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Old 10-23-2015, 11:07 AM   #41
JimGnitecki
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If I sound too demanding, I'm sorry, but after owning and living fulltime for 4 months to a year at a time in 3 different types of RVs (pusher, conversion bus, and trailer), I've concluded that a lot of RVs are built with too many built-in potential issues, and I feel that life is too short to spend it trying to deal with those issues.

The industry as a whole, except for a few exceptions, tries too hard to go for sizzle versus "good bones". I realize that this is a result of what people are willing to pay for and what they are not willing to pay for. Unfortunately, it means way too many RVs have some or even all of the following issues:

- Water leaks from the exterior, that remain hidden until the damage is fairly severe, caused by too many shell joints or shell joints that require too much maintenance to remain reliably watertight

- Water leaks from plumbing, that remain hidden until the damage is fairly severe, caused by cheap plumbing components and unskilled or rushed workmanship

- Unreliable electric and/or electronic systems that fail, caused by cheap components or improper installation, and by a general focus on providing whiz bang features to wow the buyers, ignoring the unreliability introduced by the bad combination of cheap components and iffy workmanship

- The use of heavy components because they are cheaper to use in the build process than more sophisticated lightweight solutions. Examples include waferboard which is heavy and easily damaged by water leaks, I-beams because they require less labor than box beams, stacked beams because they require less welding and labor than engineered space frames, plywood floors and roof skins that are heavy and easily damaged by water leaks

- The use of so many slides per unit that basic structural integrity of the RV is severely compromised, leading to cracks in sidewall skins, and almost no ability to handle minor accidents

- The use of "one button does all 4 slides" systems that prevent either movement or use of the RV when they mess up

For me, the attractions of an RV lifestyle are supposed to include simplicity and low stress. But leak potential and its resulting severe damage, having to buy and maintain a BIG diesel tow vehicle, towing 7 to 10 TONS on hilly and rainy highways, and electrical and electronic failures that irritate, or worse prevent usage (e.g. slide problems, leveling system problems), are not consistent with simplicity and low stress.

It looks to me that the most reliable and simplest RV solutions are not marketed primarily as RVs, but rather as horse trailers (for hauling horses and housing their owners at shows) and race trailers (for hauling racecars or racing motorcycles and housing their owners at race tracks). Those 2 solutions seem to have their emphasis on the right things: reliability and durability. Maybe because horse owners and racecar owners won't tolerate having to do constant maintenance on their trailers - they are too busy focusing on their animals and race vehicles, which are their moneymakers and the things they enjoy doing in life.

I wish that the same philosophy used on horse trailers and race trailers would be applied to RVs.

Unfortunately, I can't quite adopt either of those 2 solutions by the looks of it. I can't finance a horse trailer with my current combination of income, credit score, and desire to avoid making my Social Security taxable via a big 401k withdrawal. And used versus new horse trailers that are 8.5' wide and 40' long are too rare (Most are "narrow body" - some as narrow as 6'8"). I can much more easily buy a used race trailer for surprisingly low prices (when a racer decides he wants a bigger one, he generally sells the current one for a pretty reaosnable price from what I have seen!), but my rssearch shows that race trailers have 2 characteristics that are not good:

1. They usually have pretty "basic" living quarters, because the race wants to put as much of his scarce cash as possible into parts that will make his car go faster and thus let him win more prize money and sponsor support, and

2. The rear half of the trailer - the car garage - generally has NO windows (for security reasons), and adding windows to a trailer that does not have the proper framing from the factory for them, is always very costly (trailer has to be unskinned and new framing members welded in) and often utterly impractical.

A "vendor" trailer has the robust construction of the horse and race car trailers, but is seldom anywhere near 40 feet long - they are usually about half that length.

Still looking. I'm very persistent.

Jim G
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:29 PM   #42
Joezilla
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Ummmm...........explain to me again why you are discussing racer trailers, horse trailers, and Carriage Domani trailers in a DRV area of this website?

I truly do not get it.

Joe
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:54 PM   #43
JimGnitecki
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Originally Posted by Joezilla View Post
Ummmm...........explain to me again why you are discussing racer trailers, horse trailers, and Carriage Domani trailers in a DRV area of this website?

I truly do not get it.

Joe
Because those are the alternatives I see to a DRV. Why on a DRV forum? Because DRV is the BEST of the consumer RVs that I have found, unless you go to truly ridiculously expensive choices like high end customs.

But a DRV still has rubber over plywood roof, and plywood floors, and houses that need to do 60 mph in rain just don't seal that well unless their roofs and walls are as close to one-piece as possible. And, DRVs are very heavy.

Sigh . . .

Hard to see a great solution.

Jim G
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:36 PM   #44
Joezilla
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Because those are the alternatives I see to a DRV. Why on a DRV forum? Because DRV is the BEST of the consumer RVs that I have found, unless you go to truly ridiculously expensive choices like high end customs.

Sigh . . .

Hard to see a great solution.

Jim G
Why on a DRV forum would we want to discuss alternatives to DRV's? I don't think you "get" it.

Your last post states that DRV is the BEST you have found, but then you go on to denigrate their construction.

I feel that you will still be around several months or years after today, still trying to find that "holy grail" RV that meets your expectations, both in build quality and cost.

The solution is to purchase a DRV, but you don't want to spend the money obviously.

Sigh.

Joe
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:39 PM   #45
GlennWest
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Well you paint a very negative view of 5thers. I agree quality is a minus on most modern mass produced units. My Teton is trouble free. It is warm and easy to cool. It looks very good inside and out. We are very satisfied with it and we are hard to please. Yes it is heavy, but we have solid oak trim, cabinets (lots of them too), etc. Lots of storage and a 6' + man can walk upright anywhere in it. We have 3 large slides. Really opens up unit and makes a very roomy living experience. What you are considering I wouldn't. There are some very nice units on the market. You don't have to spend a lot of money either.
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Old 10-24-2015, 08:28 AM   #46
golf_bears
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"After owning and living fulltime for 4 months to a year at a time in 3 different types of RVs (pusher, conversion bus, and trailer)", your words.

Why with so much experience with RVs are you on this forum heckling DRV owners with all you foolish counter banter? Will you please just move on.
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Old 10-24-2015, 11:22 AM   #47
JimGnitecki
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Originally Posted by golf_bears View Post
"After owning and living fulltime for 4 months to a year at a time in 3 different types of RVs (pusher, conversion bus, and trailer)", your words.

Why with so much experience with RVs are you on this forum heckling DRV owners with all you foolish counter banter? Will you please just move on.
I have.

Jim G
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:50 AM   #48
missourijan
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Wow, golf_bears you said it much better than me. But Glenn West continues to post on the Drv sites to tell us how much better his Teton is than the Drv and you aren't flaming him??? just sayin. . . . .
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:53 PM   #49
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missourijan,
Nice to hear from you.

The point I was trying to make was that folks should be on this forum to share their experiences and opinions. When they get counterpunched for sharing those experiences and opinions it is time for the counterpuncher to move on.

Guys like Wingnut60, billr and porkchop have a lot of RV knowledge and I for one really appreciate their contributions to the forums. They’ve helped me a number of times with great solutions to RV issues. I hope they continue sharing with us.

GlennWest is also a very good contributor with lots of RV experience. Again, I appreciate his input even if he’s moved on to a Teton. I could care less if DRV is better than Tetons or vice versa. I’m happy with my MS.

Also your comments and experiences are also welcome. I take no offence in your post.

I hope this thread doesn’t turn into a P--P—contest. We’re all adults here and as long as we keep it that way we’ll all be happy campers.

Hope we meet up with you on the road someday. Happy Trails.
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Old 10-28-2015, 04:13 PM   #50
GlennWest
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Why would someone fame me? I have not downed DRV. Ours was, I believe, was one that slipped through the cracks. We had way too many quality issues. Our DRV was a beautiful unit. We enjoyed it. The Teton is a step up from DRV. But Teton costs more than DRV so no put down there. I do believe one can get a bad unit in any of them. But that is not the norm. But there are several high end orphans out there for low dollars. The OP really need to look at them and reconsider his reasoning. Side note: I waste time posting in Teton section. It is dead.
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Old 10-30-2015, 07:47 PM   #51
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No I haven't, BUT, right now, this is the best USED deal we can see in our local market area. No used DRVs that are anywhere close to our financial abilities - that 2015 Tradition was the best DRV deal in this market area, and we could not get financing that would work for us.

There are a couple of Redwoods within 200 miles, but the least costly one is a 2013 asking $50K.

So, the used Carriage Domani is the OPPOSITE of "he has already made his mind up". It's a flexible response to an impediment in the way of getting the DRV.

I'm still asking for specific reasons that the Domani would be a poor choice, and haven't yet seen any presented to me here.

Jim G
I also think you made up your mind. You're in a defensive mode by your responses. You ask for our opinion, take it or leave it. Don't raise your hackles or get angry. If you can not afford a DRV, then why is it in the running and why are you asking. I believe the last year the Carriage’s Domani was produced was 2010. Is there a reason it's gone? Were they dropped because they didn't sell or was it because of the RV Industry Slaughter. There are only a few privately owned RV manufactures out there... I believe the last RV Industry Slaughter was because One Bank carried everyone. Are we headed that way again? At times it looks that way. If they would concern themselves with QUALITY rather than QUANTITY we'd all be happier.

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Old 10-30-2015, 08:02 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JimGnitecki View Post
Because those are the alternatives I see to a DRV. Why on a DRV forum? Because DRV is the BEST of the consumer RVs that I have found, unless you go to truly ridiculously expensive choices like high end customs.

But a DRV still has rubber over plywood roof, and plywood floors, and houses that need to do 60 mph in rain just don't seal that well unless their roofs and walls are as close to one-piece as possible. And, DRVs are very heavy.

Sigh . . .

Hard to see a great solution.

Jim G

If those are the alternatives that YOU see to a DRV, then go buy a horse trailer. We own DRV's for a reason... When you figure that out, you might own one also! By the way how are you going to tow your RV?
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