No more F350 for me

[BobW]

Last week we were doing 45mph and the traffic light turned yellow about 500 feet in front of us. I hit the brakes and the truck skidded in the wet road and there was no way to stop. The light went red and I went through the intersection. A lady started to cross in front of us. I hit the horn and luckily she stopped. I had to move into the other lane to miss her. This is it. I'm out of the F350 business from now on. Ever since I bought this truck I've worried about the braking. This truck is just to light for the Elite. Last week I put money down on a M-2.

[The View 5046]

Good Choice Bob, you want be sorry. You are going to a real MDT. Once you pull with this Big Boy let us know you thoughts! Looks like a Mountain Master upfit. I know Gerry have done business in the past with him and his Son. We bought two Generators from them. Good Luck. GBY...

[rdunk]

Bob, sorry about your problem - an "uncontrolled stop is always scary! However, I wouldn't put all of the blame, if any, on the F350. First off, you say "the road was wet". Well, wet pavement does require some driving caution on the driver's part. You mention sliding through the light from 500 feet - - that would almost equal the length of two football fields. That would seem like an awfully long slide for 45 mph, with a vehicle that should have ABS controlled braking, towing a trailer that should be braking itself.

Another consideration on worrying about the weight of the Elite relative to the F350 is how you have the brake controller set for stopping the trailer. Your Elite should be stopping itself, not "pushing" the truck when you hit the truck brakes.

We towed an 18,000 lb RE3 for five years with an F350 DRW, and I was never ever concerned about stopping. I did have the BrakeSmart controller for stopping the trailer. (I disabled the Ford controller, and installed the BrakeSmart) With the BrakeSmart, I would always have max trailer braking when I had max truck braking. During those five years, I had numerous max braking stops, and my trailer never pushed on my truck. So, for me, stopping just was never a concern for me with the F350!

Certainly, my optional disc trailer brakes, which are now standard, made a big difference with the trailer stopping.

My only concern with my 2005 and 2006 F350's was they really needed a little more hp/torque for the higher elevations. I could have solved that with a chip or programmer, but we didn't go to the mountains much, so I just never did the upgrade.

Bob, there is certainly no reason to tow and be unduly worried about your ability to stop. As you are doing, get a tow vehicle that satisfies your own feelings for "safe towing and safe stopping". The RV life is too good to let "stuff" interfere with being happy and content on the road

Robert!

[BobW]

To make things a little clearer, I didn't slide through the stop. I let up on the brake when I noticed it sliding. Just like you would in the snow. The road was partly dried, but, had some water. I've always had a concern about both the RV and truck braking. Yes, you do need to have more room between you and the stop place. Also, by the book, I am just at the breaking point as far as weight goes. I never have the tanks full and try to keep it as light as possible. So, this new truck won't be as much of an issue.

Bob, sorry about your problem - an "uncontrolled stop is always scary! However, I wouldn't put all of the blame, if any, on the F350. First off, you say "the road was wet". Well, wet pavement does require some driving caution on the driver's part. You mention sliding through the light from 500 feet - - that would almost equal the length of two football fields. That would seem like an awfully long slide for 45 mph, with a vehicle that should have ABS controlled braking, towing a trailer that should be braking itself.

Another consideration on worrying about the weight of the Elite relative to the F350 is how you have the brake controller set for stopping the trailer. Your Elite should be stopping itself, not "pushing" the truck when you hit the truck brakes.

We towed an 18,000 lb RE3 for five years with an F350 DRW, and I was never ever concerned about stopping. I did have the BrakeSmart controller for stopping the trailer. (I disabled the Ford controller, and installed the BrakeSmart) With the BrakeSmart, I would always have max trailer braking when I had max truck braking. During those five years, I had numerous max braking stops, and my trailer never pushed on my truck. So, for me, stopping just was never a concern for me with the F350!

Certainly, my optional disc trailer brakes, which are now standard, made a big difference with the trailer stopping.

My only concern with my 2005 and 2006 F350's was they really needed a little more hp/torque for the higher elevations. I could have solved that with a chip or programmer, but we didn't go to the mountains much, so I just never did the upgrade.

Bob, there is certainly no reason to tow and be unduly worried about your ability to stop. As you are doing, get a tow vehicle that satisfies your own feelings for "safe towing and safe stopping". The RV life is too good to let "stuff" interfere with being happy and content on the road

Robert!

[BobW]

Good Choice Bob, you want be sorry. You are going to a real MDT. Once you pull with this Big Boy let us know you thoughts! Looks like a Mountain Master upfit. I know Gerry have done business in the past with him and his Son. We bought two Generators from them. Good Luck. GBY...

Yes it is a Mountain Master unit. I pick it up in a week. It has the Mercedes engine. Gerry and Son seem like a couple of down to earth guys.

[GlennWest]

I've not yet had any near misses. I was shocked yesterday when I weighted at the truck stop. I'm 24,400 lbs. Truck was just me and a full tank. Note too this is just a 32TK3. Man these units are heavy. I personally don't see how anyone is comfortable with any 3500 towing a DRV 36' or more. Congratulations on the truck. I'm drooling.

[BlueSkyRanch]

Sweeeeet truck Bob

[Motor31]

Congrats on recognizing that towing overloaded is neither legal or smart. Lots of others never do. Towing a trailer that out masses your tow vehicle 3 to 1 means that higher mass will win the argument when they have a conflict. The trailer brakes are both mandatory and a good idea but the do not have the same power or ability to stop as do the vehicle brakes. They also depend on a cable connection that can fail without notice. Putting 18,000 + lbs on 4 tires with less power means the brakes do not have the same power to stop the vehicle like the tow vehicles brakes do. They do help to maintain the directional stability so that the trailer does not jack knife under hard braking and handle part of the braking load.

[bstark]

A great many of us hated that "by the seat of our pants" approach to towing these things. You will not regret your choice! Our previous trailer was a 36' triple slide that weighed about 13K all loaded for travel and we were towing that with a Chevy 2500HD Duramax. We had had a couple of nail-biter incidents while on Interstates and decided if we ordered a DRV 38 footer, we'd definitely need a bigger TV so opted for a 4400 Intn'l. Then while we were at it we had a custom body built for the rear of it to house our Ultra so that it's loaded weight with 200 gals fuel etc., was right on 17,600lbs by itself.

A testament to the disc brakes of these trailers is; after transferring my Prodigy controller to the big truck and hooked to the Mobile Suites for the first time without changing it's settings, my 'test' tap of the brakes had us kissing the windshield in that International. Those disc's and the greater weight of the Mobile Suites with it's increased tire to road traction simply had us stopped in our tracks! I had to dial back that prodigy quite a bit to prevent flat-spotting of the tires with those disc brakes.

My truck had the full drum air brake set-up and would easily have stopped everything by itself with full air brake ABS control as well for a very real boost in confidence and safety over the pick-up route. That rig at over 34,000lbs would very easily out-stop our previous much lighter trailer and truck combo.

[Huck]

Just to clarify, when towing with the "ford factory brake control'.

If the ABS becomes active, as it would have in BobW's experience on a slippery roadway.
There is NO TRAILER BRAKING at all, not even if you have time to reach down and manually apply the trailer brakes.

So, if a Ford pickup is towing and the ABS becomes "active" the trailer will push the truck to make the experience seem a lot worse.

[BobW]

The guys at Mountain Master told me that if I did get into an accident, because I was over weight, I would be at fault, of course. Even if it wasn't my fault.

[Okie]

Huck, Can you explain why the trailer brakes don't work when you are using ABS. And I thought that ABS was working all the time. I am a little confused.

Okie

[terry and jo]

Like Okie, I'm kind of curious as well. If one reaches down and actually activates trailer brakes only, how is it that the ABS system on the truck defeats that effort.

Maybe I just don't fully understand ABS systems.

[47hook]

BobW, do you believe the salesman concerning legal matters as pertains to weight? Might want to review this:

http://forums.woodalls.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20577181.cfm

[Huck]

Huck, Can you explain why the trailer brakes don't work when you are using ABS. And I thought that ABS was working all the time. I am a little confused.

Okie

You may have to get that answer from FORD.

When I say ABS active I mean when the brake peddle is pulsing and the ABS light on the dash is lit.

The ABS system is working all the time. The only way to turn it off is to pull the fuse.
But, if say, you are towing on snow covered, wet or icey roads or down a very steep gravel hill in a campground. You apply the brakes, the truck wheels start to slide or skid, the ABS becomes active, when this happens you have Zero trailer brakes and the situation becomes worse when the trailer starts to push the truck and the truck won't stop because the ABS is just pulsing.
Or say you are towing on the highway and you look down at your dashboard and see (FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON)the ABS warning light is "on". YOU DON'T HAVE ANY TRAILER BRAKES.
The next stop has to be a repair facility. Or someplace to get the color replaced in your knuckles.
I have had this happen to me.

[Motor31]

The guys at Mountain Master told me that if I did get into an accident, because I was over weight, I would be at fault, of course. Even if it wasn't my fault.

That is pure hogwash. Being overweight does not constitute fault, unless being overweight was the direct factor that led to the collision. In other words if you are over weight and are rear ended at a stop sign you are not at fault for the collision. You may be cited for being overweight but that was not contributory to the collision.

Now if you are over weight and slide through a stop sign the weight is a secondary violation, the first being that you did not stop for the sign. You would be held liable for the collision as both situations led to the collision and driving overweight adds more to the negligence involved. That would also lead to more responsibility in the civil suit as well.

[bstark]

Huck; if true that the Ford Tow Command is designed so that activated ABS interrupts supply or signal to it; then it's not a feature but a rather a handicap that I'd be bypassig with a good old Prodigy, Brakesmart or some other top line controller in a heartbeat. Sheesh, there's never a more critical time for trailer brakes to be needed while towing with a picky-up than when a braking situation has triggered the ABS!

[terry and jo]

The guys at Mountain Master told me that if I did get into an accident, because I was over weight, I would be at fault, of course. Even if it wasn't my fault.

That is pure hogwash. Being overweight does not constitute fault, unless being overweight was the direct factor that led to the collision. In other words if you are over weight and are rear ended at a stop sign you are not at fault for the collision. You may be cited for being overweight but that was not contributory to the collision.

Now if you are over weight and slide through a stop sign the weight is a secondary violation, the first being that you did not stop for the sign. You would be held liable for the collision as both situations led to the collision and driving overweight adds more to the negligence involved. That would also lead to more responsibility in the civil suit as well.

Could it be that the "at fault" factor here is related only to whether insurance would cover an accident instead of the legal aspect of being overweight? In other words, would an "overweight" status be reason for an insurance company to deny payment?

Terry

[Motor31]

It is possible that they may try to do that using the knowingly negligent aspect of the policy. You'd have to look at the list of exclusionary clauses for coverage. Not all policies are the same and certainly not in every state either so a blanket answer is going to be impossible. I would certainly be checking on it though.

[morscuba]

Bob enjoy your new truck.. Todd and Jerry are great guys..I still talk to them when small problems arise... I just got 16 mpg towing the trailer bike and Smartcar..Also made a 1000 mile trip not towing I got almost 20 mpg.
Re: your advise to the guy on the forum concerning the feeding of the buzzards.. They are not waiting for you to feed them.. They're waiting for you to croak..
Again enjoy the truck.:)

[The View 5046]

That is some great fuel mileage for a Frieghtliner. What engine do you have??? I have never got close to that mileage. Our total weight is 34,500 +or- and on our 6,000 mile plus trip our average was 8.5. We tow a Chevy HHR behind the MS. Have never checked it when not towing. GBY....

[morscuba]

I have the Mercedes 250 hp with the Mercedes Autoshift. I have to admit I am very careful with my speed managment. My sweet spot on the straight and level is about 58... I know, I know I'm the guy ya'all are giving the bird to as your passing me. But no kidding I was very surprised by my mpg on my way to Augusta last week. It was a quick trip and I wasn't all that careful..I just totaled up all the reciepts and I had left on out,,(Starting out) I ended up getting 17.2 mpg..I'm still pretty impressed

[The View 5046]

Thanks morscuba, we have the Mercedes 330 hp with the Allison 6 speed. We run 62 to 64 mph, have to run over 60 to get the Allison into 6th gear. But as most know you don't buy Heavy Trucks to get fuel mileage. GBY....

[BobW]

Bob enjoy your new truck.. Todd and Jerry are great guys..I still talk to them when small problems arise... I just got 16 mpg towing the trailer bike and Smartcar..Also made a 1000 mile trip not towing I got almost 20 mpg.
Re: your advise to the guy on the forum concerning the feeding of the buzzards.. They are not waiting for you to feed them.. They're waiting for you to croak..
Again enjoy the truck.:)

I just got the truck home. I would love to see a photo your Smart Car loaded on your truck. They told me I could do it after some modification. They needed to move the hitch back to do it. Wonder how much that would cost?

[BobW]

I have the Mercedes 250 hp with the Mercedes Autoshift. I have to admit I am very careful with my speed managment. My sweet spot on the straight and level is about 58... I know, I know I'm the guy ya'all are giving the bird to as your passing me. But no kidding I was very surprised by my mpg on my way to Augusta last week. It was a quick trip and I wasn't all that careful..I just totaled up all the reciepts and I had left on out,,(Starting out) I ended up getting 17.2 mpg..I'm still pretty impressed

I have the same engine you have. From Quartszite to Portland I got 17.4 mpg.

[morscuba]

Too Cool!!! :D I will PM you my e-mail. Email me back and I will get you a few pic's if you want. I tow the Smarty and put the bike behind the cab.
Congrats. I don't think you will be sorry.

[Gemstone]

"I got 17.4 mpg....."
that's not much less than I get with my Dodge when empty....and you have a lot more truck !

Hope you enjoy the trip
Gemstone

[RonS]

I tell veryone I get 23mpg when towing Thats 13 hwy and 10 city =23 But 17.4 is great dont ever get rid of that truck. With all my after market upgrades best I can get is 12.6 @ 63 mph.

[jas24]

That is a goodlooking truck you bought Bob. I am sure you will get a lot of use out of that one.....

Take Care

[BobW]

Still trying to get all the bugs out. Got the brake light fixed, the cruse control finished and fixed the fuel injector problem. Should be OK now. My wife wanted heated seats, so I just finished installing that in today except for the wiring.

[Gemstone]

Bob....if she needs heated seats....you're heading the wrong direction....

Regards
Gemstone

[BobW]

Bob....if she needs heated seats....you're heading the wrong direction....

Regards
Gemstone

Don't get it. But I'm a little slow.

[terry and jo]

I think his point is that if it is cool enough that the wife needs heated seats, then perhaps it is time to head South to warmer weather.

Good looking truck. We looked at used SportChassis trucks on the Freightliner base truck, but didn't like the price. Even for a used one it was about $90,000 and our used 2008 F450 came in at a third of that at $30,000. Made buying the 38TKSB3 easier to handle.

Terry

[buckwheat]

I TRADED MY F350 FOR AN F550 TO GET BETTER BRAKING FOR MY 38 FOOT MOBILE SUITES. THE EXTRA POWER HELPS WHEN STARTING FROM A DEAD STOP ON A STEEP ,MOUNTAIN ROAD. I LOVE MY 550 BUT AM HAVING TO SELL IT AND MY TRAILER FOR HEALTH REASONS. SEE MY AD IN FORD AND MEDIUM DUTY TRUCKS. SMOOTH RIDING WITH REAR AIR SPINGS. GREAT TRUCK.

[BobW]

I think his point is that if it is cool enough that the wife needs heated seats, then perhaps it is time to head South to warmer weather.

We are heading that way Jan ?? The seats are leather and man there cold in the morning.

Good looking truck. We looked at used SportChassis trucks on the Freightliner base truck, but didn't like the price. Even for a used one it was about $90,000 and our used 2008 F450 came in at a third of that at $30,000. Made buying the 38TKSB3 easier to handle.

Terry

[terry and jo]

We've had a couple of vehicles that had heated seats, and the King Ranch F450 may have them as well. As for me, I have enough "natural" insulation in my b*tt that I don't need them.

Jo does like them on occasion though.

Terry