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Old 09-14-2010, 06:53 PM   #21
hitchup
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Just stumbled across this photo of a 5er in Las Vegas.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:06 PM   #22
The View 5046
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Greg I'm not familiar with Americana 5th wheels. However I'm familiar with Drv this is our second Mobile Suites. We had our 2010 Mobile Suites 38 RSSB 3 with vanity slide. Drv custom built our Suites. I know for sure Drv will go to what ever changes you want. We don't do cold weather however Drv has the most R-factor (3 1/4" walls) of any 5th wheel manufactor. Drv also has the ability to build dual heating systems (Candian build systems). As for windows Drv will remove windows we had one window removed, wish we had removed the window behind the TV, just a wasted window.

As for full timing we will probable go back to full timing in the near future. And we know for sure that our Mobile Suites is designed for full timing or extended use. I would for sure recomend Drv for full timing. Good luck with you choice. GBY......
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:21 AM   #23
berghild
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we went to our nearest dealer after researching on rv consumer group. signed up for that for about $150.00...it seemed like a lot at the time but it was really worth it.
at the nearest dealer we asked for an estimate with all the changes that we wanted and told them that we were going to shop around for other estimates. we called around, told the salesman what we wanted done and waited for replies.
the original dealer was not pleased when the best bid beat his by $11,000. Sure we had to travel from las vegas to indiana but it was worth it!
and we had them install the Louisiana cut linoleum throughout the downstairs. with a few washable throw rugs this works great for us. They insisted that they had to carpet the slide-outs and a strip for the slide to ride up on...these can get pretty messy. I have know others that have ripped out the carpet in their motorhome and installed tile and the slides work fine.
Also i have heard that DRV will have the unit sent to paul Cross down the road for pre-delivery inspection and then return it to the factory to rectify the problems, If you have it in your contract. Be sure to check the heat coming in on ALL your vents. Ours is worthless and we have closed the vents and sealed with foil.
good thing you are getting the one piece roof! Cyndy ('sorry that this is so long..I do get revved up sometimes!)
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:56 AM   #24
greg veverka
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Hats off to Keith & Penne if you look back a few posts everyone can see DRV and most associated companies are wrong, you can successfully install wood flooring even on the slides and it works just fine. I have found a company online who manufactures high end 5th wheels and uses no carpet unless requested ( odd no one ever has requested it they claim ).
Carpet and RV's do not work, the manufactures do not want to install proper flooring as it is an extra step and cuts into their profits not to mention the public orders the rigs then complains about all the cheap carpet later down the road.
I have not had carpet in my house for over 25 years, I sure would never even think about having it in an RV.
I have been in several high end motorhomes that do not have any carpet and the slides work perfect even with granite or marble floors.
The stigma is a 500k motorhome draws a certain client and 5th wheels are not in that league...well for my money an Elite Suite, Mobile Suite or New Horizon is built as good or better than all the 500k motorhomes I have been in.
When I spoke to "the factory" DRV, they said hard serface flooring could be installed but they are totally against it because the furniture will dance around when in motion. They went on to tell me all the furniture would have to be bolted to the floor!!!!!!!!!!
I informed them an 80" sofa bed with rubber installed on the bottom of the feet would not move unless you were pulling your rig down roads you should never be on in the first place.
Recliners can be placed on their sides/faces etc when the slides are in and will never move around.
Again...congratulations to Keith on a fine job, the floors look 100% better.
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:08 PM   #25
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FWIW - The discussion earlier in this thread regarding no insulation in the front end cap behind the back of the closet intrigued me so I emailed the factory to find out how DRV insulates in that location. Per the response of one of their district sales reps the framing members are 2" thick in front end cap as opposed to 3.5" in the sidewalls but they do stuff the void space with 3.5" thick insulation with a R-16 rating. Since the space is less than 3.5" I believe the R rating is actually less than R-16 as the amount of dead space also plays a role in heat transfer. But I would think the R rating would be at least 10 or more in that situation
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:15 PM   #26
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Greg and everyone,

Not to hi-jack this thread but since it has come up I wanted to jump in. For more details check out my other thread.

Since installing our Laminate, we have found that the furniture does move more than if it were on carpet. We turn our table upside down on a throw rug but the rest of the items stays as is, dining chairs and recliners. Our table is in the rear of our 36TK3, see photos on other thread. Also, I have a computer table that I leave our speakers and monitor sitting on while traveling.

I do use small sections of carpet under the ends of the dining slide and one in the middle, knap down, which lets the slide come in without touching the flooring.

Before I tore out the old carpet, I had looked everything over closely and had decided what I was going to do and how I would do it. I then called Paul Cross at Indiana Interstate Rv and ran it across him. He gave it a thumbs up and said he would love to have some want him to install it for them as he had always wanted to do one.

Greg, if you see something you want, ask your dealer or have them contact thier area rep. Some dealers do not know what the factory will do or not. Usually, if you ask, the area rep will contact DRV engineers and they will get back to you with an answer and price.

When we ordered our 05 TK3, I wanted a front opening pantry. Our dealer contacted DRV and at that time, their answer was "we have never had anyone ask for one but it is a good idea." The week before ours was delivered, our dealer advised that it was now offered as a $500 option.
Since then, the factory is working hard to comply with our buyers requests.

Good luck in whatever you decide to order.
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:23 PM   #27
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Deleted the double post. Sticky fingers??

Keith
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:09 PM   #28
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Keith,

Thank you.

You did a great job!! I have laid alot of tile and wood flooring, never in a coach but I do see an entire cottage industry out there...Opps just gave it away!
As a matter of fact every person I have spoke with who has carpet in their RV would love to have the richness/warmth and durability of a wood floor.

If someone got real creative they could run the wood in patterns, even place a contrasting border down.

Maybe setting up a shop on location with Paul Cross is the way to do it...
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:18 AM   #29
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On our visit to the factory in 05 I saw the front end cap being installed on a unit. They had to stop the process because a strip of the fiberglass insulation that was just placed on the back of the closet fell off before they could mount the end cap. There was no gluing of insulation, just lay the strip on the unit and stick the cap on so it would be held in place.

I agree with the Americana ad, the insulating factor of windows is absolutely minimal. That 1/4 inch of dead air doesn't have much insulating factor at all.
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:27 AM   #30
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Front Cap

I may of not said it right about my 09 when I took the front closet apart there was insulation in the vertical part of the closet. But under the floor which as I recall is 25 inches wide there was no insulation across the entire front. The same went for the ceiling above the closet there was no insulation.

I have not doubt that the lack of insulation in both of these areas will have a large effect on the comfort of the bed room winter and summer.

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:42 AM   #31
greg veverka
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Has anyone ever asked the factory why they use batt insulation except it is the cheapest way to go? Wonder why they do not use spray foam which is far superior or the other half dozen isulations on the market that will hold "up" in walls for the life of the rig!!!
Does anyone think the R ratings are slightly inflated...the industry is?
A few threads back someone mentioned all the glass...I have been in a few rigs that the side walls were almost all glass, my guess the R ratings must be around 5.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:11 AM   #32
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They use fiberglass because it's cheap and easy to use. It requires no special tooling to install. Just unroll some of it, cut it to fit and slap it in the wall. No one will see it again as long as the wall isn't opened up. In a horizontal installation it will settle as vibrations from road travel help shake it down making the roof less efficient as well. With only fiberglass batting in the roof they can get away with a commode room fan venting into the roof rather than to the outside. That air pressure then makes it's way to the vents placed into the roof in other locations since there is nothing to stop the circulation.

In regards to the bit about 3.5" of fiberglass in a 2.5" wall, yup compressing the fiberglass reduces the insulation capacity of the material. The insulation comes from creating "dead air" that does not move and maintains it as a barrier to transfer of heat or cold. Once you compress the fiberglass insulation you make it more like a solid and it will transfer temperatures better losing it's insulation value. Foam creates the dead air by trapping the air inside the spaces of the cells of the foam. There is a reason why ice chests, refrigerators (stick homes and RV style) have foam insulation. It lasts and is far more efficient than fiberglass. DRV knows this they just don't want to tool up for a foam wall style of construction. It cuts into the profit margin.

Want a real treat? On a hot day open one of the storage cabinets at the top of the wall and feel the temperature difference vs one at the bottom of the wall like the pantry next to the outside wall. It will really be noticeable if it's on the sun ward side of the rig. The settling down of insulation (fiberglass) will be really obvious as the insulation is still in place at the bottom but not at the top of the wall. In a foam insulated wall the stuff stays in place in the sandwich since it has structural strength by itself. The lamination process also glues it all together. In the roof it won't compress either maintaining the original R value.

Don't forget the insulation in the floor. It's all based on fiberglass laying on the corrugated bottom liner under the trailer. Lots and lots of open air between the flooring of the trailer and the fiberglass on an unsealed corrugated surface. Plenty of room for air to move around and that circulation is how they keep the plumbing and tanks from freezing. Using your furnace to warm the bottom of the rig under the living area.

Speaking of R value, who did the analysis of the R value for DRV? Was it an outside lab checking a complete wall with windows or a guestimate based on a wall with no openings? Their brochure didn't say on our rig.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:06 AM   #33
greg veverka
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Motor31,

I know this is an open fourm for DRV owners but you are well educated in many fields and the information is priceless.

As all of you know my wife and I are selling our home to full time in an RV so I have the time to investigate all manufactures before I place my order. Our buget is up to $150,000.00 so this gives us some room with 5th wheels.

Being an audiophile I know a few things about insulation since I have built several sound studios in my homes. Bottom line, insulation done properly is actually inexpensive.

At this point after a few weeks of reading all of the posts about DRV I will not be placing an order with them. In my earlier posts I have said I feel they make a fine product, well insulated using some fine products but this evaluation is based on the entire industry, all 5th wheel manufactures.

I just spoke to Space Craft MFG, they build a totally custom 5th wheel to the clients specifications and when I compared apples to apples an ES to their product they come out way ahead for less $$$$.

A huge red flag went up when I read that in the sales contract you need to have written in that Paul Cross complete a PDI...before you take delivery!!!
This information only means one thing, no quality control.

I even contacted Russ at Americana and his company was willing to give me all the names and numbers of thier owners so I could contact them and just see how many problems they have had.

Sure nothing is perfect, I am not looking for a perfect rig but passing off the quality control to the customer to police the factory with Paul Cross as the watch dog is not good business. Also at this point I am not in any way saying if a product DRV has insatalled goes bad it is DRV's fault, no, I am only speaking about what is in DRV's control.

I am also shocked to read so many DRV owners would buy another one, I can understand many of them may have experienced little problems but like one gentleman said, " my 09 is no where near as good as my 06" . clue...

Maybe the best lesson is to keep the auto industry in mind, remember how they just kept building cheaper and cheaper products because the American public was lead by the nose to buy American...well we all know the rest of the story on that one.

Maybe they monitor this fourm......
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:37 PM   #34
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I'll not buy another one. Stuffing ac window stripping under slide outs, cold air coming thru windows. Slide outs cold in winter and warm in summer, etc.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:47 PM   #35
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I think when DRV first began, they had all the right ideas and really tried to make one of the best products available for a reasonable price. As time has progressed, they have followed the same route as allot of companies and are making allot of decisions based on profit above all else. I have seen so many things on DRV rigs just get cheaper and cheaper while the price continues to rise. They are also beginning to follow the notion that their product is so well constructed that they do not need to improve on anything beyond amenities. Sure hope they turn things around soon or they will go the way of some others that thought they were on top!
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:53 PM   #36
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Likely, for every one of us who participates on this forum, to cuss and discuss the quality and build issues with DRV, and to share our experiences, both positive and negative, and who would look at a different unit when time comes to replace the DRV product....there are probably 5 newbe buyers to take our place, who haven't yet discovered this great resource. Like others, I wish I would have found this forum prior to placing our money on the table...we may have made the same decision, but we sure would have been better informed.

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Old 09-17-2010, 10:24 PM   #37
greg veverka
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Based on my conversation with Space Craft I think at this point they may get my order soon. I would suggest to anyone thinking of buying a new rig to call Space Craft, Wyatt and talk to him.

I totally agree if you just look at the numbers DRV will continue to do well as many people will continue to impulse buy.

One thing I never did metion in this entire process, I really like dealing factory direct, I can build my 5th. wheel my way with better products for less money just cutting out the dealer. Sort of like real estate most people just have to work with a realtor, they are afraid to negotiate their own deal ( no offense to any realtors )

Space Craft just as an added bonus uses tankless water sysyems, real bath tubs, no batt insulation, your choice of flooring and they build 20 trailers per year..all slow, correct the right way the first time.

Pride is alive in America, you just have to look a little deeper...
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:42 AM   #38
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While I haven't researched Space Craft much at all, I do remember a few posts on RV forums in the last couple of years that say they are very heavy. If I remember correctly, more so than even an Elite Suites.

Terry
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:40 AM   #39
greg veverka
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Space Craft MFG is a total custom build so it would comparing apples to oranges as far as weight, it all would depend on what you put in the rig.
I do know they have a superior frame!!!
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Old 09-18-2010, 03:52 PM   #40
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Glad you seem to have made your decision Greg. I'll tell you I visited both the New Horizion factory and Space Craft,, not to long ago..I think I was a bit more impressed with the New Horizion's. You remind me of a young fella at Space Craft that was in the marketing Dept..You ought to ask them for a job..Your a great salesman..Anyway happy travels..and good luck with your choice.
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