towing

[dshind]

Does anyone tow behind their 5th wheel?We bought a kia spectra and wondered about using a car dolly to tow it behind our rig.Any thoughts? Thanks

[rverdlm]

I tow a jeep behind mine, but with 6 years experiance doing this IMHO you don't have enough truck to do it safely.

[morscuba]

I use a Blue Ox system to tow a 08 SmartCar with 4 on the ground. Before I put the bike behind the cab of the truck, I was towing a Aluma trailer with the bike, on a factory frame hitch. Never knew either were there. I also have the rear camera, which in my opinion is pretty important.

[Motor31]

I tow a Jeep Cherokee behind the trailer 4 down using a tow bar similar to the Blue Ox but from a different company. Like mentioned earlier you do not have enough truck for the load.

You also need to have a very substantial tow hitch mounted to the trailer and welded properly in order to manage the toad. Do not forget that the toad will have it's own turning space needed and that there will need to be enough space between the trailer and the toad for it to turn without touching the trailer. After my hitch was installed I ended up getting an extension to create the needed space, especially for tight turns.

If the toad is set properly it will track right behind the trailer and will not cut inside the turning radius. If the trailer clears the item you are turning near the toad will do so as well.

[Hermes]

I use a Blue Ox hitches system to tow a 08 SmartCar with 4 on the ground. Before I put the bike behind the cab of the truck, I was towing a Aluma trailer with the bike, on a factory frame hitch. Never knew either were there. I also have the rear camera, which in my opinion is pretty important.

Towing is a headache but a wonderful experience especially with my ford f250, anyway how does the blue ox system work? is it possible for a pick up truck..?

[Hermes]

Is it possible for engine/transmission be damaged for a chevy silverado if I haul 4500 lb trailer for 500 miles with tow mode not operating?

[GlennWest]

I'd have to answer yes, but not likely. That's not much of a load. Tow haul mode locks the torque converter in earlier and completely. This eliminates slipping which builds heat and heat destroys trannys.

[Carny Bill]

50 % of my towing I do not use "towmode", been doing that for 10 years.

I also tow a small 6x9 trailer w/ cycle.

[wingnut60]

Tow mode is an option to use on all models--it is not necessary to use it to tow. It only changes the shift points and helps in braking by downshifting the transmission when brakes are applied.
You should not incur any damage to the transmission if you don't use it.
Joe

[johndglynn]

Tow mode is an option to use on all models--it is not necessary to use it to tow. It only changes the shift points and helps in braking by downshifting the transmission when brakes are applied.
You should not incur any damage to the transmission if you don't use it.
Joe

I do agree that you can use it the tow mode for almost all tow bars (http://www.jcwhitney.com/tow-bars/c12393j1s17.jcwx) models. But even I put my truck in a tow mode i cannot see any difference how the truck runs.

[wingnut60]

On Fords, you can tell a big difference in shift points, both up and down.
My 450 will shift into OD quickly loaded or unloaded; with the Tow/Haul, it will delay the final upshift sometimes to the point I have to kick it out to get into OD.
For me, it is only useful in hills and mountains.
Joe

[GlennWest]

The real benefit in tow mode is early torque converter lock up. Torque converter slippage, which is normal for low load operation, allows soft smooth shifts. When towing heavy, heat generation is an issue. Heavy load increases heat from this slippage. Mine locks in at 20ish in tow mode. At cruise without.

[RodeWorthy]

In the days when I dealt with such things torque converter lockup meant a sliding splined gear slipped over the torque converter output shaft to physically "lock" the output shaft to the input shaft thus removing any possibility of torque converter slippage affecting the load -- it, (the torque converter) is effectively by-passed or "locked out".

Tow-Haul mode with a Duramax/Allison does not lock up the torque converter as described above but the torque converter clutch (TCC) provides similar function and behaves differently in the two operating modes -- Normal or Tow-Haul.

In Tow-Haul Mode:
During deceleration, the torque converter clutch (TCC) remains applied at closed throttle to much lower vehicle speeds to significantly improve the effect of engine braking.

During acceleration, the TCC is applied in 2nd range and remains applied in 3rd, 4th and 5th. This improves the drivetrain efficiency and significantly lowers transmission sump temperature when towing heavy loads. In Normal mode, TCC generally applies only in higher ranges and is dependent on throttle position.

Shift Patterns:
Tow-Haul shift mode significantly changes the transmission's shift pattern to reduce shift cycling and to deliver better performance, control, and cooling when towing/hauling heavy loads.

Upshift points are raised at light to mid throttle position to use more of the engine's available power for accelerating. Downshift points are raised to enhance engine braking to help slow the vehicle.


Like others I routinely tow with Tow-Haul mode off. I will deploy it when I want extra control on hills and mountains or in traffic with frequent speed changes. There are times the transmission will not shift into sixth gear in Tow-Haul mode on but it always will in Normal mode. At my cruising speed (59 MPH) in sixth gear my engine is at its peak torque curve at 1600 RPM. I believe that is my optimum fuel efficiency point too.

I also use Tow-Haul mode under the same conditions when I am not towing to achieve the same control level on hills and in traffic.

If the transmission is used to retard speeds on a long grade it is most important to monitor the transmission temperature.

[The View 5046]

Rodeworthy thats a great post about the best I have ever seen explaning the Allison.... Thanks.....

[kswaby10]

Thanks for the great explanation.



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[terry and jo]

Rodeworthy,

I have to chime in and also thank you for such a good explanation. BUT, I also have a question. Would your explanation also be similar with the Ford transmissions with the Tow/Haul feature?

The reason I ask is because I had the impression that ANYTIME one was towing their RV that they should be in Tow/Haul. But, from your explanation, it sounds that it might even be more economical on fuel if one is NOT using Tow/Haul in flatter country. Could I be assuming right, or am I way off base?

Also, may I copy your explanation and post it on other forums, giving credit to you? (Or, to your username that is.)

Terry

[Huck]

Like others I routinely tow with Tow-Haul mode off. I will deploy it when I want extra control on hills and mountains or in traffic with frequent speed changes. There are times the transmission will not shift into sixth gear in Tow-Haul mode on but it always will in Normal mode.
This is what I have always done too.
Keeps the truck closer to the best economy range without any harm.
No need to be cruising at 55-60 MPH on flat ground at 2000 RPM.

[RodeWorthy]

First let me apologize to the orginal poster. I really try to make sure I don't hijack posts by getting off-topic in a particular post but I blew it during the discussion of the tow-haul mode. Seems it got off track early and I missed that. Sorry.

But since we are into it and I have had comments on my post I hope you won't mind if I wrap this up.

Thanks to those who commented on the information I provided regarding the use of Tow-Haul mode for the Duramax/Allison.

Terry,
Any information I post is considered public domain. Use it as you deem appropriate. No need to provide source information. Many times the information is my own opinion which may be right or wrong but in this instance I paraphrased the information regarding the shift points and TCC directly from an Allison publication to make sure I got it right. The info pertaining to when to use Tow-Haul mode is strictly from my own experience but I believe it to be correct.

I tried to find info directly from Ford on their application of Tow-Haul mode but could only find 3rd-party info. However, it does confirm that the shift points change between the two modes and the TCC does deploy earlier when in Tow-Haul mode.

Ford's Towing Guide for 2010 explicitly states that Tow-Haul mode can be used when operating on hills to avoid shift hunting, aid in engine-braking and to help keep temperatures under control. It does not imply that Tow-Haul must be used whenever towing. From this I would suggest it is not a requirement to use the Tow-Haul mode whenever towing and further Tow-Haul can be used when not towing.

Huck has it right -- no need to be running at 2000 RPM when a lower RPM can be achieved for the same MPH.

Hope this helps.

[wwc]

Well I am going to jump in and add my 2 cents worth, well maybe one cent. First off I not only consider Rodeworthy my friend, but also a mentor. Having said that, I never hit the road unless my transmission is in tow-haul. We left Atlanta Ga on summer day with the temperature in the 80s and I forgot to engage tow-haul. I am not sure how far we had driven, but when I checked the transmission temperature it was between 240 and 250 degrees. I immediately engaged tow-haul and it slowly came back down to where it normally runs around 2l0. This has happened a second time, but not to that extreme, so now I always use tow-haul. Now I have never noticed that my truck is running more RPMs in tow-haul. My normal speed on the Interstate is 65 and my rpm guage is showing around l650. This is with a 2006 Chevy Duramax towing a 2006 36 foot MS. Towing in the winter during cold weather, it may be a different situation, however most of my towing is during the warmer weather.
wwc

[wingnut60]

Terry,
Since I know you have a 450, as I have, I can pass on from experience that you can use T/H or not AT ANY TIME. These trucks/transmissions are very 'smart' and for the most part, will do what needs to be done at the right time.
The 6.4 will tow my 17000+ MS in OD just as well as it will with the T/H engaged, but I don't use it much unless in mountains that require some extra help in braking. Use of the T/H will often delay the final upshift to OD and you will find, as RW and Huck said, running above 2000 rpm at 60 mph (4th/D) when the truck will easily pull in OD to save fuel.
Often, if you are pulling into headwinds, or a grade that hasn't caused the truck to downshift, you will hear the fan clutch kick in to cool the engine that wouldn't have occurred if in T/H--that is one situation that T/H will help over not using it.
Also, be aware that you CAN'T force the TorqueShift into D (4th) with the shift lever--it will always skip 4th and go to 3rd--the only way to access 4th is to let the computer find it for you when needed--so this is another area where T/H may help--it will keep 4th engaged when needed and you can't get to it any other way. This is the only irritating design I have had a problem with in my 450--they should have given us a way to hold 4th manually if needed. As mentioned above, if I encounter a long grade in OD, the truck will gradually lose speed--use of T/H will sense this and downshift; if you try to use the shift lever, it will downshift to 3rd and cause a higher jump in RPMs than necessary.
Another TorqueShift pecularity--if you put the shift lever in 2 or 3, it will START in 2 or 3 and stay there; there is no way to start in 1 unless you have it in 1--not usually a circumstance that causes a problem, but something to be aware of.
It's a great truck and the TorqueShift works hard and long, just need to be aware how it shifts if you are using the options available.
Joe
By the way, went to AZ in Feb--all the way into 30+ headwinds, got an outstanding 6.0 mpg average for the westward trip. That was painful, and without the extra tank, would have been troublesome looking for fuel.

[terry and jo]

Rodeworthy and Wingnut,

As usual, you guys have come through for me. I really appreciate your help with this. Most of my towing experience in the past was with gasoline engines and smaller pickups, the largest being an F250 towing a TT and our previous fifth wheel.

Those pickups with O/D and the instructions to NOT pull in O/D led me to believe that Tow/Haul needed to be used all the time when towing.

Your answers and comments have been very enlightening. I plan on stealing every word.

Terry

[rotaxman]

Terry and Jo,

In the owners manual of my 2000 F 450 gaser it says to use overdrive unless the truck is back shifting excessively.

As always good camping
Joyce and Jerry