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Old 10-13-2015, 11:00 PM   #1
JimGnitecki
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How many problems should I expect?

I am going out tomorrow to examine in detail a new DRV Tradition at a local dealership before possibly buying it. I need to know what to expect.

I have owned 3 prior RVs that we fulltimed in briefly: a new 2000 National Tradewinds Diesel pusher that we part-timed in for a year, and fulltimed in for about 5 months, a nice but old (1978 converted in mid 1990s that we bought in 2009) Eagle bus conversion that we fulltimed in for a year, and a barely used 2011 Heartland 27 foot "vacation type travel trailer" that we ended up fulltiming in for over a year despite its limited quality and size.

We felt that the Tradewinds was pretty reliable except for a circuit board failure in the RV refrigerator, and the annoying habit of the ECM to go nuts once in a while, sometimes while doing 60 mph, and having to stop and shut off the ignition to "cure" the computer problem (not kidding). We felt the bus conversion was an unreliable money pit - (never did get one of the 2 basement AC units to work, hot water heat system sprung a leak and spewed glycol into the bathroom vanity cabinet, water lines froze when the temperature dropped even a BIT below 32, etc). The Heartland's biggest issues were a rainwater wall leak that we never actually fully fixed, a cheap kitchen water faucets that didn't last long, a furnace that failed one cold day but whose repair was not very costly, and a cheap toilet whose pedal kept breaking until we replaced the darn thing with a $250 Sealand.

We have been thinking about getting back into fulltime RVing, but have a limited tolerance for "problems". To illustrate our tolerance level:
- We look back on the Tradewinds diesel pusher as mostly fine
- The bus conversion we would never want to repeat - too many complex "luxury" systems with inadequately robust components - failures waiting to happen
- The Heartland we felt was overall "excusable" because it was an inexpensive trailer used by us in a fulltiming capacity it was never designed for, and our memories of it are actually pretty pleasant.

I am reasonably analytical and mechanical (I am a degreed mechanical engineer by education and have modified cars and motorcycles). We don't mind problems that can be repaired quickly and inexpensively. We don't want problems though that are hard to diagnose, costly to fix, and, worst of all, structural in nature and overwhelming in cost. We simply can't afford to fund another money pit like that bus.

We also can't handle numerous trips back to the selling dealer, because for the first couple of years, we don't plan on buying a tow vehicle because we can't use one yet (I am retired, but my wife can't retire yet), and we proactively plan to just keep the RV in a nice RV resort until such time as it becomes possible for us to travel. THEN we get a tow vehicle. This means we favor an RV brand that authorizes mobile RV repair services to do warranty work. My Googling of DRV warranty practices seems to show that DRV is cool with authorizing warranty work by properly qualified mobile RV technicians.

That apparent acceptance of mobile warranty work, coupled with the DRV reputation as being one of the highest quality RV production (not custom) manufacturers, is what is pulling us towards this DRV purchase.

What should I expect to encounter if I buy this brand new DRV Tradition?

Is the RV world still an unregulated wild west where some units come from the factory fine while others seem cursed, or have things improved over the years? (I have a friend who bought a brand new top model Winnebago motorhome, and in the course of a decade of ownership of it, never actually got even ONE cross-country trip without something breaking enroute! . Winnebago kept fixing it for him, but it never achieved "reliability")

How many problems should I expect to encounter in the brand new RV? (Hopefully not the 30 to 40 that Heartland apparently now tells customers is typical for their highend Landmark 5th wheels)

What are my chances of getting a problem, like say a serious water system leak, or a roof that leaks, that could cause major damage if not detected instantly? I am asking because a couple I know with a 1-1/2 year old Landmark needed a new roof, including new plywood, at 5 months, have had multiple slide issues, and now appear to have a structural problem of some sort on their entire driver side wall that apparently will require replacing the entire wall. That couple has spent many weeks in hotels instead of in their RV while warranty repairs are attempted and run overtime, and they simply can't afford to keep doing so.

On a less traumatic scale, should I be bracing for lots of surprise problems and work on my part to get them repaired under warranty in a reasonable time period, or is DRV quality these days better than that? Again, I am asking because on various forums, with different brands, I read about refrigerator icemaker water line connections that leak from the factory, hydraulic leaks that foul the basement with hydraulic fluid, slide systems that fail repeatedly and get "fixed" with the same inadequate replacement parts, TV antenna wiring that got damaged during the build "somewhere" within the coach, and even one water tank that simply fell off the coach when it got somewhere close to full, because it had never been properly fastened to and supported in the chassis!

So, what should I expect if I buy the DRV Tradition? Is it likely to be a mostly pleasant experience like the 2000 National Tradewinds pusher, a reasonably happy mix of happiness and some minor problems like we had on the Heartland travel trailer, or a stressful struggle like we endured on the bus conversion that sort of exhausted us?

Jim G
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:22 AM   #2
wingnut60
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It is too bad that the SOITC website seems to be still down--a majority of the newer owners posted about their units there.

Be aware that DRV is now owned by Heartland/Thor....

As far a major problems, I seem to hear about those with just about EVERY brand now and again--seems the industry is still in the "Don't buy a unit made on Monday or Friday"--except that DRV units take much longer than a day to make.

I would get any agreement to have the unit serviced by a "properly qualified mobile technician" in writing from both DRV AND the selling dealer. The PDI is also a very important part of the sale--strictly dependent on the integrity of the selling dealer.

Rolling Retreats and RVs4Less seem to get good reports on the quality of the PDI that they do for the DRV units.

Have you considered a Mobile Suites instead of a Tradition? Have you looked at both yet? Recommend that you do that before purchase...

Let us know how it goes...

ON EDIT: I have assumed that you were looking at new--is the Tradition a used unit?

Joe
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:50 AM   #3
terry and jo
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First of all, consider where you will be staying for a time before buying a tow vehicle and actually traveling with the RV. I'm not sure the Tradition has the same insurance package that the Elite and Mobile Suites models have. We have a 2010 Mobile Suites and have been comfortable in temperatures ranging from up to 115 degrees and down to -6 degrees. The one issue we have had is that at about 0 degrees, the hot water line from the water manifold to the kitchen sink freezes up. It is only the hot water line, and we've never detected a leak, so I'm presuming that the PEX lines are why they don't.

As for structural problems, I've not heard of a lot of problems there, but then, mostly what are discussed here and at SOITC are for the Elite and Mobile Suite models and not the Tradition. Incidentally, while SOITC's website is operational, the search function there is not picking up posts that were made prior to the forum software upgrade. Their website:

SOITC (Suites Owners International Travel Club)

And Joe is right in that problems occur all across the RV spectrum of brands. Keep in mind that forums tend to attract people who are looking for the solution to a problem, so it tends to look like "brand x" has a lot of problems. However, the number of participants on the forums are very minimal compared to the number of owners of that (or any other) brand.

If you'd consider a used Mobile Suites (better insulation and frame), check out Rolling Retreats. They generally have a selection of good used ones and Joe is right that they have a good reputation for their PDI.

Rolling Retreats

Terry
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:59 AM   #4
JimGnitecki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut60 View Post
It is too bad that the SOITC website seems to be still down--a majority of the newer owners posted about their units there.

Be aware that DRV is now owned by Heartland/Thor....

As far a major problems, I seem to hear about those with just about EVERY brand now and again--seems the industry is still in the "Don't buy a unit made on Monday or Friday"--except that DRV units take much longer than a day to make.

I would get any agreement to have the unit serviced by a "properly qualified mobile technician" in writing from both DRV AND the selling dealer. The PDI is also a very important part of the sale--strictly dependent on the integrity of the selling dealer.

Rolling Retreats and RVs4Less seem to get good reports on the quality of the PDI that they do for the DRV units.

Have you considered a Mobile Suites instead of a Tradition? Have you looked at both yet? Recommend that you do that before purchase...

Let us know how it goes...

ON EDIT: I have assumed that you were looking at new--is the Tradition a used unit?

Joe
Joe: The Tradition is a new unit. We cannot afford the more costly models (Elite Suites, Mobile Suites, etc) without tapping into the 401k, and that would bring on a triple whammy tax penalty since my wife is still working (the tax on the withdrawal, the resulting increased tax rate on her income, and the application of the increased marginal tax rate to an INCREASED portion of my Social Security!!! Check the tax rules that apply to taxation of Social Security!).

The only reason we can really afford the Tradition is that the Tradition units are being unusually aggressively discounted right now as DRV apparently is phasing them out.

We cannot fulltime travel yet, as my "trophy" wife is 6 years younger than me, and so cannot get Medicare yet, so she needs to keep her job for a while longer. Because we plan to leave this area after she retires, we don't want to buy a home, and both home and apartment rents are ridiculously high here right now due to an influx of people due to a strong local economy. Fulltiming living in one of a couple of good local RV resorts makes economic sense as well as being more fun and (hopefully) lower maintenance because no lawncare, etc! Plus, the interior of a DRV is way, way nicer than any home or apartment we could afford or justify.

All these factors make the Tradition a sensible economic choice.

I have examined the specs of the Tradition versus the other model lines, and we find them fine for us. We have also been inside used examples of the other models recently and can therefore compare what we see today or tomorrow in the Tradition model to those.

Jim G
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:34 AM   #5
JimGnitecki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry and jo View Post
First of all, consider where you will be staying for a time before buying a tow vehicle and actually traveling with the RV. I'm not sure the Tradition has the same insurance package that the Elite and Mobile Suites models have. We have a 2010 Mobile Suites and have been comfortable in temperatures ranging from up to 115 degrees and down to -6 degrees. The one issue we have had is that at about 0 degrees, the hot water line from the water manifold to the kitchen sink freezes up. It is only the hot water line, and we've never detected a leak, so I'm presuming that the PEX lines are why they don't.

As for structural problems, I've not heard of a lot of problems there, but then, mostly what are discussed here and at SOITC are for the Elite and Mobile Suite models and not the Tradition. Incidentally, while SOITC's website is operational, the search function there is not picking up posts that were made prior to the forum software upgrade. Their website:

SOITC (Suites Owners International Travel Club)

And Joe is right in that problems occur all across the RV spectrum of brands. Keep in mind that forums tend to attract people who are looking for the solution to a problem, so it tends to look like "brand x" has a lot of problems. However, the number of participants on the forums are very minimal compared to the number of owners of that (or any other) brand.

If you'd consider a used Mobile Suites (better insulation and frame), check out Rolling Retreats. They generally have a selection of good used ones and Joe is right that they have a good reputation for their PDI.

Rolling Retreats

Terry
Terry: Thanks for the inputs! I have seen that you are a regular and informed contributor here, and in fact I downloaded your PDI checklist to use, so I particularly appreciate your input!

We are located in Austin, Texas, where the winter nightly lows are typically in the mid to high 30s, with only a handful of light freeze events per year. Plus, once my wife retires, we will make it a point to NEVER stay where the temperature can drop far enough to be a threat to our RV or uncomfortable for us! We plan to move only a handful of times per year, but to plan the moves based on climate! So, the somewhat lower R factors of the Tradition are not a problem for us - they are still WAY better than any of the prior 3 RVs we have owned! Plus, the Tradition we are looking at has the optional heated tank strips as well as the furnace-blown heat to the tank area, and has dual pane windows.

I looked at the Rolling Retreats website at their used models, but did not see anything that excited us, right at this time at least.

We would love the DRV "toyhauler" version, as we have a Harley that I really love to ride, but they start around $145k or $165k MSRP (we have seen conflicting info) which means a new actual selling price in six figures, and it hard for us to afford, and justify, that level of cost. I don't see any used ones yet.

There is an older version of the toyhauler (around 2012 model year?), but its low sales volume at the time limits its availability, and it had a very strange "movable garage wall" setup unlike the far more convenient current setup that has a glass sliding door between the garage and living area. With the old setup, there is no way of going from the living quarters to the garage without going outside and lowering the ramp!! And, the moving wall means you can't have anything "permanently stored" anywhere in the pathway of the wall!

Jim G
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:06 PM   #6
Camr
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Hello Jim, Great choice in your consideration of the Tradition. DRV is most certainly one of the better manufacturers. My wife and myself visited almost every manufacturer in the Elkhart, Goshen, Shipshawana area when our previous brand 5th was at the factory for a week for warranty work. DRV was the only plant that offered a tour while the factory was in operation, and was the factory tour that we were most impressed with.
As for what to expect with a new unit, a little bit of everything. We have never had a new coach from any manufacturer that didn't have a water leak of some degree. The new Dometic AC units are made so poorly that it is common on forums to read about AC replacement. Our last coach had Carrier units which lasted for more than 4 years, our Dometic on our new DRV lasted 4 months. There will likely be many small items like drawers that don't close evenly, blinds that go up too slowly, but if you take the small things too seriously you will go crazy.
Here's my suggestions. Firstly, make arrangements to stay 2 nights in your new unit on the dealers lot before leaving. Check EVERYWHERE for water leaks, under sinks, in the basement, tank drain valves, under the coach, everywhere! Sticky drawers are an inconvenience, water leaks must be fixed immediately. Check all electronics, TV, radio, antenna, etc. The Mobile Suites have a very complex audio/video ststem, I am not sure about the Tradition. Check tire pressures and wheel nut torque before leaving the dealership.
Secondly, learn how to fix or adjust as many items and systems as you are capable of. Sooner or later, after the warranty has expired, you will have to track down a water drip, or fix a drawer. The more you can do yourself, the less frustrated you will be "down the road".
If your dealer is too large or too busy to allow you to stay a couple of days in your new coach, try another dealer. Your new coach will be far from perfect, but DRV has an excellent reputation of looking after customers who are reasonable, patient and respectful.
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:44 PM   #7
JimGnitecki
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Thanks, CAMR. I appreciate the good, experienced advice.

Jim G
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:43 AM   #8
golf_bears
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We bought our unit new in 2008. To this day DRV has bent over backwards to help us with little issues. Just this past May we were in MI visiting our daughter. On our way back to WI we decided to go to the Flee Market in Shipshewana. Decide while we were there to stop in and visit with Kyle Miller and take another tour. We're looking at selling our unit and getting a new DRV unit. I needed a few cupboard door latches, the male portion only. Ask and got a few no questions ask and no charge. The point being, DRV takes good care of its customers for a long time. You won't go wrong with buying a DRV unit.
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