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Old 06-24-2008, 08:48 AM   #1
Mikey
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Fridge Problem

Another Dometic Fridge Problem

Year old fridge - has worked well until recently. I know it's still under warranty, but unlike a fridge in a house, the "repair guys" want me to bring the fridge to them. No one around here seems to do "mobile" stuff. Planning to take it in when we get on the road in a few weeks.

Seems to stop working in the fridge area first, then the freezer gets warmer. No change between electric and gas.

No ambiant weather switch - yes Ilooked everywhere, and Dometic confirms that.

Checked the 2 fans outside - don't seem to be turning

Solution: If I shut off the unit for about 15 minutes, then repower - it works! Seems to occur about every 4-5 days. I think we start the "process" of failure by having the door open to either load or unload fridge - i.e. 3 or 4 times within a short time span.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:03 PM   #2
billr
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Hi Mikey,

The fans run off a thermostat and come on when the OAT is below a set temp, not sure what it is, but they should come on when its in the high 70's -80's. Mine failed a long time ago, so it's removed and switches installed to turn on as I need them. The fans do help, but it sure sounds like you have other issues causing you problems. Talk to Andy about installing switches.

There is a temp control thermostat that could be bad (someone else had that replaced for a similar problem). Then the elec control board is always a concern.

Hope they get it going for you soon.

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Old 06-24-2008, 01:31 PM   #3
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Mikey, I don't think I have heard of a problem like yours before, in looking online for help with my own problems in the past. Your fridge seeming to start warming up every 4 to 5 days is certainly not good!!!

Regarding the fans, the temp sensor (on the fridge exterior cooling fins) is rated to turn the fans on at 150 -160 degree range, and shuts the fans off in the 135 degree range. A qualified RV service tech told me this, and then used a heat gun and heat sensor to verify my temp sensor was working right. So, when you listen for the fans, they won't be running, unless the on-temp has been reached. I had originally logically thought that the external area of the fridge should be as cool as possible, but, now I now assume the higher operating temps are necessary for the adequate cooling of these RV type fridges.

Since you said the fridge had worked well for a year, then you obviously have seen the changes, However, as you must know already from experience on one of these RV fridges, having the door open for a long period, and/or loading it with stuff that is not already cold, will cause the fridge to warm up, and it usually takes some extended period for it to cool back down.

You might unplug the "thermister" cable from the ckt card on the back of the fridge, to verify if it might be bad. With the thermister unplugged, the fridge should default to "on high". The thermister sensor is that thing that is attached to an inside cooling fin, and regulates the fridge cooling to however you have it set to cool. If you do this, you don't need to remove the thermister from the fin, just unplug it on the rear. If unplugging the thermister stops the fridge from warming up every 4 or 5 days, then that may be your problem.

Are your interior fridge fins icing up. Icing will cause our temps to go up, and occasional defrosting takes care of that.

Most of us have had fridge problems, so, hopefully you can hear from someone here who has had a problem similar to what you are having.

Good luck!
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:34 PM   #4
keithandpenne
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Damn-etic Fridge

We have the Damn-etic NDR1292, side by side with ice maker, that is now approx 3 1/2yrs old. We have always had it set on 3 and the beer placed on the shelf under the cooling fins would freeze after 3-5 days if it was not rotated (drank) properly.

It worked great until about 3 months ago when we noticed the box temp starting to creep up. We changed the set point to 4 and after a few weeks, increased to 5. Now the temp in the box has risen to the mid 40's to low 50's.

I completed the following:
1)defrosted the boxes,
2)looked for refrigerant leaks inside and out,
3)checked fuses - all 4, (2 in the control box of which one is a 3 amp and the other is a 5 amp, of the other 2 are in-line fuses, one is a 1 amp for the ice maker solenoid and the other is a 3 amp for the single fan (yes, it only has one fan)),
4)heater operation (both 120 ac and propane) including using the hand to test for heating of tank, evaporator and accumulator,
5)fan operation and air flow obstructions,
6)loose, worn or frayed wires.

Inside the RV, I checked:
1) all of the door seals (both doors) using a dollar bill to see if the door seals were still tight and found a good drag when pulling the bill out.
2)Interior box light is off, (switch still works properly).
3)Climate control switch on to heat door frame to control condensation as we are in south Texas with its high humidity.
4)Refrigerant leakage.

I did a forum search and read all postings that references refrigerators and have tried sliding the thermistor up and down on the refrigerator side evaporator fins which provided little to no change. I have unplugged the thermistor from the control box to see if it will default to constant run. I had the remote outside so the indicated temp is still dropping at this point.

So far, I have not found anything that appears to be the cause of the problem and have had a local Mobile RV service tech out. His first move was to slide the thermistor clear to the top of the fins (take three pills and call me next week if it is not better). He stopped by again yesterday and since nothing had changed, said "I think it is the cooling unit that needs to be changed". No other trouble shooting or testing.

The purpose of this long post is to let you know what has been checked and the findings. If someone has additional tests or checks that can be done on the circuit board or other switches and controls, please post. Can a ohm meter test the thermistor? Are the switches normally open or closed, etc. What is the test port and how does it work.

Obviously, the cooling unit could be bad, but I would sure like some sort of troubleshooting done before agreeing to its replacement (price quoted just under $2000 installed and no guarantee that will fix it). Just skeptical I guess!
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:27 PM   #5
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Quote: " I have unplugged the thermistor from the control box to see if it will default to constant run. I had the remote outside so the indicated temp is still dropping at this point".
.................................................. .................................................. ..
Keith, if your temp is still dropping, then I assume you are going to wait to see where it goes, before doing anything else. The thermister can go bad, because a service tech replaced mine.

On replacing the cooling unit, my cooling unit was replaced under warranty. Wow, that is a big job The fridge must be removed, to the outside, and everything on the back of the fridge is removed, the cooling unit is removed, the new cooling unit is installed, all of the removed misc parts are reinstalled, and then the fridge is reinstalled. After going through all of this on our fridge, nothing changed. It still did not cool correctly for us. I went through all of this to make the point that I think you are very smart to be "skeptical" about replacing the cooling unit until you know for sure.

I can't say for sure what made our fridge start working properly, but I think it maybe was when I moved the thermister in such a way as it (the end of the thermister wire) actually made direct contact with the fin. It works so good, I won't even take it off the fin to check it out. After two years of aggravation with our RV type fridge, it started working "ok" for us about a year ago, when in fooling with the thermister wire, I tried to make sure the end of the wire was actually touching the fin.

If I was going to have to pay for installation of a new cooling unit, at the prices you mention, I would (as you probably are too) give strong consideration to a new fridge, maybe even residential type. Probably not much warranty on just a new cooling unit either.

FWIW! And good luck with getting this fixed!
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:45 AM   #6
keithandpenne
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Fridge

Robert, thanks for your input. I did not intend to take over Mikeys thread, but our problem is sounds very much like his and wanted to try and get a complete record of troubleshooting in one place.

Rotaxman, thanks for your pm and suggestions and have observed the same.

Todays update:
As of late yesterday afternoon, our fridge box temp had only dropped to 52.3 after unplugging the thermistor from the control box terminals P2. The fan was not running, so I unplugged the fan control switch and direct wired the ends together so that the fan runs constant.

As of now, the fridge box temp has dropped to 36.1. The thermistor is still unplugged and the fan is still wired to run constant.

Still not sure what the actual fault is, but I'm betting it is not the $2000 cooling unit. It could be the thermistor but I need to determine if it is a normally open or closed or if works off of a variable resistance caused by a temperature change. It could be the fan switch and I will check it further with a heat gun and thermometer. It could be the circuit board and there is a test point wire but my owners manual does not give any details on how to check it.

I called the Mobile Suites dealer in Corpus and they said that if we would bring it in, they would gladly check it out. Upon my saying we were full-timers and staying at Port Aransas for the summer, they said they would have their mobile tech call and set up an appointment to come out and look at it.

At least we have been able to cool off the adult beverages and other food for now.

Mike, have you been able to find out the problem on yours?
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:02 PM   #7
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Mikey: Any update?

keithandpenne: Wow, so he moved the thermister and when that failed, diagnosed it as a bad cooling unit? Somebody should slap him with a wet noodle. Repeatedly. :roll: It sounds like since you bypassed the temp sensor for the fans all is well?
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:20 PM   #8
rdunk
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Of course, all of our "fridge problem" experiences tend to be similar to somewhat different. I can say, that when I wired the fans to run fulltime, the fridge did not run colder. So, I changed the wiring back for the fans to run per the temp sensor.

Keith, until you either plug the thermister back in, or, change the fans back, you may not know for sure why the fridge is running colder. However, as you know, with the thermister unplugged, the fridge should be running on high.
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:26 PM   #9
jdwilson3
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Fridge problems

Our mobile tech replaced our "140" degree sensor with a "90". Fans run a lot here in Arizona!

Yesterday our 3 amp 12 volt side fuse blew. Lost all power to the 'fridge until we replaced the 3 amp fuse. Glad we were around when the fuse blew, because we had been gone for 10 days and would have lost lots of stuff in the freezer!
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:01 PM   #10
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Refer cooling problem resolved

Well, I will offer our experience with fridge problems this past winter. It was covered in another post but I am not sure if I ever posted the result of our repair efforts.

First, be aware in Mobile Suites 2007 model year Dometic came out with new model refers -mine is the two door 9 cu ft model with the stainless steel look on the front door. The indicator above the freezer door shows a temperature and error codes (if they exist) that are generated by the new control board with built-in diagnostics. Mikey, I can't remember if you have the two door fridge or the larger one but the controls should be the same as on our units (same model year).

In our experience we could not keep the lower box cold enough even running on the maximum setting of 5 in a range of 1-5. The freezer, on the other hand, stayed very cold telling me it was not a cooling problem but instead a control problem. Our freezer would consistantly be below 0 deg F when the fridge was between 40 and 50 degrees. Originally we could keep the fridge between 32 and 40 degrees on setting 3. When the fridge worked properly the freezer was more in the order of +5 to +10 deg F.

Our problems began after a thorough defrosting and cleaning of the entire fridge during which the plastic thermistor holder at the right of the fins was dislodged from its original position. It was replaced but we had not observed where it was in the first place and none of the Dometic documents we had even mentioned this sensor but the diagram and parts list did show it. There was no indication of where to place it. We tried many configurations to no avail.

I checked all the fuses and the operation of the fans. I could not get an indication that the fans ever ran. Our problem persisted even through ambient temps that were colder than the interior of our refrigerator box. I did find the insulation above the fins in the upper compartment had fallen down onto the fins. I used duct tape to resecure this insulation so as to allow maximum air flow out of the compartment.

On our way home from our winter destination we stopped at a RV tech in Indiana to have this and other warranty issues addressed. The tech called a refrigerator tech who came out and tested the fuse and applied a heat gun to the heat sensor on the fins in the upper outside compartment. He changed the 1A fuse to a 3A fuse (supplied by me) and left. We observed no change in the condition and we were in ambient temps in the mid 30's to mid 40's.

The service tech without consulting me proceeded to remove much of the insulation around the walls of the fridge area ostensibly to allow more air flow around the unit. There was no change in the condition and the shop had nothing more to offer.

I moved to a local camp and contacted Dometic. I had heard horror stories about this but I got connected immediately with a helpful representative who upon hearing my description indicated it was either a thermistor sensor problem or a circuit board problem. He suggested I pull the connection for the thermistor which would cause the cooling system to cool as hard as it could. The indicator on the front showed error code E0. We needed several hours to verify the result. The fridge did come down several degrees under this condition. I notified Domtetic and they advised getting the sensor checked by a qualifed service tech. I set out to find a refrigeration technician and after several calls and referals I was placed in contact with Leon Herschberger who runs National RV Refrigeration from his shop north of Shipshewana IN. Phone (260) 768-7059. This young man knows his stuff. He was able to diagnose the sensor problem by an interesting method.

He shut down the 110V operation of the refer causing it to go to propane operation. This was done so that he could get a visual indication when the fridge was calling for cooling (the propane would burn). Next he placed the sensor in a cup of water filled with ice cubes. This water would be about 32 degrees F which is the range we were trying to achieve. by observing the operation of the propane burner and moving the sensor in and out of the ice water he was able to determine the sensor was defective. He cut the connector off the original one and taped the new one to it and used that combination to feed the new sensor up into the fridge compartment. He placed it with about 1/2" showing above the plastic holder. It was not touching a fin but was just above the top edge of the fins. Previously I had a problem with the holder falling off the fins but I had resolved that by applying a strip of double-sided foam tape between the gripping surfaces of the holder. I did not remove the protective strip on the outer side of the tape. This made the holder stay in place quite well and still allowed for adjustment.

We ran the fridge for several hours to see if we had made progress and I am delighted that we now run our fridge on level 3 and have perfect control of temperature in the fridge and freezer. I have not touched it since - no need to take it apart to find out why it is working so good.

I was very impressed with Leon Herschberger and recommended him to a friend of mine who was also having similar refer problems. His issue was different than mine but Leon fixed him up and he is also happy to see his fridge running properly on level 3. If you are in that area I highly recommend National RV Refrigeration for your Dometic or Norcold problems.

Mikey, you are correct that there is no longer an ambient control switch in this model.

On line information about the position of the sensor is confusing -some users claim moving the sensor down increases cooling, some say the same for moving it up. The correct answer is to move the thermistor up to minutely increase cooling in the fridge. The sensor should not touch the fins.

I realize that your problem is different since you are losing cooling in your freezer too but I hope some of the diganostic methods we went through might be helpful for you to determine the problem. I have to say I was pleased with my contact with Dometic but I have heard others were not so fortunate.

I hope you get this resolved quickly. Refers are an absolute necessity and there is much angst when they don't work. Good Luck.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:04 AM   #11
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Exactly

Roadworthy - exactly the same problem - and I hope the same solution.
I disconnected the thermister from the circuit board and switched to propane. Fridge is now at at 26 degrees - yup - that cold.
Have appointment at Can-Am this week - Thurs and Friday. I hope they agree to replace the thermister.

p.s see you in Quebec city.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:15 AM   #12
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where is the other end of the thermister wire? i have the wside by side so went outside and opened both compartments....at the top one I could see the white tube coming out and gpoin into lower compartment...then down there it is all confusing. found one that is attached with a brass nut...is that it?
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:19 AM   #13
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also in the top compartment the pice of foil that is holding up the insulation has fallen down and is sitting on top of the unit....restricting air flow? it is held up with duct tape...seems pretty frail solution. could that be part of my colling problem? it is holding steady at 50 degrees in the frig and the freeqer is fine...
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:38 AM   #14
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and....one fin is bent and touching another fin...can't get my phone away from DH to use it to call Dometic so that is why I am here bugging you guys
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:55 AM   #15
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First; thermistor wire, nope, it won't go to a common post with a nut attachment but rather inside the "black box" circuit board control center.
My Fridge is the series RM 2862 but am willing to bet the boards are very similar so; remove the cover (can be a pain) and look for 2 plugs in the upper left corner of the board with P1 & P2 printed on the board beside them, the upper plug is the P1 with six contacts that is the control panel connection to the front of the fridge and the one right below it is the P2 plug with 2 contacts, this P2 is your thermistor connection.

If others with a fridge similar to yours find these instructions to be incorrect PLEASE chime in!

Sagging foil liner, yep, that will inhibit cooling air from performing it's role efficiently using natural convection up through the rear of the cabinet. You need to make sure that the path cooling air will take up through the back of the unit and over those coils and fins is as un-obstructed as it can be.

A bent fin is not going to cause any detrimental effect other than to perhaps keep you from scalping yourself when trying to get your head in far enough to look down to see the fans location/function. Don't ask, the scar is gradually fading!
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:25 PM   #16
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frig

thank you i am headed outside...will be careful...i was wondering where those fans are..don't hear any fans....gas running nonstop though
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:58 PM   #17
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Using a hand held mirror the fan/s (if installed) can be seen about halfway up the height of the fridge in the rear cabinet cavity, in amongst all of that grey tubing. If you attempt to use a step ladder and stick your head into the upper cavity opening; BE CAREFUL, those fins are SHARP!

Also be carful if poking around in there with your bare hands as some sections of that tubing are very hot, especially the burner/heater tower.
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Old 08-08-2008, 10:10 PM   #18
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fridge problems

I am having similar problems with my NDR 1292 model. Will the unit default to max cooling after disconnecting the thermister on either elec or gas?

Over the 4th, it didn't cool below 45--came home, parked it, shut it off. Turned it on on elec a week later, it cooled to below 32 in the refrigerator side--for over a week--so, I decided it corrected itself. Just turned it back on 2 days ago, won't go below 50. OAT is 100 during day, 80 at night, so it is having to work hard anyway. I just took the thermister offline to see what happens, and left it on elec. Fan never comes on, fuses are ok.

Any ideas more than what has been discussed?
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Old 08-08-2008, 10:21 PM   #19
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fridge

not a clue...disconnecting the thermister brought it down about 5 degrees. new thermister should be here on Monday but I won't be able to get to install until Wednesday..according to Rodeworthy...this the right path to take. others seem to have the same issue and repair.
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Old 08-08-2008, 10:37 PM   #20
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Fridge problems

Well, also plan to get the original fan wired to a switch, and a second fan added. If tomorrow I see that any improvement has been shown with the thermister offline, then will get one of them. After that....theres the GS warranty to fall back on.

Gotta get this fixed soon, got a long trip to WY coming up.

Joe
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