Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-01-2012, 08:19 AM   #1
imouttahere
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: On the Road
Posts: 50
Adding another inverter

I need some help wiring in a 2000w pursine inverter with a solar syst. I will be able to run everything except the AC units, but I'm not real clear on how to wire in the new inverter with the existing system. I know the MS unit has an 80 amp inverter in the basement that powers the DC from the shore power or gen (using a transfer switch). Do I replace that inverter or leave it in the system? I'm guessing I need an additional transfer switch and a sub panel to wire the new inverter in, but would like anyone elses experience with this. Not sure if I should run the whole system from this new inverter or leave the other one in and just run the microwave and a few other outlets that would be used for items that work better with the pure sine. The solar system & bat. Ah will be large enough to handle the micro.

gd
__________________

imouttahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 09:07 AM   #2
Motor31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,130
Why do you figure you need a second inverter? Just run the charging wire from the solar into the input side of the inverter and let it charge the battery bank. The solar panels are not going to support any load, they just charge the batteries. Trying to run a second inverter is probably going to put a short circuit into the 120 volt system. If the current inverter is too small then simply upgrade to a larger wattage unit but don't try to run 2 in the same system. Don't forget the inverter needs enough batteries to support the load as well. The power comes from them, not the panels.

If your unit currently has a CONVERTER that is a different situation. Remove that unit and replace it with the inverter. A converter just takes shore power to charge the battery(ies). It doesn't take battery power to run any 120 volt items.
__________________

__________________
Mike Nancy and the fuzzies
Fulltiming since June 2004
Volvo 660 MH tow vehicle
2005 MS 38RL
2007 Saturn Ion "toad"
2010 Gold Wing "piggyback"
Motor31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 09:25 AM   #3
imouttahere
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: On the Road
Posts: 50
Well that's a different concept than I've seen everyone else do with solar. Usually they use a controller like the Morning star series to charge the batteries. I was going to use the MPPT 60, since I have about 30v and 705w coming down from the roof from 3 panels. Will the inverter handle that like the boost controller would? There's 6 - 6v bats for a total of 672 Ah. I don't want to run the generator any more than I have to. It sucks propane at a gal. an hour. We won't be on shore power much of the time.

gd
imouttahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 05:18 PM   #4
porkchop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 382
You have inverter and convertor confused. Invertor turns 12V into 120V. Convertor turns 120V into 12V.

Bill
porkchop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2012, 07:16 PM   #5
imouttahere
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: On the Road
Posts: 50
So then it's an 80 amp "converter" that DRV puts into the MS to turn the shore power and generator output into dc... I would like to convert (not to be confused with a converter) the dc from the bats to ac and would like to know if anyone has added one to their system & how they wired it in.

gd
imouttahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:24 AM   #6
Motor31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,130
If you have a standard installation from DRV then you have a converter. All it does is take shore power to charge the batteries. It does not supply ac power to anything.

A inverter takes battery power at 12 volts and changes it to 120 volt ac current to use for things like the tv and any computer you might have. It will also use the 12 volts coming from the panels to charge the battery bank. I have doubts that most will be able to handle the draw of a microwave. You'll have to check the specs of both the microwave and inverter to see if there is enough wattage to work.

If you have a converter, you remove that item and replace it with the inverter wiring it according to the instructions. If this is something you have never done before, and it seems that is the case, I STRONGLY suggest you let a professional do the job.
__________________
Mike Nancy and the fuzzies
Fulltiming since June 2004
Volvo 660 MH tow vehicle
2005 MS 38RL
2007 Saturn Ion "toad"
2010 Gold Wing "piggyback"
Motor31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:19 AM   #7
morscuba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 124
Ditto with what Mike said..
YOu need to get some professional advice..
John Palmer in Mayo Fl is one of the top guys around for solar and inverting..
http://www.palmerenergysystems.com/
__________________
2008 MS 4212 2007 Freightliner M2 MountainMaster..2012 Victory Cross Country behind the cab. 2011 Honda Fit pushing the FL and the MS
morscuba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 02:53 PM   #8
imouttahere
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: On the Road
Posts: 50
Thanks for all the good info. I'll give John P a look up.

gd
imouttahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 05:10 PM   #9
porkchop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 382
DO NOT remove your convertor. You will not have sunshine 24/365. How you going to turn your lights on when it's dark? It's really pretty simple, but a little too difficult to try and explain with out being face to rface to ask and answer questions. You're going to have a real hard time finding a solar and battery system that will allow you to run an a/c though. Seek professional help.

Bill
porkchop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 07:29 PM   #10
terry and jo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Retired Okie now in Colorado
Posts: 531
If I remember correctly, in order to use one's inverter, one has to turn off/unplug from shore power. With that in mind, I don't think that one replaces a converter with an inverter. If you were getting power only from solar panels, the inverter can be used, but not all appliances (air conditioners) can be operated by the inverter.

Then again, I'm not an electrician, so I really can't be sure.

Terry
__________________
Terry and Jo
2010 Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 #5332 - 2008 Ford F450
Terry's Smugmug Site
terry and jo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 11:58 PM   #11
BillK
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
When you order a camper with an inverter, it deletes the converter. The inverter not only changes 12 volt to 120 but has a built in battery charger which eliminates the need for the converter, Clear as mud, huh? If your RV has a converter, it is best to remove it and replace it with an inverter/charger.
BillK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 02:38 PM   #12
imouttahere
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: On the Road
Posts: 50
So I assume the generator puts out 120 ac and uses a converter to run the dc and charge the bats? Can you use an auto transfer switch between the inverter and shore power like you do between shore power and the gen.?

gd
imouttahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 02:53 PM   #13
porkchop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 382
I can assure you that an invertor will not charge your batteries, no matter how long you leave it hooked up. You can however buy a combination invertor/chargerthat will. But why? You have a perfectly working convertor that you have already paid for. Why not just leave that as is and buy a simple invertor sized for what ever device you want to run. That will be cheaper for you since you already have a battery charger bought and paid for. I do not know what you want to run, but I can tell you that if you are going to try and run a microwave or a/c system for any amount of time you will need to clean out your basement and fill it full of batteries. You can purchase an invertor in most any automotive supply store, truck stop, or big box store. It's going to get complicated and more expensive the more automatic you want it. We have a $200 generator that I start up and plug the trailer into when I have the need. Cheap and easy. But we don't boondock.

Bill
porkchop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #14
5thwheeler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 270
12 volt info

I don't usually send readers to an "off-site" location, but..........
I came across these articles a few years ago.
Written in 2002 (yes I know that's a long time ago), but "12 volt" hasn't changed that much.

Two articles - they starts at: http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
5thwheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 04:28 PM   #15
imouttahere
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: On the Road
Posts: 50
Great 12v article. Thanks.

gd
imouttahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 05:08 AM   #16
RodeWorthy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Woodstock, Ontario
Posts: 370
Inverter...converter...

Hey GD,
You have received a lot of advice here. Sorry to be late to the party but I have been through the experience of upgrading our Mobile Suites for off-grid use. We have the Xantrex RS3000 Inverter/Charger and 4 6V deep cycle batteries that were installed as an option when the trailer was built. This model has a built-in 50A transfer switch. It is no longer manufactured. Extensive modification to the low voltage wiring was necessary to make this system into the efficent power source it is today. It took a while and was expensive to get that done but I am pleased with the results. If you are interested I can explain why these modifications were necessary.

I have also installed four 135W solar panels feeding into an Outback 60 charge controller and that installation does a nice job of keeping our four Trojan T-125 batteries charged.

You can find some pictures of the installation/modification I did at:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album...MdwVi?start=24

At the end of those pictures you will find a 2-page wiring schematic that I made for my installation. Ignore page 2 but page 1 will show you the necessary hookups. Be advised I have modified the roof brackets for the solar panels since these pictures were taken. I underestimated the low sun angle in December and was getting shadows from the A/C units. I have sinced raised the panels and placed them further outboard with additional aluminum angle stock.

I retained the standard equipment 'converter' for back up purposes only. It is not wired in and you can see how that works on the schematic. The Inverter/Charger is not a throw-away item and in the event of a failure it may need to be sent away for repairs. I have made accommodation in the installation for the safe removal of the inverter and insertion of the converter to provide a means to charge batteries with the inverter removed. The solar charging system lessens that dependence but I still carry the converter.

It is my opinion that the converter provided is not ideal as the primary charging device while on shore power. The design criteria for the converter output voltage and the necessary voltage to fully charge the batteries are not matched. The converter will charge the batteries but it will not fully charge them and that is critical for extended off grid use.

We have quite a bit of experience with this system now and find on an average boondocking day we typically use 165-200AH battery capacity. On good sun days the solar system will recharge the batteries fully by early afternoon. With 480AH of capacity our consumpiton is well below the 50% maximum (240AH) that should ever be drawn from the batteries.

We can run all our equipment excluding A/C, refrigerator and water heater on electric. Microwave is no problem but used sparingly -- not our primary cooking device. The refrigerator and water heater stay on propane while not on shore power. We must be prudent with the use of power but we don't sit in the dark. Entertainment system with satellite receivers is no problem and computer is low draw too. Toaster and coffee maker in the morning finishes off our consumption before a new charging day begins. We use a battery monitor to monitor the critical details of the system. This is very important. This past winter we re-lamped most of the trailer with LEDs. I routinely lock out equipment I don't want used while off-grid by flipping the circuit breakers for them.

So that is me. Just to let you know you are getting advice from someone who has been there.

I believe the product your are using is a Singerex Pursine II 2000-12. If I have that wrong please correct me.

You can find the product information for that product at:
http://www.sinergex.com/products/puresineII_2000.html

The user manual that includes installation information is at:
http://www.sinergex.com/products/fil...usermanual.pdf

The user manual covers the whole series of the Pursine II so you will have to identify your model.

This equipment appears to be an Inverter only with no battery charger component. You will have to make a decision as to how your batteries will be charged while on shore power. You have been correctly advised the device in your trailer is not an inverter but a battery charger also known as a converter. If you are serious about boondocking you might give some thought to an inverter/charger device if you have not already obtained your equipment.

There is no problem putting two inverters in the rig but the circuits must be separated and this is a major task which requires intimate understanding of the entire system. I have considered putting in a smaller inverter to power the lower power consumption devices that we tend to use for long periods -- computer and entertainment equipment qualify for that.

Why would I do this? There is a considerable overhead in power consumption of the big inverter just having the inverter turned on. We routinely shut off the inverter during periods we do not need 110VAC.

You have been given excellent advice to consult with John Palmer and since you are in Florida this is excellent advice. I have been to John's campground and they live off-grid out there all the time. John knows his stuff and does good work. He is a no BS kind of guy and does not come cheap but novice mistakes can be expensive too not to speak of dangerous. You really need to know what you are doing before working on a powerful system like this. There is potential to kill you if you don't know what you are doing.

A really good source of information is Jack Myers RV Electrical Tutorial at:
http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm

Jack is a really good guy and was my mentor as I went through the process of installing my system. Even if you outsource this work the information Jack provides will make you an informed consumer. Pay particular attention to wire sizes -- most important. Jack discusses the optimized use of sub-panels that you were also enquiring about.

Hope this helps.
__________________

__________________
RodeWorthy

'07 Mobile Suites 36RS3 #3910
Mor/ryde IS, Trailersaver TS3 hitch
Level-Up with Remote Control
4 x 135W Solar Panels, Outback Controller, 4 x 6V batteries, Xantrex Inverter/Charger
'08 Chevy 3500 dually Duramax/Allison
RodeWorthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×