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Old 09-27-2018, 03:36 PM   #1
Alpo
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Towing Limitations and Trailer Selection

I upgraded to a 2014 Ram 2500 Cummins and am looking for a compatible 5th Wheel. It appears the most limiting factor associated with my Truck is the Payload Limit. While the total GCWR is 25K allowing for 17010lbs of Additional weight the Payload is only 2180lbs (in my case 1950lbs according to the Door Jam Sticker). That being said I find myself limited to what they call Half Ton Campers, and even then it’s close to that limit. Various guidelines have me subtract any weight associated with Cargo and Passengers in the Truck. Without loading up the truck and going to scales I assume it’s not a Pound for Pound subtraction, due to the distribution of that weight (front seat passenger weight is clearly more placed on the front axle, rear seat less so but still split maybe 50/50). Obviously the Hitch is 100% being squarely on the Rear axle. Does the Lomit assume a full tank of gas/diesel, or does that also reduce allowances? Unlike others I see out there I am trying to stay within recommended allowances. Right now I am looking at a Forest River 8529RLWS. Is there any spiritual advice out there from other 5th Wheel towers having dealt with this in their endeavors?
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Old 09-27-2018, 04:04 PM   #2
Notanlines
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"the Payload is only 2180lbs (in my case 1950lbs according to the Door Jam Sticker)." I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that is for the front AND rear total. When you put an 80 pound dog in the front seat with you then that 80 pounds is subtracted from the 1950. If anyone (like an RV salesman or Dodge salesman) tells you differently they are simply wrong.
There are a couple of "told for truth" ways that your door sticker is configured. One says that it is including a 150 pound driver and a full tank of fuel. Of course the other says it is dead empty with no passengers/drivers and no fuel. You can take your choice, but either way you have very, very little leeway.
Again, I'm sorry. I wish I had better news. But kudos to you for wanting to be informed.
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Old 09-27-2018, 07:23 PM   #3
Alpo
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That is new to me. I had thought (and most of the forum chatter supported) the Payload limitation was based on the Rear Axle build. It seem well discussed that the reason for Rams Lower limitations was the Coil Springs and Most people have discussed Air Bags (which are limited to the rear axle) as a way to improve the limit. Live and learn I guess. The Trailer I am looking at is several hundred pounds less that the limit and me and my wife are the only expected passengers in the Truck - that being said I’ll work the numbers accordingly.
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Old 09-27-2018, 08:00 PM   #4
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Alpo, if I may make a suggestion to you, I'd like to have you register on another site also run by the same organization as this one.
http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/index.php
5thwheelforums.com (the site we are on right now) is more or less an upstart forum with a limited number of members. You could count the active members without taking off your shoes. The Keystone forum might be more oriented towards that brand, but in general it covers RV'ing from a standpoint of more than a hundred active members whereas this site has about eight.
So far you have not been given correct information and the members on the other site will get you back to where you need to be to make a better decision.
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Old 09-27-2018, 08:50 PM   #5
Alpo
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Is the stated Hitch Weights by the Trailer Manufacturers with the Trailer Fully Loaded or Empty? The limit of my truck is 1960# (2014 Ram 2500 Diesel, Door Jam Sticker) and the Trailer Hitch Weight is 1290#(8529RLS Flagstaff). The Trailer UVW is 8584# and the CCC is 1506# (doesn’t give GVW but I assume it those so numbers combined). Using those numbers I have roughly 700# to play with. Does this seem right?
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:51 PM   #6
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Stated hitch weights by the mfg are usually very optimistic as to what the trailer weighs as you will use it.
What is the GVWR of the trailer? UVW + CCC is usually the GVWR, in this case about 10600. Generally, the pin weight (weight of the trailer on the truck) is around 20% of the GVWR--again, in this case, about 2120. So, if you load the trailer to max rating, you will put somewhere around 2100# on the rear axle. With a payload of 1950, you are going to be over on the payload and probably the rear axle also.
Tough to pull a lot of fiver with a 2500 truck and be withing max numbers.
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Old 09-30-2018, 08:34 PM   #7
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Here are some more points of interest.

First your 1950 lbs does not officially change when you ad air bags or Sumo Springs, etc. They do increase load carrying, but you are over the official spec limit.


Along with your cargo limit it should list somewhere your axle limits. This is important.
My front axle weight didn't change on the CAT scale with the trailer connected. Stay well under these limits. They are more important than the cargo limit.



The hitch weight on the sticker of the trailer is as it left the factory empty. An example would be my trailer which lists a pin weight of 1375 lbs. When I weighed it on the CAT scale it was around 1800 lbs. Expect the actual weight to be about 20% more than what is listed on the sticker.


I remember someone on this or the Keystone forum who weighed rv's for years saying all the 3/4 ton trucks he weighed were over their limits. I know my own truck is right on the limit and maybe up to a couple hundred lbs over depending on how we load it.
I'm not to worried about that since I'm well below my axle weights and most of the limits for 3/4 ton trucks are on the conservative side.
So just a few more things for you to think about. Tough decision...good luck.
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Old 10-01-2018, 06:14 PM   #8
Alpo
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I watched a suggested video and have read all the feedback I have received. My next step I guess will be going to a Scale with the Truck loaded up gas and all (except for the Hitch, I can get that weight easy enough and it is solely associated with the Rear Axel). From multiple sources it appears the Max Cargo/Pin Weight is only a manufacturing guideline (a fudgery as they assume certain factors), the more Legal DOT limitations are associated with the GVWR, GAWR, and GCWR weights. Having the actual “weighted up” number for the Truck (total as well as by axel) with an estimated Hitch Weight I will have a pretty good idea of 5th Wheel Trailer limitations. I know where there is a CAT Scale, does anyone know how much they charge to Weigh a truck I could not find hat information on he Web. Now I have to take on the daunting task of removing the ARE Cap on the back, pretty heavy for a retired guy and his wife (but we have done it).
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Old 10-01-2018, 06:23 PM   #9
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"5thwheelforums.com (the site we are on right now) is more or less an upstart forum"...

I beg to differ, this "upstart forum" has been around for a long time, while it may not have as many members as other forums, it is still full of valuable information from long time, experienced members.

"Most people have discussed Air Bags (which are limited to the rear axle) as a way to improve the limit." Air bags do one thing only, they level the truck to counteract squatting from overloading.

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Old 10-01-2018, 08:07 PM   #10
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The pin weight suggested by the manufacturer is usually pretty light. You need to look at the GRAWR, as the rear axle supports most of the weight. Very few of us are set so that the front axle weight is increased when the 5er is hooked up. Load up your truck with fuel, passengers, dog, tools, and whatever else will be in it when traveling and have it weighed by the individual axles. This will give you a good estimation of what the pin weight the truck can tolerate. The trailer factory weights may not include propane and water, so you need to be sure what is included to help make your decision. 20 to 25& over the empty weight on the pin is not unusual.
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