924.00 labor is a big rip off. RV World of Nokomis, Fl. has SHOT themselves in the foot.
Pat

[Cheif 2]

Our 2007 MS does not require the removal of the entire window. The glass is held in with a rubber trim and silicone. Remove the rubber trim strip and the glass will push out from inside. Clean up the old sealant, recaulk and install the window and rubber seal.

[netjam]

Lippert makes the windows on my Escalade (and a bunch of others). I think Lippert brands them Kinro but its 100% Lippert. I know some replace the glass only on their suites but on my Elite we had to remove the interior trim and shades to get the windows out. The labor to replace the windows was about twice what DRV charged for the windows alone. Had 5 windows replaced so far on the Escalade but did not watch the replacement so I don't know if they took the interior trim off. I would think the trim would come off with the frameless windows as I did notice the interior aluminum frame was different on the 5 new windows.

[bstark]

As Chief posted, the windows that are not "frameless" but rather "clamp ring" windows have a glass insert segment that is easily replaced leaving the wood trim and all of the clamping ring surround intact.

This presupposes you have given the factory that made the windows the correct dimensions for the replacements. That information can be verified through DRV acting with the window manufacture.

I believe Hehr is no longer the name of the company used but on my 05 the dual pane windows were able to be replaced exactly as Chief described in his post.

[Pat L.]

My windows are the frame-less type. Except the end slide out has to be rubber seal insert type. I think this is correct be now I am having a brain fart. I will have to drive up to the coach and look. Damn, now I probably won't be able to sleep. Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!lol
Pat

[The View 5046]

Pat L thats correct. I also was only repeating what some one else had posted about Lippert making the frameless windows.. Who ever makes them they look good. Happy Trails...

[Motor31]

Question???
For an owner replacing the windows....Do you have to remove all of the interior wood work to replace the windows? The non DRV dealer that was to replace the windows said it would take 3.0 hrs per window x 109.00 x 12 windows. That is why DRV asked me to bring it to them. $3924.00 labor is a big rip off. RV World of Nokomis, Fl. has SHOT themselves in the foot.
Pat

I don't know about other year / model units but on ours the window is held in by screws that are under the wood trim. As such, on ours if you need to remove the window the trim has to be pulled. That means I have to find a nail gun to use to fasten the wood trim back on the wall. There is no way I am good enough with a hammer to put small brads in place without destroying the trim. I know my limitations...... sigh....

[Stripit]

Our 2004 MS Hehr windows were fairly easily removed from the outside & replacements installed from the outside. Only inside duty was to push the window out. Definitely a 2-person job, but only one has to be strong.

[Red Ram]

I also experienced the slide roller problem, but I had a different approch to fixing it and issues with the Lippert frame..........I traded for a class A motorhome, now I have a different set of headaches.