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View Full Version : Why a TrailSaver Air Hitch and Which One?


terry and jo
12-16-2010, 05:00 AM
Please excuse any odd rambling or strange comments or questions, as I have been being ravaged by Upper Respitory Infection for the last week and a half. I am REALLY searching for a good night's sleep.

However, since I'm not there yet, I'll still ask the question as to why should one get a TrailSaver Air hitch for their fifth wheel? I have read the benefits of the air hitch and fully understand that, but are they so much better than say a Reese hitch with Trail-Aire pin box (equipped with Tri-Glide) and Trail-Aire suspension? Especially considering that the MSRP on the TrailSaver I looked at was nearly $3000?

In addition, besides getting the TrailSaver, one also has to have a system of airing them up, so there is also that cost to consider as well. Perhaps I should be looking at a different hitch than the $3000 one.

While that one is a good one for those whose trucks are already equipped with an air system, like Delaine and Lindy's Freightliner, what TrailSaver hitch should someone be looking at that has a regular pickup, including ones like our Ford F450?

Some comments that I think I remember reading involved the idea of not having to climb into the bed of the truck to adjust the air in the system. That is currently what I do with the Trail-Aire pin box. Plus, I know about the 12V compressor systems that could be installed on one such as ours, but at what cost? I don't even know what the brand name was that was mentioned at this time.

Maybe I ought to wait until I've actually had a good night's sleep? But then, maybe my rambling question may actually have a benefit for others.

What do you all think someone such as Beachgirl or I be looking at in the TrailSaver hitches and various air systems for them? I think one air system mentioned was something like Vlair.

Terry

Gemstone
12-16-2010, 07:33 AM
Regarding the hitch, have you researched the product on the Trailer Saver (http://www.trailersaver.com/) web site ? They will send you a a video, and should be able to expertly answer your questions.
I cannot recall one person indicating that they were sorry for purchasing a Trailer Saver hitch.

As for a portable compressor, I can't imagine traveling without one. I use it for the tires on our trailers, axles on the RV, tires on our trucks and bikes, the pin box. Cost for the compressor is minimal, the convenience is great and the 150 pound capacity pancake compressor offered by say...Porter Cable or Sears will do the job nicely and they are not space hogs.

Granted, on our big truck, the hitch is connected to the on board compressor, so I can adjust or dump air from my seat....but perhaps you could do the same, adding Firestone Ride Rite air bags and the on board compressor, and tapping in the hitch, or just the compressor and controls (http://www.streetsideauto.com/c/air-suspensions/air-compressors-accessories/b/firestone-ride-rite/)...again, at minimal cost.

Keep asking questions, you are doing the right thing...by asking BEFORE you buy.

Regards
Gemstone

Motor31
12-16-2010, 09:04 AM
Our rig has the Trailersaver suspension and air pin box. I have no reason to add an air hitch to it as well. With the air pin box you already have the advantages of the air hitch, with less cost and weight.

Carrying a small air compressor is a good idea. You can buy light duty ones in hardware stores and use them for tires and the pin box.

rdunk
12-16-2010, 11:31 AM
IMHO - - The Holland Binkley head on the Trailersaver hitch is the best on the market, by specification. It is rated at 32k pounds, and has been laboratory tested to meet/exceed that rating. I especially like the way this hitch is designed to lock around the pin, to ensure the jaws locking block stays put - a spring loaded pin behind the locking block, and a place for a padlock behind the locking block.

When we bought in 2005, I decided on the TrailerSaver hitch. I wanted the weight safety margin the 32k head offered, and I especially liked the features of the hitch, including the smaller "footprint" of the hitch in the truck bed - about 24 inches square, and the fact that it mounted on standard Reese rails. One can get a TrailerSaver hitch in either an air hitch or a "rigid" hitch. I really wasn't even thinking about an air hitch at the time, and bought the rigid hitch, which had an installation rating up to 26,000 lbs.

We fulltimed for almost 5 years, and I was always glad we had the safety of the TrailerSaver hitch.

FWIW - Air hitch or rigid hitch???? The TrailerSaver rigid hitch is great, but, if I were buying today, I would buy the TrailerSaver air hitch, and on the 5thwheel, because of having the "air hitch", I would have a non-air pinbox, and I would have the independent suspension on the wheels.

http://www.trailersaver.com/products.php#hitches

Good luck on your decision!

Robert

rdunk
12-16-2010, 11:40 AM
Quote Motor 31 - Our rig has the Trailersaver suspension and air pin box.
.................................................. ........

Mike, for clarity, I think you meant to say "Trailair" suspension and pinbox, rather than TrailerSaver?

Robert

terry and jo
12-16-2010, 02:15 PM
Some clarification is needed, since I posted the previous question with about 4 hours of sleep. It's rough when you can't lie down to sleep without coughing like crazy.

We already have our coach. In my signature, I have listed the 2010 Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 and the Ford F450 as the towing unit. When we ordered our coach, we ordered the Trail-Aire suspension and the Trail-Aire pin box. (At the time, I didn't know about the Tri-Glide plate, but ours came with it anyway.) In addition, I have a Reese 22K fifth wheel in the back of the F450.

Since some have really praised the TrailSaver air hitch, and Beachgirl (from another 5 page thread) is going to order the TrailSaver but not the Trail-Aire pin box, I had questions come to mind. (However, I think Beachgirl is getting the Trail-Aire suspension, just not the pin box and Tri-Glide.)

If one wants to get a TrailSaver with the Binkley head, the ones for the pickups (as opposed to the MDT's) are listed on TrailSaver's website as a model TS3, rated at 20,000 lbs. One source that I could find that had a price for the TS3 listed it at $2500, including an air compressor.

So, is there an overwhelming reason for me to spend $2000 to $2500 to get a Trailsaver as opposed to less than $1000 for my current Reese, which is still rated 2000lbs higher than the TrailSaver?

While I've only pulled our coach one time for more than 20 or 30 miles at a time, I have been pleased with the ride with the Reese and the Trail-Aire system (pin box with Tri-Glide and suspension on the axles), especially considering Oklahoma's roads.

Now, I am presuming that one does NOT have to have an engine powered air compressor to use the TrailSaver. We do have a Sears air compressor that has a maximum capacity of 150psi. I presume that one could "charge" the TrailSaver air bags with that. Or, does one have to have an engine powered air compressor?

I'm asking the questions because there may be others out there that would like clarification, especially considering the differences in cost between a TrailSaver and a Reese system.

Terry

bstark
12-16-2010, 07:40 PM
Trailersaver's can be bought with a compressor but they are a 12v unit NOT engine driven.

Trailersavers can be ordered without the compressor and you can fill them the same way you would your Trailair pinbox but the compressor option is much more convenient as you would then have a rocker switch with guage that would allow you to add or exhaust air simply by moving the switch and watching the guage.

The thing to watch is; make sure that the compressor that comes with the unit is rated high enough and with enough CFM's to enable a quick-connect fitting to be used to plug in an air hose to add air to your trailer tires or suspension also.

The Holland-Binkley head is patterned after the commercial big boys and is probably the easiest hitch to operate.

The arcing moment of the Trailersaver is less than the Trailair and will not be complicated by the tendancy of the actual pin to be angled when the lower jaw of the Trailair is all the way down. A standard pinbox will always have the pin in a fixed vertical. Fore and aft tugging will not be as pronounced with the Trailersaver as the hitch head will not have to tilt fore and aft as much when the Trailersaver is moving up and down as it would with the movement of the lower jaw of the Trailair pinbox.

This tilting fore and aft is less noticeable the heavier your truck is as the laws of inertia will apply. This fore and aft will also be directly related to the amount of distance from the two pivot points on either side of your actual hitch head to the top surface of the head's plate.

wannabe
12-17-2010, 12:00 AM
I'm not familiar with Trailsaver...but I am with TrailAir/TriGlide pin box.

Would the Trailsaver actually work against the TrailAir since they both are air ride? The Tri/Glide actually helps with the fore and aft movement and the TrailAir works with the up and down movement. But would there be too much play with everything being air?

Maybe I'll call Kara at TrailAir tomorrow to see what she recommends.......

terry and jo
12-17-2010, 06:49 AM
OK. I finally got a little more sleep. Still have to do that sitting up, but there is some improvement.

I found the file on our computer that was the DRV price sheet at the time we ordered our coach. According to that sheet, if one got the Trail-Aire package, one got the axle air suspension, the air pin box AND the Tri-Glide plate, all for the MSRP of $2502.

So, in fairness, the "package" at $2502 and the Reese 22K fifth wheel would be right around $3500 or so at MSRP. But, I know that the package was probably less than that, due to the fact that few ever really charge MSRP.

It would be interesting to know what the Trail-Aire pin box with Tri-Glide would cost by itself. Then, one could more accurately compare the price of that with the Reese and the TrailSaver with a regular pin box.

Plus, the Reese that I got is still rated higher than the TrailSaver TS3 at 20K, which is the one for regular style pickups.

Plus, I apologize for speaking of the compressor being engine driven. As I said, I've not been getting much sleep for the last week. I was remembering that the MDT's do have engine driven compressors, but that pickups would get one that was 12V. Sorry.

Terry

Motor31
12-17-2010, 09:43 AM
Quote Motor 31 - Our rig has the Trailersaver suspension and air pin box.
.................................................. ........

Mike, for clarity, I think you meant to say "Trailair" suspension and pinbox, rather than TrailerSaver?

Robert

Yup, good catch there. Because of the similarity in names I often think one name then type the other, sigh.....

bstark
12-17-2010, 01:51 PM
The Trailair with the TriGlyde optional plate added would indeed be the way to go if considering a hitch other than an air hitch for your truck as the Tri-Glyde uses the weight over the pin of the trailer to center itself for the next fore and aft event, thereby reducing the effect on your truck.

The two air hitches working "against" each other is a popular mis-conception as each has different dampening rates according to the ratings and number of bags in each along with the Trailair having a shock-absorber to dampen/control rebound.

I had both an air hitch and a Trailair pinbox and loved the set-up but then my hitch was a Gene McCall AirGlyder with a "walking beam" with air bags on it to cushion fore and aft AND vertical movement (4 bags in all) as well as 4 shock absorbers to control rebound dampening of all movements. So in total between the two, the Airglyder and the Trailair my trailer was cushioned from towing forces by 5 air bags and 5 shock absorbers. It got a soft ride while being towed by my 17,700lb International.

Beachgirl
12-18-2010, 07:30 AM
I need to wade into the discussion, but disclaimer, I know nothing. LOL

Here's what my dealer is saying to me AFTER I told him we wanted the TrailerSaver Air hitch:

* The B&W hitch is the best hitch, period. There is no play in the hitch, and
that keeps it from chucking. Though it is rated to 18k, he thinks we will
most likely weigh around 16-17 loaded, and that hitch would be fine.
He recommends getting that. Price installed around 1400. Also, can remove from truck with a "clean" bed...also don't have to cut the liner to install.

* The next best hitch, he says, is the Pullrite. Only negative there is you have to hit it straight on to hitch up. The B&W can be inches off and still connect.

* Next, he recommends the Trailermate...made by the guy who designed the TrailerSaver. Around $1600.

* TrailerSaver will cost at least 1K more. Too heavy to remove from truck easily.

We know nothing but what we read. My only concern with the TrailerSaver is being able to take it out of the truck, and messing up the bedliner. We are planning to order a new Chevy 2011 3500 DRW longbed.

Help!!

Gemstone
12-18-2010, 07:56 AM
"My only concern with the TrailerSaver is being able to take it out of the truck, and messing up the bedliner"

While I don't know the weight of the pick up version TrailerSaver, it will be heavy....but even the Li'l Rocker hitch I use in my Dodge is heavy, I usually remove it in 2 pieces. You can figure out a removal method once you know the weight of the unit, which should be available on the TS website. TS will also be able to guide you through their recommended installation procedure, whether you follow it is up to you.

Two schools of thought on the "hitch and bedliner" issue...some say don't place the hitch or rails directly on the bedliner for fear of poor attachment, due to the bedliner's "peaks and valley's" flexing when bolted down. That method is to cut the bedliner and remove the material between the rails and the metal of the bed, thus metal to metal contact and good bolt torque is attained. Good logic, but now you have holes in your bedliner.

The method I used is a modified version of the above...the bedliner is left intact, metal rod, the same thickness as the "peak/valley variance in the bedliner is placed in the valley portion underneath the rail, thus the only compression I have to be concerned about is the thickness of the bedliner material, not the peak/valley difference. Using lock washers and fiber locking nuts, my attachment has not loosened in 4 years of use, and no holes in my bedliner.

Regards
Gemstone

terry and jo
12-18-2010, 09:17 AM
Beachgirl,

While I can't speak to the other hitches you mentioned, I can attest that at least two or three people whom I've talked to said that Reese was one of the best for regular hitches. Like the Pull-rite, one needs to be straight on towards the pin. One person even said they were THE best. My memory isn't great, but it seems like our hitch with installation and 7-way electrical connection in the bed was just over $1000. (Now, I really need to check with the "money guru", otherwise known as Jo, to be sure.

As for the weight issue, you do need to know what our coach weighed out from the factory after building it. The sheet of paper included with the 38TKSB3 lists GVWR at 18,500 pounds, but the empty weight as shipped to us was 15,695 pounds. That is already close to one of the figures that your dealer said yours should weigh loaded. I think you posted that he said something like 16 to 17K. Well, my empty weight is at 16K.

The heaviest items that I think we added were the inverter and its four batteries and the Level-Up system.

Now, from what I gather from your posts, you are NOT planning to be living full time in your DRV. Thus, you may very well not be putting that much weight into your coach, however, you will be packing stuff for at least 6 people. So you do have that working for you. Remember that the B&W type hitch puts additional forces against your coach frame.

Now, regarding bedliners. Keep in mind that Jo and I grew up in agriculture, so pickups were a necessary way of life. In all the times on the farm and ranch, we NEVER had a bedliner. Later on, after I became city-fied, I did have one installed in a new pickup. When I went to trade a few years later, planning on switching the bedliner to the new one, I saw the damage done to the bed by the bedliner being there.

Sand and dirt still gets under the bedliner, moisture gets under the bedliner, and then the motions of the bedliner in the back tends to grind away at the paint and metal. Without a bedliner installed, one can always wash out cleanly and use touch up paint on scratches. Sorry, I won't ever have another. The only kind of bedliner that I might consider would be one of the "spray-in" types.

Terry

The View 5046
12-18-2010, 10:39 AM
Beachgirl, just to give some insite on the B&W turnover ball with the companion 5th wheel hitch. I used the B&W system in conjuction with a Trailair pin box when we had the 2009 Mobile Suites, and it worked great, don't think the 5th wheel rode as well. When we ordered the 2010 Mobile Suites 38 RSSB 3 with the vanity slide the GVW is 18,500 lbs. The B&W capacity is 18,000 lb and 30,000 Gooseneck capacity. I called B&W and talked to them to see if there was anyway to increase the 18,000 lb capacity, his answer no way. And the 18,500 lbs Suites was to heavy.

As for the Head used on the Companion 5th wheel hitch it use the same or similar wrap around system as the Trailer Saver, your information is correct there is no movement and the system work very easy hooking and unhooking. The Trailer Saver works the same. The Trailer Saver work similar to the 5th wheel hitches on many Class 8 Trucks.

And for those who don't know the Trailer Saver BD 3 can be removed, it breaks down into three pieces. The TS 3 is a 1 piece system and very heavy, however I removed my several times.

As for the person who use to work for Trailer Saver and is now selling a similar hitch, can't comment have never heard of the hitch. But if you can use the B&W system its the best static hitch I have ever used. And its the most user friendly steel hitch and it the safest as for hooking and unhooking. But I went back to the Trailer Saver becauses I wanted less stress on our 5th wheel. As for cost, think about what you paid for the Truck and 5th wheel. Hope this helps. (No I get no compensation from Trailer Saver).

P.S. The owner of B&W kept his people working during the slow times. dwroplgjeow

The View 5046
12-18-2010, 10:44 AM
I agree with Terry ref to plastic bed liners. They do more damage than protection. I have use plastic bedliners and also the Spray in type. I now only use a rubber mat. I also mount the B&W over the rubber bed mat. No issues, my opinion plastic bed liners spray in's etc is that the cost can be better used.

bstark
12-18-2010, 12:07 PM
JMHO:

The B&W set-up is a premium hitching system as is any PullRite hitch but the jaw mechanism of whatever head is used is NOT the only cause of chukking.

The Reese's are very fine hitches IF you go with the Signature series as they duplicate the geometry of the Binkley heads and they can also be hooked up relatively easy with truck off-angle. A cheaper Reese has many linkage pins and arms that wear out over time and will allow those jaws to open slightly which allows for fore and aft movement of the pin in relation to the head - BAD thing. You should also consider the locking mechanism of the hitch jaws with as much consideration as you're giving your choice of hitch itself. you do not want your trailer hook-up relying on a flimsy flip-over piece of sheet metal into a little goove in the handle, but rather on a system that allows for the placement of a stout padlock into a hole preventing a segmant of the jaw locking hardware from moving an iota.

You should do this as routine also to prevent unhooking through either mistake or deliberate act by others.

Bedliner's are the death nell to any pick-up bed as trapped moisture and other debris will rot the thing faster than a naked bed that is rinsed out frequently. This I learned the hard way over years of pick-up ownership. If you feel the need to protect your bed from scrapes, scratches or rust; Linex, Rhino lining or any other quality spray-in bed coating are the way to go. Failing that I would advise 'gashing' the plastic bedliner as it is more harm than help at this point.

While these opinions aren't likely to be received with joy; they nevertheless come with the best of intentions and, for the most part, can be easily verified.

hitchup
12-18-2010, 01:18 PM
We had an 18k Reese hitch with our 36' Elite Suite rated at 18.5k. The hitch was a carryover from a 5er that only weighed in at 16.5k. We kept the Elite light because of tow rating on truck and hitch, which was hard to do with 2 adults and one child. But we managed for over a year. When we upgraded the truck, we stuck with a Reese and upgraded to a 22k. Better over than under!

The 18k had no rails and when removed it left us a smooth bed. The 22k is a different version, rails stay in place, but aren't a problem. David also has an auxillary fuel tank and the V-shape rear tool box. So having the rails hasn't presented a problem.

wingnut60
12-18-2010, 08:03 PM
"The B&W hitch is the best hitch, period. There is no play in the hitch, and that keeps it from chucking. Though it is rated to 18k, he thinks we will most likely weigh around 16-17 loaded, and that hitch would be fine.
He recommends getting that. Price installed around 1400. Also, can remove from truck with a "clean" bed...also don't have to cut the liner to install."

Au contraire--there has to be a hole in the liner/pickup bed to mount the square pole into the underframe hitch. I know, got one. But they are sweet, if you are under 18K gross trailer weight.

Joe

Beachgirl
12-20-2010, 06:43 PM
So what are the down sides to a TrailerSaver hitch, other than price!

And thank you for the info on bedliners- we had no idea.

We finalized our MS order today- now just need a truck, and a hitch! :D

Dh is reading all your posts with interest...but hasn't gotten the time to research some more...thus the silence in the face of such excellent replies...

The View 5046
12-20-2010, 08:16 PM
In my opinion after owning two Trailer Savers there is no down side. Frankly I don't think the price is a down side. The Mobile Suite cost lots of $$$$ and you could have gotten a 5er that cost less but then again you want the best...........

Gemstone
12-21-2010, 05:21 AM
"now just need a truck"....

Don't skimp, research thoroughly.... the proper truck is every bit as important as the RV. Don't be misled by sales people, know your requirements, your facts and figures and purchase accordingly.

Regards
Gemstone

The View 5046
12-21-2010, 06:44 AM
Gemstone, I agree, just remember "You can have to much Trailer but never to much Truck".

billr
12-21-2010, 08:27 AM
So what are the down sides to a TrailerSaver hitch, other than price!

And thank you for the info on bedliners- we had no idea.

We finalized our MS order today- now just need a truck, and a hitch! :D

Dh is reading all your posts with interest...but hasn't gotten the time to research some more...thus the silence in the face of such excellent replies...

Congrats on the order! Exciting times!!

If there are downsides to the TS hitch I guess it would be the wt and the space it takes in the truck (pickup) If the bed space is not an issue or you have no real plans to use the truck for hauling or work then no reason to remove the hitch too often.

There is no comparison of a non-airide hitch to an airide one in application. You won't be sorry you went with one. I didn't and now I have to eventually do it all over again and buy one. Where if I had listened more, and done my research I would have skipped the 2 hitches I have gone through (a Reese 22K, which wore flat out!) and the rigid TS I have now. When I bought the Rigid TS I got the benefit of the Binkly head but no airide. I should have spent the extra $2K and had the airide.

I had a Pickup at the time and didn't think I needed the airide. Now that I have the HDT I need it. So you never know what you may end up with. My DW is always telling me not to buy stuff twice. I don't always listen...ha

Like a few others have said, do your research on your future TV. It is every bit as important if not more than your trailer choice. A lot of folks will tell you don't worry about using marginal or under sized truck. I can tell you from my own experience, it will cost you $ in the end to go through the steps of up sizing the truck later, and you will!! Just ask most of those driving a F450, 550, MDT or HDT. Most started with a pickup of some type until the trailers outgrew the trucks and they for one reason or another moved up.

If I was going to start today and for whatever reason did not want to go with an MDT or HDT, the only choice IMHO for me would be the F450. I'm a Chevy fan but they just don't compare unless they have done a huge re-build this year to match the frame, brakes, capacities of the Ford. Instead of just raising the specs to compete. Again, IMHO.

We have no intention of returning to a Pick up. We love the HDT and what it offers us. For sure its not for everyone. Thats why there are a zillion other choices!

Unlike a lot of us that already had a pickup when they upgraded or bought a heavy trailer, you don't, so you're starting off fresh!
Shop wise and have fun too!

Bill

Gemstone
12-21-2010, 08:44 AM
"now just need a truck"....

If you haven't already done so, you might look here for a used truck...

Escapees (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?s=9dd7149f8e673247c2bf1d0bb0d3e184&showforum=25)

Regards
Gemstone

Beachgirl
12-27-2010, 04:05 PM
This is Beachgirl's hubby. For a TV, looks like we're going with a Chevy 3500 Dooly with the Duramax/Allison. Might go with a GMC if we like the cab better, but the vehicles are pretty much the same and the 2011's are supposed to tow 21,000 lbs. We're going to look at them Wednesday and finalize our decision this week.

Also pretty much decided on the TS air hitch. The only thing that bothers me is not being able to take it out of the truck when not towing, especially when we're staying home for several months. I'd like to use my truck bed occasionally, so my question is: just how heavy is that hitch? Just watched a video that showed one man installing the hitch, so is my concern valid?

Really appreciate everyone's inputs - this helps a lot!

Capt Ducks

rdunk
12-27-2010, 06:22 PM
Quote: The only thing that bothers me is not being able to take it out of the truck when not towing, especially when we're staying home for several months".
.................................................. ......
Regarding the weight of the TrailerSaver hitch, any 5er hitch worth having to keep you and your 5er safe, for the Suites weights, is going to be on the heavy side. I picked the TrailerSaver because I wanted a hitch made out of thick steel plate (not bent-up sheet metal).

Capt Ducks, are you going to have a nice tool box in the bed of your truck (ie. a nice storage place for more of your tools, and stuff)?? If you have a long bed, you can get bed boxes wide enough to lay folding chairs flat, or will fit four golf bags, with room to spare - lot of storage space, but takes up a little more of your "truck bed".

Quite frankly, I would not be with out a nice bed storage box for the RV lifestyle. But in our nearly 5 years of fulltiming, I never had a desire/need to remove the TrailerSaver hitch, nor the bed box. With those items in, there is still room to put stuff along the sides of the hitch, and in the rear of the bed. Of course with the tailgate down, there is more room for hauling stuff, when not towing, if needed.

Are you really sure that you will have an actual need to remove the hitch from the bed?? ---------- If I were going to be doing this at a "home", I would simply get a cheap engine type lift to handle getting the hitch out, and for putting it back in - no big deal!!

Robert

terry and jo
12-27-2010, 09:07 PM
Pretty much agree with Rdunk. However, if I recall correctly, Beachgirl and Capt. Ducks are not going to be full-timing, so that is the reason for the desire to remove the hitch from the bed and in having a fairly small "footprint" of additional hitch "hardware".

Capt. Ducks,

In regards to that video that you watched, was it for the TrailSaver air hitch or one of the other, non-air hitches that one man removed or installed? If the weight is an issue, the idea of a "cherry-picker" winch system for lifting and removing/installing would be a great idea. A lot of those are on rollers, so the hitch could be removed, the cherry-picker rolled into a garage, and the hitch stored on a pallet or on boards.

Also, I think it was the TrailSaver TS3 (or something like that) that will attach to two parallel "Reese-type" rails attached to the bed crossways of the bed. If you remove the hitch, those rails only stand up about 1 inch or so. Thus, the bed is still fairly usable for hauling other things.

Also, don't rely solely on the tow weight. Keep in mind Gross Combined Vehicle Weight. That is the total weight of the trailer with everything in it (plus fluids in holding tanks) plus the total weight of the pickup with full fuel, hitch, passengers, and other cargo. I've seen situations where the truck was sufficient for "tow weight" but overweight on GCVW. If I remember correctly, the GM 3500 Dually has a GCVW rating of 29,200 lbs. If the Mobile Suites is 18,500 lbs, that only leave you with being allowed 10,700 lbs for the truck and everything in it.

Cheif 2
12-28-2010, 06:04 AM
Capt. Ducks,
Before you take the plunge on the Chevy/GMC you really need to check with DRV and Trailare regarding the camper suspension height to the truck. I have run into a couple of people who have had to have the suspension modified on the camper to allow for level towing. This is a result of the newer Chevy beds being higher and the hitch height being effected. Good luck!

ponch
12-28-2010, 07:42 AM
As you can see from my signature I have the trailair sys as well as a air safe hitch, which differs from the hitch being discussed.

I have to air the trailair pin box all the way up so that it is locked out otherwise it interferres with the hitch.

Since you have the trailAir and the tri glide You DO NOT need an air hitch.
The triGlide will eliminate the "chucking" that ocurs and the trail air pin box will take care of the ride in the truck.

RickandJanice
12-28-2010, 07:47 AM
Just a thought for those who still use their pickup truck other than towing like we do sometimes. We normally leave the hitch in the truck, but when we need to remove it for a few hours to carry something else, we hitch to our 5th wheel, pull the pins, and raise the trailer until the hitch clears the bed. We then drive the truck out from under the hitch and lower the trailer back to level, leaving the hitch to hang off the king pin until we are done. Then just reverse the process to put it back in. I do not store it for long periods this way, but have left it over night before re-installing it. I would think this should also work with a air hitch but probably need to release the air to take the stress off the bags when hanging it but other that have air hitches can answer better than I.

ponch
12-28-2010, 07:59 AM
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:42 am Post subject:

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As you can see from my signature I have the trailair sys as well as a air safe hitch, which differs from the hitch being discussed.

I have to air the trailair pin box all the way up so that it is locked out otherwise it interferres with the hitch.

Since you have the trailAir and the tri glide You DO NOT need an air hitch.
The triGlide will eliminate the "chucking" that ocurs and the trail air pin box will take care of the ride in the truck.

matsonelite69
12-28-2010, 12:37 PM
Hey Rick, this may be a dumb question, but why would it be a bad idea to leave the hitch hanging for long periods of time? I have done this and if I shouldnt please let me know. Thank You. and may u all have a Very Happy New Year.

ponch
12-28-2010, 12:59 PM
when you "hang" the hitch from the pin box you are put a pressure down on it. It was designed to to set on the hitch and in essence ride on it.

I dought very much if the pin box company would honor the warrenty knowing that that kind of weight was hung for extended periods.

I assure you they will be able to twll. jmho

RickandJanice
12-28-2010, 06:40 PM
Hey Rick, this may be a dumb question, but why would it be a bad idea to leave the hitch hanging for long periods of time? I have done this and if I shouldnt please let me know. Thank You. and may u all have a Very Happy New Year.

Like Ponch said, I do not think leaving allot of downward weight on the king pin would be good for the pin box. I know allot of people store their hitches hanging on the pin and have not had any issues, but I do not like to leave this weight there for very long. Probably also depends on the weight of the hitch and the type of pin box. We use the MoreRyde pin box and a standard Reese 20K hitch. So the downward weight is not as much as an air ride hitch and the kingpin has no vertical moving parts like an air ride pin box would.

I have the Firestone air bags on the truck suspension to cushion the trailer. They can be adjusted easily from the inside the truck depending on road conditions. IMHO this is just easier than having to change pressure in the king pin or the hitch through valves and hoses.

rdunk
12-30-2010, 09:27 AM
FWIW - Most pinboxes are made of fairly heavy steel, and are rated for umpteen thousands of pounds for all of the impacts of towing, so, I probably wouldn't be as concerned about the adverse effects of a "hanging hitch" on the pinbox, as I would be for the nose structure of the 5er. I have no expertise in this area, but, should there be consideration for possible nose structural impacts while having up to several hundred pounds of static downward force hanging on the pin for days, weeks, or months???

May be no problem, but, we should assume that the 5er mfgrs. are putting no more structure in the nose than is absolutely necessary, for weight and overall cost considerations. Would that include structural allowance in their weights and stress calculations for a hitch hanging on the pinbox??? Probably not! Does that mean negative impact? Who knows?

On this element of this thread, the pinbox mfgr. should be able to answer any question relative to the pinbox, and DRV should be able to give an answer relative to any possible impact upon the structural integrity of the 5er nose, from a "hanging hitch". Might be worth asking!

Robert

matsonelite69
12-30-2010, 12:54 PM
Thanks for the input, I just took it for granted after seeing hitches hanging that it wouldnt be an issue. Its like the Ole saying goes you dont know unless you ask. I have the trail-aire king pin and a Husky 20k hitch in the truck, I assumed on this and you all know what that stands for. Thank you again, as always you guys are top notch. I hope all of you have a Happy New Year with safe travels.

Stripit
12-31-2010, 09:13 AM
I can't believe that hanging 300 pounds off the pin box could ever give the structure any problem. Especially when you think it is supporting 3 or 4000lbs when hooked to the truck. I don't think the structure even knows the hitch is even hanging there. That hitch would equate to 10% or 13% of what the hitch would normally have as a loaded weight. At least that is how I see it, but could be wrong.

wingnut60
12-31-2010, 09:39 AM
Thats the way I see it, also. Unless there is something in the hitch mechanism that stretches out (rubber donuts?) when hung, then there shouldn't be any problem hanging it on the pin.
Joe

golf_bears
12-31-2010, 12:40 PM
I agree, 300-350 static lbs hanging is really not an issue. The 3000-4000 lbs of static pin loads translate into a lot of dynamic load when you're humming down the road regardless of the hitch or pin box type one has. In addition, pin boxes and frames are designed with significant safety factors, my guess would be 2-3 to one at least.

I see no problem hanging the hitch from the pin box when you're standing still.

Beachgirl
01-01-2011, 08:55 PM
Gemstone,

Thank you for your suggestion.
I did hunt for a used F450...and I found one at a great price, low miles, 7.3 liter diesel (the good engine :)]. Only the towing stats weren't really up to the MS 38RSSB3, and the 2011 Chevy can handle much more than the older F450, surprisingly enough. The newer F450 (2008) has 650 lb/ft of torque, and the 2011 Chevy has 725! The 2008 F450 can tow 24,500 lbs, and the 2011 Chevy can haul up to 21,700. Though the dually we want, + crew cab, is rated only to 21,100. There were 2 things going against the Ford...my insurance co. USAA won't insure them, and the diesel engine hasn't been as great as that 7.3 L was. We have the 7.3L now and love it. Ford wins in creature comforts, hands down. And the new F350 has stats equal to the Chevy...I'm just scared of the new engine this year. This test drive article has also influenced me :

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/11/chevy-vs-ford-in-heavy-duty-rumble-in-the-rockies.html

Terry,

Thank you for your post. It caused me to fine comb the Chevy' stats, including visiting 2 dealers. Here's what I learned: The GCVW is indeed 29,200 lbs...and the truck itself, one passenger, full tank, has a curbside weight of 7300 lbs. That was taken off an actual truck. However, the test truck above weighed 8200 lbs, so who knows. :) That leaves me with a truck payload of 2400- 3400 lbs (29200- 18500 MS GVRW). Taking in to account passenger weights and hitch weight, that still leaves us an 1800-2800 lb leeway. We might carry 3-400 pounds cargo in the truck, but not usually. That's also if we are maxed out in the trailer...but we aren't fulltimers, so doubt we will be that heavy. Thank you for raising the point. If I missed something, please tell me. I'm really trying to do my homework here. :)

Our only concern now is the height of the Chevy (which we haven't bought yet) and leveling the MS. We did order the TrailSaver TS3. It was on sale. :)

I'm sure Capt Ducks will be posting, but I wanted to let y'all know what we've been up to and what we have arrived at so far.

I also priced RV insurance, and with full replacement cost, it will be $866. a year, using Progressive.

That's all for now. :)

Happy New year everybody!! Thank all of you again for taking the time to post and guide us. We are so appreciative!

Beachgirl

Motor31
01-02-2011, 10:08 AM
When looking at the truck loading keep something in mind. In a fifth wheel format the PU supports some of the load. The pin weight on a 38' rig should be about 4000 lbs +. If you are planning to load up the back of the PU keep the axle and tire weight capacity in mind. You might be inside the PU GCVW but still overload the axle or tires. Neither of those is a good thing.

Our actual pin weight for the 38' is over 4300 lbs.

Stripit, aka Stacey, has been doing weight analysis for some time and has stats on recent real world weights of DRV rigs and tow vehicles. He found a significant number of DRW PU's were overloaded either by the GCVW or the axle / tire capacity. All (100%) of the SRW PU's were overweight.

DRW = dually
SRW = single rear tire

The View 5046
01-02-2011, 10:16 AM
Beachgirl, great choice on the Trailer saver and the Suites will LOVE the ride. As for your choice of Trucks you can't go wrong with the GM 3500HD's DRW. With the improvements GM made on the Frame and the exhaust brake you will have a excellent Truck to tow the Suites.

The last GM 3500HD we had was in 2008 and it had no problem with the Mobile Suites. We also had two other 3500HD's that pulled a heavier 5th wheel that the 2009 Suites. Pulled the Colorado Rockies with out a issue.

The Duramax/Allison is a proven combo about the only thing GM has done to the Duramax/Allison was to make impovements since it came on line. All the test on the 2011's have shown that GM has another winer and is a step above the competition. If we ever down size it will be to a GM with the Duramax/Allison.
Good Luck.

P.S. The 2011 GM is the Truck of the year by Motor Trend.

Beachgirl
01-03-2011, 12:32 AM
Thank you Motor 31. The rear axle (RAGWR) is 9300 lbs on the 2011 Chevy 3500 DRW. I am planning on the pin weight being about 4300 lbs, and the hitch to be 300 lbs. Not sure how to figure the weight of the actual truck on that rear axle, or if I need to.


TheView,

Was glad to hear your opinion, and that you think the truck will be enough. I knew you went to a BIG truck! :) The 2011's are really strong, and so it is heartening that you had no trouble on previous models.

I think we are just about set then on the truck/trailer combo. My only remaining concern is the bed of the Chevy being too high? or was it too low, lol! At any rate, getting it level. Any advice there, and we are good to go.

Thank you again!
Beachgirl

The View 5046
01-03-2011, 08:24 AM
How high are the 2011's I'm not sure but the 2007 3500HD Chevy Classis was not the same as 2008 GM 3500HD the Truck bed was taller than our 2005 and 2007 GM 3500HD's.

I will tell you we had to get spacers to raise the TS 3 to make the 5er ride level. Trailer Saver has 3 different spacers for the TS 3. I recomend you check to see what spacers thats on the TS 3 your buying. The spacers are very easy to change out. Trailer Saver overnighted the spacers to us. I believe the total cost was $125.00. I would bet you will need the spacers to give you more clearance between the 5er and the bedrails. Good Luck....