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Old 12-16-2010, 05:00 AM   #1
terry and jo
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Why a TrailSaver Air Hitch and Which One?

Please excuse any odd rambling or strange comments or questions, as I have been being ravaged by Upper Respitory Infection for the last week and a half. I am REALLY searching for a good night's sleep.

However, since I'm not there yet, I'll still ask the question as to why should one get a TrailSaver Air hitch for their fifth wheel? I have read the benefits of the air hitch and fully understand that, but are they so much better than say a Reese hitch with Trail-Aire pin box (equipped with Tri-Glide) and Trail-Aire suspension? Especially considering that the MSRP on the TrailSaver I looked at was nearly $3000?

In addition, besides getting the TrailSaver, one also has to have a system of airing them up, so there is also that cost to consider as well. Perhaps I should be looking at a different hitch than the $3000 one.

While that one is a good one for those whose trucks are already equipped with an air system, like Delaine and Lindy's Freightliner, what TrailSaver hitch should someone be looking at that has a regular pickup, including ones like our Ford F450?

Some comments that I think I remember reading involved the idea of not having to climb into the bed of the truck to adjust the air in the system. That is currently what I do with the Trail-Aire pin box. Plus, I know about the 12V compressor systems that could be installed on one such as ours, but at what cost? I don't even know what the brand name was that was mentioned at this time.

Maybe I ought to wait until I've actually had a good night's sleep? But then, maybe my rambling question may actually have a benefit for others.

What do you all think someone such as Beachgirl or I be looking at in the TrailSaver hitches and various air systems for them? I think one air system mentioned was something like Vlair.

Terry
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Old 12-16-2010, 07:33 AM   #2
Gemstone
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Regarding the hitch, have you researched the product on the Trailer Saver web site ? They will send you a a video, and should be able to expertly answer your questions.
I cannot recall one person indicating that they were sorry for purchasing a Trailer Saver hitch.

As for a portable compressor, I can't imagine traveling without one. I use it for the tires on our trailers, axles on the RV, tires on our trucks and bikes, the pin box. Cost for the compressor is minimal, the convenience is great and the 150 pound capacity pancake compressor offered by say...Porter Cable or Sears will do the job nicely and they are not space hogs.

Granted, on our big truck, the hitch is connected to the on board compressor, so I can adjust or dump air from my seat....but perhaps you could do the same, adding Firestone Ride Rite air bags and the on board compressor, and tapping in the hitch, or just the compressor and controls...again, at minimal cost.

Keep asking questions, you are doing the right thing...by asking BEFORE you buy.

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Old 12-16-2010, 09:04 AM   #3
Motor31
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Our rig has the Trailersaver suspension and air pin box. I have no reason to add an air hitch to it as well. With the air pin box you already have the advantages of the air hitch, with less cost and weight.

Carrying a small air compressor is a good idea. You can buy light duty ones in hardware stores and use them for tires and the pin box.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:31 AM   #4
rdunk
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IMHO - - The Holland Binkley head on the Trailersaver hitch is the best on the market, by specification. It is rated at 32k pounds, and has been laboratory tested to meet/exceed that rating. I especially like the way this hitch is designed to lock around the pin, to ensure the jaws locking block stays put - a spring loaded pin behind the locking block, and a place for a padlock behind the locking block.

When we bought in 2005, I decided on the TrailerSaver hitch. I wanted the weight safety margin the 32k head offered, and I especially liked the features of the hitch, including the smaller "footprint" of the hitch in the truck bed - about 24 inches square, and the fact that it mounted on standard Reese rails. One can get a TrailerSaver hitch in either an air hitch or a "rigid" hitch. I really wasn't even thinking about an air hitch at the time, and bought the rigid hitch, which had an installation rating up to 26,000 lbs.

We fulltimed for almost 5 years, and I was always glad we had the safety of the TrailerSaver hitch.

FWIW - Air hitch or rigid hitch???? The TrailerSaver rigid hitch is great, but, if I were buying today, I would buy the TrailerSaver air hitch, and on the 5thwheel, because of having the "air hitch", I would have a non-air pinbox, and I would have the independent suspension on the wheels.

http://www.trailersaver.com/products.php#hitches

Good luck on your decision!

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Old 12-16-2010, 11:40 AM   #5
rdunk
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Quote Motor 31 - Our rig has the Trailersaver suspension and air pin box.
.................................................. ........

Mike, for clarity, I think you meant to say "Trailair" suspension and pinbox, rather than TrailerSaver?

Robert
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:15 PM   #6
terry and jo
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Some clarification is needed, since I posted the previous question with about 4 hours of sleep. It's rough when you can't lie down to sleep without coughing like crazy.

We already have our coach. In my signature, I have listed the 2010 Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 and the Ford F450 as the towing unit. When we ordered our coach, we ordered the Trail-Aire suspension and the Trail-Aire pin box. (At the time, I didn't know about the Tri-Glide plate, but ours came with it anyway.) In addition, I have a Reese 22K fifth wheel in the back of the F450.

Since some have really praised the TrailSaver air hitch, and Beachgirl (from another 5 page thread) is going to order the TrailSaver but not the Trail-Aire pin box, I had questions come to mind. (However, I think Beachgirl is getting the Trail-Aire suspension, just not the pin box and Tri-Glide.)

If one wants to get a TrailSaver with the Binkley head, the ones for the pickups (as opposed to the MDT's) are listed on TrailSaver's website as a model TS3, rated at 20,000 lbs. One source that I could find that had a price for the TS3 listed it at $2500, including an air compressor.

So, is there an overwhelming reason for me to spend $2000 to $2500 to get a Trailsaver as opposed to less than $1000 for my current Reese, which is still rated 2000lbs higher than the TrailSaver?

While I've only pulled our coach one time for more than 20 or 30 miles at a time, I have been pleased with the ride with the Reese and the Trail-Aire system (pin box with Tri-Glide and suspension on the axles), especially considering Oklahoma's roads.

Now, I am presuming that one does NOT have to have an engine powered air compressor to use the TrailSaver. We do have a Sears air compressor that has a maximum capacity of 150psi. I presume that one could "charge" the TrailSaver air bags with that. Or, does one have to have an engine powered air compressor?

I'm asking the questions because there may be others out there that would like clarification, especially considering the differences in cost between a TrailSaver and a Reese system.

Terry
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Old 12-16-2010, 07:40 PM   #7
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Trailersaver's can be bought with a compressor but they are a 12v unit NOT engine driven.

Trailersavers can be ordered without the compressor and you can fill them the same way you would your Trailair pinbox but the compressor option is much more convenient as you would then have a rocker switch with guage that would allow you to add or exhaust air simply by moving the switch and watching the guage.

The thing to watch is; make sure that the compressor that comes with the unit is rated high enough and with enough CFM's to enable a quick-connect fitting to be used to plug in an air hose to add air to your trailer tires or suspension also.

The Holland-Binkley head is patterned after the commercial big boys and is probably the easiest hitch to operate.

The arcing moment of the Trailersaver is less than the Trailair and will not be complicated by the tendancy of the actual pin to be angled when the lower jaw of the Trailair is all the way down. A standard pinbox will always have the pin in a fixed vertical. Fore and aft tugging will not be as pronounced with the Trailersaver as the hitch head will not have to tilt fore and aft as much when the Trailersaver is moving up and down as it would with the movement of the lower jaw of the Trailair pinbox.

This tilting fore and aft is less noticeable the heavier your truck is as the laws of inertia will apply. This fore and aft will also be directly related to the amount of distance from the two pivot points on either side of your actual hitch head to the top surface of the head's plate.
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:00 AM   #8
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I'm not familiar with Trailsaver...but I am with TrailAir/TriGlide pin box.

Would the Trailsaver actually work against the TrailAir since they both are air ride? The Tri/Glide actually helps with the fore and aft movement and the TrailAir works with the up and down movement. But would there be too much play with everything being air?

Maybe I'll call Kara at TrailAir tomorrow to see what she recommends.......
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:49 AM   #9
terry and jo
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OK. I finally got a little more sleep. Still have to do that sitting up, but there is some improvement.

I found the file on our computer that was the DRV price sheet at the time we ordered our coach. According to that sheet, if one got the Trail-Aire package, one got the axle air suspension, the air pin box AND the Tri-Glide plate, all for the MSRP of $2502.

So, in fairness, the "package" at $2502 and the Reese 22K fifth wheel would be right around $3500 or so at MSRP. But, I know that the package was probably less than that, due to the fact that few ever really charge MSRP.

It would be interesting to know what the Trail-Aire pin box with Tri-Glide would cost by itself. Then, one could more accurately compare the price of that with the Reese and the TrailSaver with a regular pin box.

Plus, the Reese that I got is still rated higher than the TrailSaver TS3 at 20K, which is the one for regular style pickups.

Plus, I apologize for speaking of the compressor being engine driven. As I said, I've not been getting much sleep for the last week. I was remembering that the MDT's do have engine driven compressors, but that pickups would get one that was 12V. Sorry.

Terry
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:43 AM   #10
Motor31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdunk
Quote Motor 31 - Our rig has the Trailersaver suspension and air pin box.
.................................................. ........

Mike, for clarity, I think you meant to say "Trailair" suspension and pinbox, rather than TrailerSaver?

Robert
Yup, good catch there. Because of the similarity in names I often think one name then type the other, sigh.....
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:51 PM   #11
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The Trailair with the TriGlyde optional plate added would indeed be the way to go if considering a hitch other than an air hitch for your truck as the Tri-Glyde uses the weight over the pin of the trailer to center itself for the next fore and aft event, thereby reducing the effect on your truck.

The two air hitches working "against" each other is a popular mis-conception as each has different dampening rates according to the ratings and number of bags in each along with the Trailair having a shock-absorber to dampen/control rebound.

I had both an air hitch and a Trailair pinbox and loved the set-up but then my hitch was a Gene McCall AirGlyder with a "walking beam" with air bags on it to cushion fore and aft AND vertical movement (4 bags in all) as well as 4 shock absorbers to control rebound dampening of all movements. So in total between the two, the Airglyder and the Trailair my trailer was cushioned from towing forces by 5 air bags and 5 shock absorbers. It got a soft ride while being towed by my 17,700lb International.
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:30 AM   #12
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I need to wade into the discussion, but disclaimer, I know nothing. LOL

Here's what my dealer is saying to me AFTER I told him we wanted the TrailerSaver Air hitch:

* The B&W hitch is the best hitch, period. There is no play in the hitch, and
that keeps it from chucking. Though it is rated to 18k, he thinks we will
most likely weigh around 16-17 loaded, and that hitch would be fine.
He recommends getting that. Price installed around 1400. Also, can remove from truck with a "clean" bed...also don't have to cut the liner to install.

* The next best hitch, he says, is the Pullrite. Only negative there is you have to hit it straight on to hitch up. The B&W can be inches off and still connect.

* Next, he recommends the Trailermate...made by the guy who designed the TrailerSaver. Around $1600.

* TrailerSaver will cost at least 1K more. Too heavy to remove from truck easily.

We know nothing but what we read. My only concern with the TrailerSaver is being able to take it out of the truck, and messing up the bedliner. We are planning to order a new Chevy 2011 3500 DRW longbed.

Help!!
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:56 AM   #13
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"My only concern with the TrailerSaver is being able to take it out of the truck, and messing up the bedliner"

While I don't know the weight of the pick up version TrailerSaver, it will be heavy....but even the Li'l Rocker hitch I use in my Dodge is heavy, I usually remove it in 2 pieces. You can figure out a removal method once you know the weight of the unit, which should be available on the TS website. TS will also be able to guide you through their recommended installation procedure, whether you follow it is up to you.

Two schools of thought on the "hitch and bedliner" issue...some say don't place the hitch or rails directly on the bedliner for fear of poor attachment, due to the bedliner's "peaks and valley's" flexing when bolted down. That method is to cut the bedliner and remove the material between the rails and the metal of the bed, thus metal to metal contact and good bolt torque is attained. Good logic, but now you have holes in your bedliner.

The method I used is a modified version of the above...the bedliner is left intact, metal rod, the same thickness as the "peak/valley variance in the bedliner is placed in the valley portion underneath the rail, thus the only compression I have to be concerned about is the thickness of the bedliner material, not the peak/valley difference. Using lock washers and fiber locking nuts, my attachment has not loosened in 4 years of use, and no holes in my bedliner.

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Old 12-18-2010, 09:17 AM   #14
terry and jo
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Beachgirl,

While I can't speak to the other hitches you mentioned, I can attest that at least two or three people whom I've talked to said that Reese was one of the best for regular hitches. Like the Pull-rite, one needs to be straight on towards the pin. One person even said they were THE best. My memory isn't great, but it seems like our hitch with installation and 7-way electrical connection in the bed was just over $1000. (Now, I really need to check with the "money guru", otherwise known as Jo, to be sure.

As for the weight issue, you do need to know what our coach weighed out from the factory after building it. The sheet of paper included with the 38TKSB3 lists GVWR at 18,500 pounds, but the empty weight as shipped to us was 15,695 pounds. That is already close to one of the figures that your dealer said yours should weigh loaded. I think you posted that he said something like 16 to 17K. Well, my empty weight is at 16K.

The heaviest items that I think we added were the inverter and its four batteries and the Level-Up system.

Now, from what I gather from your posts, you are NOT planning to be living full time in your DRV. Thus, you may very well not be putting that much weight into your coach, however, you will be packing stuff for at least 6 people. So you do have that working for you. Remember that the B&W type hitch puts additional forces against your coach frame.

Now, regarding bedliners. Keep in mind that Jo and I grew up in agriculture, so pickups were a necessary way of life. In all the times on the farm and ranch, we NEVER had a bedliner. Later on, after I became city-fied, I did have one installed in a new pickup. When I went to trade a few years later, planning on switching the bedliner to the new one, I saw the damage done to the bed by the bedliner being there.

Sand and dirt still gets under the bedliner, moisture gets under the bedliner, and then the motions of the bedliner in the back tends to grind away at the paint and metal. Without a bedliner installed, one can always wash out cleanly and use touch up paint on scratches. Sorry, I won't ever have another. The only kind of bedliner that I might consider would be one of the "spray-in" types.

Terry
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:39 AM   #15
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Beachgirl, just to give some insite on the B&W turnover ball with the companion 5th wheel hitch. I used the B&W system in conjuction with a Trailair pin box when we had the 2009 Mobile Suites, and it worked great, don't think the 5th wheel rode as well. When we ordered the 2010 Mobile Suites 38 RSSB 3 with the vanity slide the GVW is 18,500 lbs. The B&W capacity is 18,000 lb and 30,000 Gooseneck capacity. I called B&W and talked to them to see if there was anyway to increase the 18,000 lb capacity, his answer no way. And the 18,500 lbs Suites was to heavy.

As for the Head used on the Companion 5th wheel hitch it use the same or similar wrap around system as the Trailer Saver, your information is correct there is no movement and the system work very easy hooking and unhooking. The Trailer Saver works the same. The Trailer Saver work similar to the 5th wheel hitches on many Class 8 Trucks.

And for those who don't know the Trailer Saver BD 3 can be removed, it breaks down into three pieces. The TS 3 is a 1 piece system and very heavy, however I removed my several times.

As for the person who use to work for Trailer Saver and is now selling a similar hitch, can't comment have never heard of the hitch. But if you can use the B&W system its the best static hitch I have ever used. And its the most user friendly steel hitch and it the safest as for hooking and unhooking. But I went back to the Trailer Saver becauses I wanted less stress on our 5th wheel. As for cost, think about what you paid for the Truck and 5th wheel. Hope this helps. (No I get no compensation from Trailer Saver).

P.S. The owner of B&W kept his people working during the slow times. dwroplgjeow
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:44 AM   #16
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I agree with Terry ref to plastic bed liners. They do more damage than protection. I have use plastic bedliners and also the Spray in type. I now only use a rubber mat. I also mount the B&W over the rubber bed mat. No issues, my opinion plastic bed liners spray in's etc is that the cost can be better used.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:07 PM   #17
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JMHO:

The B&W set-up is a premium hitching system as is any PullRite hitch but the jaw mechanism of whatever head is used is NOT the only cause of chukking.

The Reese's are very fine hitches IF you go with the Signature series as they duplicate the geometry of the Binkley heads and they can also be hooked up relatively easy with truck off-angle. A cheaper Reese has many linkage pins and arms that wear out over time and will allow those jaws to open slightly which allows for fore and aft movement of the pin in relation to the head - BAD thing. You should also consider the locking mechanism of the hitch jaws with as much consideration as you're giving your choice of hitch itself. you do not want your trailer hook-up relying on a flimsy flip-over piece of sheet metal into a little goove in the handle, but rather on a system that allows for the placement of a stout padlock into a hole preventing a segmant of the jaw locking hardware from moving an iota.

You should do this as routine also to prevent unhooking through either mistake or deliberate act by others.

Bedliner's are the death nell to any pick-up bed as trapped moisture and other debris will rot the thing faster than a naked bed that is rinsed out frequently. This I learned the hard way over years of pick-up ownership. If you feel the need to protect your bed from scrapes, scratches or rust; Linex, Rhino lining or any other quality spray-in bed coating are the way to go. Failing that I would advise 'gashing' the plastic bedliner as it is more harm than help at this point.

While these opinions aren't likely to be received with joy; they nevertheless come with the best of intentions and, for the most part, can be easily verified.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:18 PM   #18
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We had an 18k Reese hitch with our 36' Elite Suite rated at 18.5k. The hitch was a carryover from a 5er that only weighed in at 16.5k. We kept the Elite light because of tow rating on truck and hitch, which was hard to do with 2 adults and one child. But we managed for over a year. When we upgraded the truck, we stuck with a Reese and upgraded to a 22k. Better over than under!

The 18k had no rails and when removed it left us a smooth bed. The 22k is a different version, rails stay in place, but aren't a problem. David also has an auxillary fuel tank and the V-shape rear tool box. So having the rails hasn't presented a problem.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:03 PM   #19
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B&W Companion hitch

"The B&W hitch is the best hitch, period. There is no play in the hitch, and that keeps it from chucking. Though it is rated to 18k, he thinks we will most likely weigh around 16-17 loaded, and that hitch would be fine.
He recommends getting that. Price installed around 1400. Also, can remove from truck with a "clean" bed...also don't have to cut the liner to install."

Au contraire--there has to be a hole in the liner/pickup bed to mount the square pole into the underframe hitch. I know, got one. But they are sweet, if you are under 18K gross trailer weight.

Joe
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:43 PM   #20
Beachgirl
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So what are the down sides to a TrailerSaver hitch, other than price!

And thank you for the info on bedliners- we had no idea.

We finalized our MS order today- now just need a truck, and a hitch! :D

Dh is reading all your posts with interest...but hasn't gotten the time to research some more...thus the silence in the face of such excellent replies...
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