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06-06-2008, 08:00 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 73
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Autofromers
Thoes of you that use an autoformer on your electrical system, do you you also have a surge protector ahead of it, or is it necessary? Will the autoformer protect your system from high voltage spilkes?
Just trying to get some first hand information so that I can purchase what I need, and not what some sales person says that I need.
Thanks for you input.
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1997 U320 Foretravel 40ft
Ron & Donna
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06-07-2008, 05:51 PM
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#2
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 15
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I have had the 50 amp one for 8 years and have been very pleased with it. I would recommend the the 50 amp vs the 30 even if the rig you have today is 30 amp because you might by a new rig with 50 amp. I have provided a link to an installation article that discusses the surge factor. I don't use one.
http://www.geocities.com/genieyorks/autoformer
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07 MS 36TK3
08 F350 DRW
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06-09-2008, 05:33 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 482
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Quote Red Ram: "Just trying to get some first hand information so that I can purchase what I need, and not what some sales person says that I need.
.................................................. ..................................................
Not sure where you are in the purchase of either unit. I looked at the autoformers, and decided a "top-of-the-line" surge protector (SP) would be a better investment for me. Some of these can do so much more than just "surge protect". For FYI, here are the detailed features of what my surge protector does, and also a web link to where I bought mine.
One of the features I particularly like is that the scrolling display shows the amp draw on each of the incoming power "legs" - can really be helpful at times.
The Smart RV Surge Protector 50 AMP
EMS-PT50C
Features:
High low voltage protection: Whenever source power fall below 104 Volts, or rise above 132 volts the EMS automatically shuts down power to the RV. Once the AC source rises above 104-volts, or below the 132-volt level the time delay indicator flashes for the preset time and then automatically restores power to RV.
Time delay for A/C Compressor: Whenever source power is interrupted by the source or the EMS, due to a fault condition the built in time delay is activated, for 136 seconds.
4-Mode surge protection: This feature provides full surge protection L-N, L-N, L-G, L-G, L-L and N-G. Joule rating is 3560, response time of <1 nano second.
Surge Indicator: If ever a power surge damages the surge protector circuit within the EMS L-N, or L-G Digital display error code will read E-10. This is your indication that it needs to be replaced.
Reverse polarity protection: If source is a reverse polarity condition, the EMS will not allow power to the RV and the error code will read E1.
Open neutral protection: If the source has an open neutral condition the display will not light, and will not allow power to the RV.
Open ground protection: If source power has an open ground condition the EMS will read an error code of E2 and will not allow power to the RV.
AC Frequency Protection: If source power frequency deviants +/- 9 hertz from 60 cycles per second the EMS will shut down source power, and indicate an E7 or E8 error code on the digital display.
Accidental 240V protection: If 240 volts is detected when plugging into source power the EMS will not allow power to the RV. If this condition occurs while power is applied to the RV, the EMS shuts off power instantly. The display will read the voltage, and the appropriate error code.
Integrated information panel: Scrolls continuously all of the power source information, voltage, current, frequency, error codes, and previous errors. Each reading is displayed for 2 seconds
Previous error code: This feature tells the user why the EMS previously interrupted to the RV. This is only displayed if an error actually occurs and goes away when power is disconnected.
Weather resistant: Can be exposed to elements, may not be submerged.
Microprocessor controlled: The computer, is driven by state of the art microprocessors that are programmed with software to drive the entire EMS.
Built in Lock Bracket: Allows the user to secure to power source to prevent theft.
Link - http://www.rvpartscenter.com/prodsel...ID=172&CID=245
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Robert
Robert and Carlene
2005 RE3, S/N 2107 (sold Jan. 2010)
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06-10-2008, 02:18 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Palestine, Indiana
Posts: 133
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Red Ram, i use a Hardwired Surge Protector fro Progressive Industries. It has quite a lot of good features (See Below).
It has helped save my electronics at lease twice due to no neutral on the power post and lightning surges. A fellow rver lost his TV next to my trailer and my surge protector shut down before any damage could be done.
Web Address for The unit I installed http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw50c.htm
Good Luck
Voltage Protection:
Whenever source power falls below 104 Volts, or rises above 132 volts, the EMS automatically shuts down power to the RV. Once the AC source rises above 104-volts, or below the 132-volt level, the time delay indicator flashes for the preset time and then automatically restores power to RV.
Time Delay for A/C Compressor:
Whenever source power is interrupted by the source or the EMS due to a fault condition, the built in time delay is activated. There are two settings on the EMS; one is 136 seconds, and the other is 15 seconds. Consult you Air Conditioner manual to see if it has a time delay built in. If yes, use the 15-second delay. If no, use the 136-second delay.
Five(5)-Mode Surge Protection:
This feature provides full surge protection: L-N, L-N, L-G, L-G, and N-G. Total Joule rating is 3560, response time
of <1 nano second.
Surge Indicator:
If ever a power surge damages the surge protector circuit within the EMS L-N, or L-G, the digital display error code will read E-10. This is your indication that it needs to be replaced.
Reverse Polarity Protection:
If source power is a reverse polarity condition, the EMS will not allow power to the RV and the error code will read E1.
Open Neutral Protection:
If the source has an open neutral condition the display will not appear, and will not allow power to the RV.
Open Ground Protection:
If source power has an open ground condition, the EMS will read an error code of E2 and will not allow power to the RV.
AC Frequency Protection:
If source power frequency deviates by (+/-) 9 hertz from 60 cycles per second, the EMS will shut down source power, and indicate an E7 or E8 error code on the digital display.
Accidental 220V Protection:
If 220 volts is detected when plugging into source power the EMS will not allow power to the RV. If this condition occurs while power is applied to the RV, the EMS shuts off power instantly. In either case the display will read the voltage and E3 or E5 will be displayed depending on the error code.
Remote Display:
Scrolls continuously through all of the power source information: voltage, current, frequency, error codes, and previous errors. Each reading is displayed for 2 seconds.
Previous Error Code:
This feature tells the user why the EMS previously interrupted power to the RV. This is only displayed if an error actually occurs, and resets when power is disconnected to the EMS.
Bypass Switch:
This switch is located on the remote panel, and allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing source power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS.
Modular Design:
Replacement parts are designed for simple plug and play, making repairs extremely user friendly.
Microprocessor Controlled:
The computer and remote display are driven by state of the art microprocessors that are programmed with software to drive the entire EMS. Should ever this software be changed, EMS owners can receive a free upgrade processor with the return of the old.
__________________
Randy, Eileen and Maggie(Beagle)
2007 Select Suites TK3 #3117
2006 Ford F-350, CC, SWD
Pullright Sliding Hitch,LCD Mounted in Storage Door
Trailair Auto Level Up with Remote
Lippert Under Chassis Storage
Pressure Pro, Garmin 660
Winegard Direct TV Travler Sat. Dish
Rearview Camera, Water Softner
New Palestine, Indiana :)
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06-10-2008, 07:41 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bouse, Az./Franklin,Pa.
Posts: 252
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I have a 50 amp autoformer that I use when the voltage is low, but have never used a surge protecter.
Maybe I'm lucky, I don't know, but I've never had any problems blowing anything from a surge. Least yet..
And after over 10 years and four RVs I have never had an air conditioner quit or any other electrical motor problems. But I sure have read about a heck of alot of other people with problems.
Have been fulltiming for two years.(part timed for two before that)
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Huck & Dodie
2005 RE3 MS #2163
2006 F-350 CC 4X4
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06-10-2008, 11:44 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 73
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Thanks for the input. I have been reading about the EMS system and am leaning more in that direction.
I had a voltage spike while I was parked in my driveway. It tripped the 30 amp breaker from the house. I was running one AC unit and watching TV at the time. None of the breakers in the trailer tripped. The strange thing that did happen was the 300 amp inline fuse in the 12 volt system blew out.
This fuse is inline to the Xantrex RS3000. I checked the 12 volt line going into the RS3000 and it read direct short to ground. I took it to my dealer to be checked out, suprise they say there is nothing wrong with the RS3000 and they installed another inline fuse and charged me for 1-1/2 hours of labor.
Works fine now but I wish I knew why I got a ground reading and they were not able to duplicate it.
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1997 U320 Foretravel 40ft
Ron & Donna
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06-17-2008, 09:25 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Always on the Road
Posts: 558
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I had a Auto former that shorted out and put 220V thou all my electronics.
Worse then when I was hit by lightning. I would never have another, take my chances with the parks system and never had any problems.
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06-18-2008, 03:35 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 527
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I'm thinking about getting a surge protector. Since 50 amp hookups are not available everywhere would I need a 50 & a 30 amp one or would a 50 amp one cover both?
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Happy Trails To You
Tom & Cheryl Brockman S.O.I.T.C. Charter Member
2015 39DBRS3, Truma water heater, 2inch lift, custom paint
2011 RAM Cummins 3500 Dually
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06-18-2008, 07:24 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Palestine, Indiana
Posts: 133
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Tom, The surge Protector that I purchased works on 30 or 50. I would think that the portable ones that plug in to the pedistal also would work on 30 or 50.
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Randy, Eileen and Maggie(Beagle)
2007 Select Suites TK3 #3117
2006 Ford F-350, CC, SWD
Pullright Sliding Hitch,LCD Mounted in Storage Door
Trailair Auto Level Up with Remote
Lippert Under Chassis Storage
Pressure Pro, Garmin 660
Winegard Direct TV Travler Sat. Dish
Rearview Camera, Water Softner
New Palestine, Indiana :)
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06-18-2008, 07:25 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bouse, Az./Franklin,Pa.
Posts: 252
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You can use a 50 amp one with an adapter on 30 amp service.
This what I do at parks with 30 amp service. You realy need an autoformer when there is no 50 amp service available.
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Huck & Dodie
2005 RE3 MS #2163
2006 F-350 CC 4X4
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06-18-2008, 07:30 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 857
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Tom,
If you hard wire one in the panel area inside the front cupboard (easy to do) then 50 amp unit will do the job, no matter what you plug into. Buying 2 portable ones is not very cost effective. I guess you could use a portable 50 amp one with a 50-30 adapter.
We have a 50amp hard wire unit from CW and it has earned its pay more than a few times. This weekend we had very low voltage 100-105 V and it kept tripping. Everyone else was OK. I put a meter on a few sites and they all had 125V. Turned out a wire on the our post CB was very loose and arcing. Quick fix, but only found by the unit. No one else complained on this site. And the CG didn't believe me till I showed the the voltage readings.
Bill
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06-18-2008, 07:56 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Palestine, Indiana
Posts: 133
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Tom, I installed the Surge Protector in a cupboard next to the fuse panel. I also installed the Remote readout above the awning opener. Pretty handy to identify the power that is coming into the trailer.
__________________
Randy, Eileen and Maggie(Beagle)
2007 Select Suites TK3 #3117
2006 Ford F-350, CC, SWD
Pullright Sliding Hitch,LCD Mounted in Storage Door
Trailair Auto Level Up with Remote
Lippert Under Chassis Storage
Pressure Pro, Garmin 660
Winegard Direct TV Travler Sat. Dish
Rearview Camera, Water Softner
New Palestine, Indiana :)
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06-23-2008, 12:11 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 24
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I also installed a Progressive Dynamics unit in mine. I am on decent shore power most of the time but I wanted to protect my custom entertainment center and all my computer stuff. I love the remote voltage reading on each leg of the 50 amp service. I was worried about running a 220v dryer, washer and AC units along with the entertainment center. So far the unit that was sent had a bad board in it and they over nighted out a new board and have been great to deal with. I just love the fact I can see how many volts and amps on each leg. Would buy one of those again no question.
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2005 DT, MS 36CK3 #1566, 95 F-350, Full Timer
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