Axle Alignment

[anijet]

DW had the opportunity to follow the Suites going down the freeway. I had notice in the mirrors the trailer seemed to be doglegging. She confirmed it and said it was really bad. I have visually checked all the suspension parts and components and don’t see anything wrong except that when I stand behind the rig and site down the outside edges of the wheels they do not track straight. Left and right wheels seem to be parallel to each other so it seems to be axle to frame alignment. When I get a chance I will start to measure the axles and see what’s going on. Has anyone heard of this problem on a Suites?

[wingnut60]

If you have had this unit for a while, has there been any odd wheel wear?

One ballpark way to check axle placement is to pick a dead-center point on the front of the frame and measure carefully to the same point on both sides of the front axle--should be very close.
Or, take it to an spring/axle shop to have it checked.

Have not heard of this in the forums on MS models.

Joe

[rv'n]

I have never seen any issues of dog tracking on the Suites forum and I have been tracking it for about 2 years. I have seen this happen on the lower end models like Heartland, Keystone etc. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find.

[Motor31]

Have you had any tire changes? If so did they jack up the axle inside of the spring mounting point on the axle? If so then there is a good chance the axle that was jacked up was bent. They are pretty thin walled axles and can't tolerate being jacked up in that manner especially with the tire being elevated more than just clearing the ground.

I've already had to change an axle because of that very situation.

[BillK]

Our 2011 MS tracks off to the right about 3 inches. It is an agravating thing to put up with. We had it back to the factory and they sent us to Lippert. After measuring, Lippert sent us back to Doubletree, said there was nothing wrong. I showed them that I could stand at the rear and sight down each side and could see the axle definitely stuck out more on the left side as opposed to the other, making the body of the trailer look to be tracking to the right. Nothing was offered to be done and we finally left as we had other obligations.

Also we have not been advised as to what to do with a washer that will not work as it should when using a generator.

[RonS]

Go to axle alignment shop and send bill to DRV. Even if they dont pay it you will have it fixed and save later problems. Going rate is about $75 per axle. Let us know how you make out. GOOD LUCK.

[anijet]

I did a rough measure from the 5th pin to each wheel and they are only different by .5". Since I backed it up my steep drive to its parking place the wheels "eyeball" right on. I sure can't see anything moving or loose. When I have time I will block entire trailer up and drop the whole undercarriage and see what I find. Tire wear is really good. No one, except me, has touched it since DRV built it except for one trip back to the factory for non-frame discrepancies and the Fog Dr for window repairs. I'll do all the work myself. Considering Mor/ryde if I can't determine 100% what's going on. Too soon to make decisions. I'll post pictures if I find something interesting.

[billr]

Like mentioned, take it to a truck/trailer axle shop. For under $100 they will check it exactly, toe, track and camber. You will be sure then.

Ours was way out. I had some bad tire wear as well. The axles both had to come out and be re bent for camber and the track was set up in re install.

I didn't notice any tracking issues before. No bad tire wear now though.

The guy told me we would have killed the new tires in a very short time as bad as it was. He also said a lot of the units are way out right out of the factory. They do tons of them.

Bill

[bucky49]

Our 2010 MS was tracking right and we took it to a shop in Florida they got it to pull straight for about 300. they were going to pull the axles to bend for camber and toe but I knew it could be done without removing. I got that done in Baton Rouge. Lippert denied all responsibility and voided my warranty. I own my last Lippert system.

[Pat L.]

Bucky49,
Why did Lippert void your warranty? You are only doing preventive maintenance. Running straight means no wear and no replacing of parts. I think some of these idiots at these factories should sue their university for making them stupid. You know the saying " You can't fix stupid".
Pat L.

[Red Ram]

Bucky49, I was 1 month out of warrenty and had the same problem as you. They said that I was probably running the tires at a low pressure, idiots. My tires consistantly are right up to 120psi and they never lose any air, but I keep checking them.

You would think Lippert would help a little because the problem was always there, but took a couple years to show up because we don't use the rig that much.

[bucky49]

Lippert claims they voided my warrenty because I had unauthorized work done.
They wanted measurements and pictures and that was " just to start the authorization process". I had comittments elsewhere and as we are fulltime the rig had to go along. I've had axles aligned before and understood most of the process, However after submitting bills to Lippert they told me they would have unmounted hangers and replaced axles instead of grinding centering hole and bending axles. As Pat said you can't fight stupid. You can't teach stupid either.
God Bles anyone who has to deal with Lippert, I won't again. If DRV continues on the course they are running I won't be dealing we them much longer also. They have lost 2 sure sales because of my problems. I wonder how many more people are in the same boat.

[RickandJanice]

I don't mean to start an argument or say that Lippert does not have their problems like any other company, but IMHO, it is not out of the norm for a company to request pre-authorization for a repair that is covered under warranty. Having warranty service done without first contacting the manufacturer and then expecting them to cover the cost is just asking for trouble.

I know others have had issues with Lippert but there are also those of us who have not. We have only had to deal with Lippert one time with an issue on our front jacks and they were great to work with and fixed the problem without any hassle on their part.

[The View 5046]

Lippert is just like the extended service plans, every extended service plan we have had requires you to get authorization. I do know Lippert will replace axles. Happy Trails.....

[bucky49]

Haven't been here in awhile, but to answer we tried to get preapproval. Lippert would not accept result from a multi-thousands of dollar alignment machine. they wanted measurements that could only be estimated. They wanted pictures of wet drive over. Time constraints on this shop would have delayed work a week.

[bucky49]

Repositioning hangers for less than 3/4" move is ridiculous. Replacing axles instead of aligning is ridiculous. How would you know new axles were aligned. I've had two other trailers aligned by bending, their still going.

[Jack in Alaska]

For us lucky ones that have never had to jack up their rig.......where is the proper place to position the jack to prevent damage???

Also..when my MS was new (2004) we had problems smashing the shocks and shock mounts. After several trips to the selling dealer in Everett, Wash. and to a CW in Texas it was discovered that the upper set of bolt holes on the hanger were used at the factory to install the suspension instead of the lower holes. It was changed to the lower which raised the RV approx. 2" and allowed more travel room for the shocks. No shock problems since.
But I noticed that the upper holes have been oblong-ed up causing a knurled edge on the top of the hole; ie the hanger was deforming. What I wonder is how are the lower holes, now used, holding up. How to repair if they are also deformed???
Our shake down trip was from Everett, Wash. to Texas to Cancun to Howe, Ind. to Anchorage, Alaska. We drove over at least 500 topes(speed bumps) in Mexico. That may have something to do with ob-longing those original holes.

[bucky49]

The farther from the frame the springs attach the more likely the hangers will move. It's not a bad idea to beef up hangers. The more weight you put on axles the more importent this becomes. Be sure to put new ubolts on as reusing old ones can cause failure (from I who knows).

[bucky49]

Back to original question, if just changing tire jack at axle mount area, less lift to get wheel off ground. I should have said change ubolts if they have been loosened to move axles. As rough as youv'e traveled its a good idea to have alignment checked. redrilling hole straight and installing bushing on mounting bolt is a tempoary fix for elongated holes. Making sure bolts are kept tight will help.

[Motor31]

For a flat fix the jacking situation is pretty simple. You will need a heavy duty hydraulic jack, a little 1 ton light duty job might not get it done. I got a 6 ton hydraulic jack at harbor freight several years ago. It was primarily for the tow vehicle as the front axle does carry 11k lbs. there. I have had good service from it and it did lift the front axle when the tires sank a bit into soft ground one year.

Place the head of the jack on the plate beneath the axle where everything is connected. That is the main weight bearing spot for that axle. Do NOT put the jack against the bare axle tube itself, that will bend it. Jack the axle just enough to get the tire to clear the ground. Do not try to lift any further or move the trailer higher. Also for flat repair it is done when hitched to the tow vehicle. If you put the front jacks down you are putting additional strain / weight on the jack / axle situation since the front parking jacks will end up blocking movement of weight shift for the axle.

[wandrr]

In addition to jacking carefully, drive the good tire up onto some of your levelling blacks to make the jacking a whole lot easier.

[Pat L.]

Just had my axles checked 01-31-12 by Tamps Spring and they were way out. They said they were out to much to align. Lippert is in the process of doing something about this issue. They need pics then they need measurements then they want more pics. This issue goes back to the June Rally where we first pulled it to. Gentry and gang at DRV are on top of things so I know it will be resolved. I will keep everyone posted.

[Gemstone]

Pat L.....and what year is your rig ? How many miles, what kind of roads have you traveled ?

Regards
Gemstone

[Pat L.]

Gemstone,
It is a 2010 MS TKSB4 that we bought new 1-13-11. When we first noticed the tire wear was the first trip to Tennessee for the Rally. Upon arrival I notified Dan Tauer of the problem. He along with Ryan Miller and Dale Fenton examined the issue and decided to install Straight Line Towing there at RV's For Less. It did not fix the problem. At that time it had a total of 900 miles. Roads consist of mostly I 75 and some local city streets. One trip down to the Keys but the roads are good. No back roads as I always worry about junk. The coach has less than 2500 miles now. This problem was from day one.
I understand that Lippert free hands construction of the axles and they are not built in a jig. This could account for the toe and camber being way out.
Hope this answers your questions.
Pat Laurendine
plaurendine@yahoo.com

[billr]

Pat,

The folks at Tampa Spings are great. We had ours in there Jan 2011 and they were able to pull the axles and re-bend them. The fellow in charge is an old hand at this work. Even new axles right out of Dexter are not any good, According to him, he has had to send them back, or re-bend them before instaling. That is new ones. So we can see how we get a mess out of the factory.

Good luck, it looks like you will get results soon.

Bill

[Pat L.]

Bill,
Which location did you go to? I was at the Bradenton shop. They have 4 locations I think.

Pat

[billr]

Tampa store http://tampaspringco.com/Locations.aspx

Bill

[bucky49]

Hope all went well for you PatL. I too had Tampa spring. Hope DRV does better for you with Lippert than they've done for me. I'm still out around $1000. Tom Peck keeps promising but no results. Saw Moryde on some DRVs at Tampa show Maybe someone will get smart and dump Lippert in future.

[Pat L.]

bucky49,
You might have to take it to Highways Mag. and get their help. Just a thought. No one like any negative press.

[bucky49]

Pat L Good advice. So how did you do.

[bucky49]

What I really hate is paying made in USA prices for made in china quality

[Pat L.]

Waiting for Lippert to make their decision. I have not talked to the repair shop this week but will have it on my agenda for tomorrow. This crap just drives me nuts anymore. We should not have to pay these prices and get this kind of equipment.
A friend of mine just bought a Redwood, a new line of trailer from Thor I think. It has the level up and some of the same things that we have but has better AC's and other things. Can't wait to get a good look at it.

[bucky49]

Pat L sorry to hear your still waiting. Lucky your not workkamping.If Redwood has level up its probably a lippert frame same with trailair. I will look for Bigfoot and Moryde IS in the future and make sure the frame isn't lipperts.

[bucky49]

Lippert is probably trying to out wait you hopefully you have plenty of time to wait them out.

[bucky49]

Make sure when your axles are remounted they use new bolts. I had an axle come off on one side because they reused.

[Motor31]

Bucky, good luck in an RV without a lippert frame since they make frames for almost all of them. You'll have to look for a unit that makes their own frames. That would be a custom unit like Spacecraft, very pricey, and maybe New Horizons also pricey.

[rotaxman]

Bucky,

NuWa also has their frames made by Young's welding best frame in the business.

As always best camping

Jerry

[The View 5046]

There are a few manufacture building their on frames. Probably less than 15% thats just using the SWAG method. However there are millions of RV's riding on a Lippert frames.. You only hear or read about a frame failure. Guess we have been lucky with our Mobile Suites. Our 2009 Mobile Suites was used over a year and pulled thousands of miles and had only one issue, a bubble in linoleum, was repaired and no other issues... We have been in our 2010 Mobile Suites since 6 Aug 2009 and have had to replace the bathroom Manual Surflo fan with a fully auto Fantastic fan... The largest issue has been the plastic retainers on the cabinets, have went thru a dozen or more. As for frame issue I have never had a frame issue in any of the 6 5th wheels we have owned and all were riding on a Lippert frame. I do know Drv will make changes to improve things. I do agree there should be more attention to things that continue to happen over and over, such as the plastic retainers. Good Luck to all. Happy Trails....

[bucky49]

Veiw5046 you truly are an amazingly lucky owner. Even Ryan Miller told me they were having avgerage 25 issues per unit. I've written up the 30+ issues I've had but it would take too many post to get it all on. I won't be getting rid of my MS but until they provide satisfaction for my investment I will not be a cheerleader.

[bucky49]

Tom Peck was very sympathatic for all this rig has had wrong but as evidenced by my lack of $1000, that was lip service. I understand the value of lip service, it keeps people from taking an depth look.

[The View 5046]

We have been lucky we have had very few issues with the 5th wheels we have owned. But there are very few that want have some issues seems as thought some have lots of issues. But its like anything else you will have issues with anything man made. I'm still convince that Drv makes a good product and I will continue to buy Drv products until I'm not satisfied and when that happen I will trade or sell and move on.

And its the same with Trucks, I only buy GM Trucks and Cars they are the best for my use. And everyone has opinions.. You have yours and I have mine. Happy Trails..

[bucky49]

Jerry, thanks for info but like I told view I'm not in the market yet.Carriage made their own frames maybe someone with principles will come on market. Maybe in time Lippert will stand up and produce quality. Maybe our politicians will vote to only accept what real people get for perks. Maybe

[5thwheeler]

Let's chill a bit.
This thread is really getting off topic.
Thanks to all
Mike

[bucky49]

oops too distracted by Jeopardy, should have previewed oh well the jist is there

[bucky49]

sorry Mike, your right

[Pat L.]

Well guys I now have the new axles mounted and now need an appointment to the alignment shop to have them checked. For some reason I just don't trust that the axles are true.
DRV has asked me to bring the unit back to the factory for the window replacements, paint problems and some other issues. Probably around the end of April I will take the 1200 mile trip. Damn fuel is going to kill me. RV World in Nokomis, Fl. was to do the repairs under warranty but decided to get ignorant with their labor rates so now I have to go to Ind. If I felt better then it would not be a problem but this is the hand that I have to play.
The guys at DRV are a great bunch to deal with so I feel I need to try and help out as much as I can to get these issues resolved. I will keep everyone posted as to the outcome of the alignment check.
Pat

[bucky49]

Pat, America's Choice in Clermont, Fl did a good job for me last year. They represented DRV at Tampa show.

[bucky49]

I forgot I think America's Choice has another spot at or near Ocala

[Pat L.]

bucky49,
There will be a cold day in hell before I would ever let America Choice RV ever touch my coach again. A big part of the many problems is because they screwed up and did not do a complete service and PDI. They lied and tried to cheat us. They are lucky that I made it home, 180miles, before something started falling off. I would burn it on their front entrance before I would ever let that sorry bunch of half ass idiots touch it.
Sorry for the rant but now you know why they are not doing any warranty work. DRV knows about it so that is why they want it at the factory.
Pat

[bucky49]

Pat, sorry to hear that. I went to them because of problems with International the dealer who sold me this rig. Seems there's a lot of trouble with dealers.

[Cheif 2]

Pat l,
Although the trip to the factory is certainly something you would prefer not to do, the fellows that do the warrantee work do some great work. We were there in Sept. 2010 and had some repair work done on our MS and they did a ton of extra things and gave us some upgrades to our 2007 unit for free. The work they did was outstanding. Make a nice trip out of it doing some site seeing. It will be good to have all your issues taken care of by people that know what they are doing, not some idiot at the stealer.
Gary

[The View 5046]

I have never used a dealership. Toward the end of the 1 year warranty I have always went back to the factory. I prefer not to leave my Suites at a Dealership.

However I know this will upset some, I have never had a lot of issues.. Two issues with the 2010 Suites and the 2009 Suites only had 1 issue a bubble in the linoleum, very simple repair..

I highly recommend a return to the factory within the first year.... Happy Trails....

[Pat L.]

Thanks Guys,
I know that you all are correct about the trip to the factory. Living down here in SW Fl. does make a long trip about 1200 miles. I hope I can work out the timing so as to get the coach repaired in late April and the first week of May so we can head for KC after that. It is our #2 grandsons graduation that we must attend.
(A little bragging): He did sign a National Letter of Intent to play football for Baker U. for 4 years.
Sandy has a few other shoddy craftsmanship issues that the factory can take care of. Like wrong color putty in the nail holes. This just drives her nuts which in turn trickles down to me. It will be a good time to go there with the weather and we should have a great time. I will look positive!
Pat

[CherriandBob]

If you are in Indiana the first weekend in May you are welcome to join the Indiana chapter of the SOITC at our spring rally in Anderson. The information is in the events section of the SOITC website or I can send it to you. Any "suite" owner is welcome to our state rallies. Travel safe.

[Pat L.]

Thanks for the invite. We would love to join you all. It just depends on the situation. Thanks again.

[don329]

Pat L
I to had axle problems. Went through a set of Tires in 6000 miles. My 2010 was out of warrenty so I paid to have the axles re-bent. Time will tell.
P.S. I bought my Mobile at Americas Choice in Clermont. To be nice, I will just say I would NEVER NEVER EVER use that dealership again!

[Pat L.]

Hi guys,
Well with the new axles under the MS away we go headed to the factory. The tires continued to wear and was throwing rubber from the wear on the outside edge. Mike Chaney at DRV and Chad Olenger looked at the unit and had Lippert come to the shop. First thing out of Lipperts mouth was we were over loaded. So DRV got their scales, that had just been calibrated, and weighed the beast. 7700# per axle. well within specs. Tires were in specs also. So the 3 rd set of axles were installed. After that we had new tires installed. While on the trip from Howe to St. Louis I noticed that the outside edge of the tires are wearing. Not as bad but wearing. Tried to get it in an alignment shop in St. Louis but was not possible. So now we are back in SW Fl. and I will get it up to Tampa Spring & Axle for an alignment.
ALWAYS SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pat

[netjam]

Interesting thread on DRV/Lippert Axel problems. Just for your info, here is my experience with another manufacturer. May 2011 purchased KZ Escalade with 2 year warranty and Al-KO axels. Wore out the goodyears during the winter (estimated 4-5000 miles). Dealer indicated it was an alignment (maybe bent spindle) problem that had existed since day one but suspension problems not covered by warranty. Called KZ...."Suspension not covered by warranty". Called Al -Ko and they would look at the axels if I paid the freight both ways. They would repair them only if they determined it was an axel manufacturing problem but no labor to remove and reinstal them. Have now spent $350/tire to replace the tires and likely need to replace 2 axels on my dime.