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Rockyhud
01-05-2018, 12:58 PM
Today I got on the Lippert website and used their Chat feature to inquire about motorcycle fork oil use in their hydraulic systems, and particularly if this would have any beneficial effect toward resolving the issue with our RV's front landing gear slowly dropping while the RV is in tow and moving. The tech, named Matthew, said it wouldn't help with that problem. I went on to tell him about advice to run the landing gear manually up and down with no weight on them and on the final retract to hold the UP button a little longer to pressurize the ram to hold it in place. He said this likely causes the internal seal lip(s) to flip back in the "right spot" and hold the ram up OK, until the next time they're run up and down and the seal flips "wrong" again.

I then asked, since this is happening while the RV is in motion (in tow) if this was a safety concern to Lippert and if there was any recall for replacing these due to being a safety concern. He then checked with others there then came back and asked where I lived - I told him outside Colorado Springs. He then said the only offer he could make for replacement would be if I were to bring the unit to their Goshen, IN service facility and they would cover free parts and labor only. Now he's really got my attention. I said that might be possible later on, like close to summer, and asked how long this might take to complete.

He wasn't sure about how long the repairs would take then asks for information - data from RV and my address and phone. I gladly provide all this and he goes about entering this into a service request form for me. A little while later he comes back with a case number and says their service dept will be in touch. At that point I'm feeling like this might actually turn into a good thing. I thank him profusely and end the Chat session. After the session closes I provided the requested Chat survey ratings, and gave Matthew high marks for knowledge and professional conduct and the great help. Now, I'll await their service dept contact.

While I didn't bring it up during this Chat, I will when the service dept calls or emails, and this is whether they would consider providing the replacement rams to me at no cost so I can either install them myself or maybe have a local RV dealer to that, with me paying for any labor cost involved. That would save me a LOT of time and money traveling to their facilities.

If this actually happens this may be a good indicator for others with the same issue to get their landing gear and/or stabilizer jacks replaced too. I will definitely add to this as it develops. Stay tuned.

wingnut60
01-05-2018, 01:31 PM
Thank you for the info--recent posts seemed to show Lippert was moving away from any ownership of the problem...

Rockyhud
01-05-2018, 02:15 PM
That's why I titled the thread with maybe at the end. I don't know but I'm thinking that my asking if this was a safety concern for Lippert may have turned the conversation toward the replacement option. During the initial Chat session I let Matthew know the problem was with the landing gear dropping while the RV was in motion (in tow) and I was trying to find a way to resolve it, possibly with fork oil, or use a suitable work-around like suggested here to run the jacks up and down with no weight. His response up to that point was it sounded like the rig has a bypassing jack or bad seal and that Lippert doesn't have repairs kits, so the rams would need to be replaced but inferring it would be all at my expense. When I broached the topic of it being a safety issue is when the conversation turned more positive. At this point I'm hopeful but not to the point of counting on it happening, yet. We'll see.

Dapperdan
01-05-2018, 06:05 PM
Rockyhud, I think you're going to get your service work done N/C! When I called last May about our front jacks and spoke with Josh that was the same routine as you. Josh asked all sorts of questions about our trailer. We were scheduled in for service and the rest is history! :mrgreen:

I don't want to give you false hopes but it sure sounds to me like your problems will be solved.

Our replacement job was done is a single day and was AWESOME!!!

Good Luck...... Dan

Notanlines
01-06-2018, 06:18 AM
Rocky, can you yell "Road trip?" If they're willing to do it then turn your lemon into lemonade and enjoy the trip in the spring or summer.....

Rockyhud
01-07-2018, 01:53 PM
Talked this over with the wife and she agrees this would be good to have the work done by Lippert, especially with them covering parts and labor. The travel costs wouldn't be insignificant, but still, having Lippert do the work would be best, since they know the systems best and we'd have the best chance of getting the best quality work from them.

It would be a long 2-day trip (about 1200 miles) each way, basically from Colorado Springs to Goshen, plus whatever time they took doing the work. So Jim may have the timing about right - spring or summer trip there may be in our future. We'll see how this develops but it sounds promising.

Dapperdan
01-07-2018, 02:10 PM
Where you will be going to for your repair work is an exclusive plant Lippert has for their level-up systems. You will see tons of Lippert plants in the general area, producing their other components.

They will have the proper parts for the correct repair to your unit not to mention the experienced personnel to CORRECTLY complete your repair. They don't just work on DRVs either, while we were there they had just finished up a Big Horn.

I'm happy for you, you'll get your problem solved, it'll be a trip well worth taking. Be sure to check out Shipshewana while in the area, that's the heart of Amish country, tons of shops and things to see there.

Dan

Rockyhud
01-08-2018, 04:12 PM
Today I received email from Lippert Customer Service saying they need a photo of the frame tag and one of the front landing gear that have the "drifting down" issue. Brandi (CS rep) says this info will be sent to Josh for review and scheduling. The one photo I haven't taken with my phone camera is the data plate on the frame under the entry door (recess for the folding steps), so I sent pics of all the tags from the 5th wheel hitch and requested she let me know if those will suffice. I think I'll snap a photo of the one under the door just in case. I'm still not quite believing this will happen, yet, but the process sure seems to moving in that direction.

BTW, in case this becomes reality, I'm looking to travel I-80 and wondering how good that highway through Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois and northern Indiana are. Anyone traveled that route lately? I traveled I-70 from Limon, CO (east of Denver) to St Louis this past November when I traveled to FL to checkout and buy the RV and found it pretty decent with the exception being Kansas City - utterly horrible traffic and not very good road surfaces there. Once on the east side of KC, I-70 was again pretty nice but getting through KC - I'd rather not deal with that again. Also, the I-80 route, according to Google Maps, is about 60 miles shorter distance and 1 hour less time than the I-70 route.

golf_bears
01-08-2018, 06:55 PM
I traveled I-80 this past September (late Sept) and it was in good shape. From Salt Lake City to Des Moines. Ended up in Ames for October Fest on our way to Wisconsin.

Cummins12V98
01-09-2018, 08:20 AM
Some of the worse highways I have traveled on are the States surrounding and including Indiana.

Dapperdan
01-09-2018, 09:58 AM
I can't comment on I-80 west as I haven't been on it for a couple of years but when you get to Indiana it turns into a toll road. The Indiana Toll Road is in pretty good shape, they've been busy resurfacing it.

When I go to the Elkhart area I use I-94 east to exit 40 (Michigan City/LaPorte), taking 20 straight east to the bypass around South Bend (31/20). Staying on 20 all the way to La Grange (if I'm going to DRV). 20 is a four lane divided highway all the way to Middelbury where it turns into a regular two lane highway. It's used by LOTS of RVers and truckers avoiding the tolls. We were just out that way in July or August and it's an easy drive, with or without a trailer.

Good luck, from everything you're saying you're going to be making a trip to Goshen in the not too distant future! :mrgreen:

Dan

Rockyhud
01-09-2018, 10:02 AM
Thanks guys. A few years back (2011-2012) I worked TDY for Rolls-Royce in Indianapolis, IN and drove to a few locations within driving distance and found most of IN roads to be pretty decent. I've been in some of the states I-80 runs through but so long ago that a lot could have changed in that time.

Not related to this potential trip, but the worst roads I've encountered in a LONG time were in MS and OK. Highway 49 coming into the south side of Jackson was absolutely THE worst and Hwy 287/385 across the OK panhandle wasn't much better, but Hwy 49 was a doozy. It was so rough that I pulled over onto the shoulder, little that there was, 2 separate occasions to check the truck and RV for damage because it was rattling us so violently that I thought sure something had broken due to the super hard jolts and sounds of something that broken or shaken loose. Turned out these sounds were coming from the 5th wheel safety chains banging the truck bed floor as the rear wheels crossed the expansion joints between concrete sections of the roadway. And it wasn't just our vehicle enduring the roughness as I heard similar loud noises from each passing semi-truck and trailer that passed by when I was checking things. I guarantee we will NEVER travel that road again.

porkchop
01-09-2018, 03:54 PM
WHOA!!! 5th wheel safety chains??

Bill

Rockyhud
01-09-2018, 04:27 PM
Yup. I'm using an Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection 2 hitch and since some states mistakenly consider it a gooseneck adapter I decided I'd buy and use their safety chains kit, just in case any LEO in one of these states were to stop us and check for gooseneck trailer safety chains. Don't really need them except for that but figured they might save some time and aggravation if such an occasion ever occurred.

porkchop
01-09-2018, 07:06 PM
Yea, you can never win an argument with LEO along side the road.

Bill

Cummins12V98
01-10-2018, 12:13 PM
"Beefed up 97 Ram 2500 4x4 with 12-valve Cummins, 5-speed, long bed. Tows the DRV very nicely."

Sorry I just had to say something. I don't care how "Beefed Up" my 98 12V was I would never consider towing my last DRV a 36SB3 and really would not consider a 38'. It aint about towing it's about handling.

Rockyhud
01-10-2018, 04:49 PM
No problem - to each his own. My version of "beefed up" and yours may well not be the same. FWIW, I was very pleasantly surprised and pleased with how well my truck performed the entire trip from FL (basically sea-level) all the way home to CO (just shy of 7000 ft). Even with very strong cross-winds in FL and again in TX, I didn't feel worried about how the truck and RV were behaving as it stayed in my lane without "white knuckle driving". There were even times when I'd look at the speedometer and see that I was inadvertently going faster than I should and the stopping and general handling capabilities gave me confidence there wasn't a mismatch. Again, to each his own.

Notanlines
01-11-2018, 04:36 AM
Rocky, I gave a little thought to your situation and originally was going to ignore what you wrote. After giving it some consideration I changed my mind. Your Dodge has a cargo capacity in the 1800-1900 pound capacity. Let's add up a tank of fuel, you and Momma, maybe a hundred pounds of "stuff" including your hitch in the bed and you only have about 1300? pounds left. How am I doing so far? Pin weight on your RV will be about 3800 pounds, maybe more. I don't plan on changing your mind, but it is important that you and maybe some newbies realize that a 21 year old 3/4 ton truck is not suitable to pull a Mobile Suites under any circumstances. As a matter of fact, not any of the 3/4 ton trucks in 2018 are suitable to pull any Mobile Suites. YMMV

Cummins12V98
01-11-2018, 10:05 AM
My 36' DRV had a pin of 4,500#.

I did a rear disk kit on my 98 it did improve braking but in all honestly the brakes on it were SH!T. There is only so much a person can do. I know the 2nd gen rAM's are capable of towing much mort than the book says but......

Air bags can be added and 19.5's but IMHO that is NO WAY enough to "HANDLE" that massive load.

Just for fun please let us know what you did to "Beef Up" your RAM.

Stevencoles
01-15-2018, 06:45 AM
After reading this thread I called Lippert, got a no hassle excellent response and have an appointment in April for them to do the work. If you have this issue definitely contact them.

Cummins12V98
01-15-2018, 07:31 AM
^^^^^ that's GREAT!

Rockyhud
01-15-2018, 10:17 AM
After reading this thread I called Lippert, got a no hassle excellent response and have an appointment in April for them to do the work. If you have this issue definitely contact them.

Glad it's going to work for you as well. I talked with Joshua last Friday to see if they'd consider shipping the parts to a local RV service shop, to potentially save Lippert and me some $$. Long story short, Joshua explained they had tried this earlier and the results were generally not good. He explained this is not just a "parts swap" as the rams are significantly different requiring the frame mounts for the old rams be cut off the frame with a cutting torch or plasma cutter, the frame prepped for the new mounts and then welded on precisely, enlarging the holes through the RV body for the new rams to pass through, installing the new rams and finally installing new hydraulic lines and checking out the system. Joshua said in some of these earlier repairs at non-Lippert facilities, the shop labor soared to as much as 40 hours, making for a much costlier repair than anticipated and some cases not getting the parts installed properly too. I can certainly understand why Lippert doesn't want that to happen any more as that could impact their reputation.

That said, my wife and I have decided we'll definitely be making the trip to IN this spring/summer to get this done. Just haven't determined exactly when yet.

lostshakerofsalt
01-20-2018, 02:10 PM
When I found out there were modifications needed to install the new jacks I decided that I did not want someone to do it that I doubted was familiar with the procedure. Lippert does this mod pretty frequently in their Customer Support facility in Goshen. We decided to take the trip to Lippert and am very happy we did. They were very professional and got us in and out on schedule.

We did spend three nights in a hotel (would have been only one but wanted to take unit to them the day before to avoid icy roads). We decided to spend one more night in a hotel to avoid having to set up an take down in the snow and ice. Yes, we went up there in December. Our issue became critical when the front jacks would not hold the unit up and we decided to go to Goshen immediately from Memphis (around 1200 miles r/t). They did the replacement as a goodwill repair and the only thing it cost us was fuel, hotel, and time for the trip. Worth every penny. Josh Northam is definitely the one to work with.

They said each of the new jacks are 12klbs each vice 5klbs for the old jacks. As such they extend and retract slower but still much faster than electric landing gear. I think you will be happy with the new installation.

Dapperdan
01-20-2018, 02:44 PM
^^^^^^^^
Josh is Da man!!!! The crew there in Goshen does an AWESOME job! We had ours done last June, they told us "possibly" two days but they managed it in just one. They did a VERY good job for us too.

Dan

Rockyhud
02-18-2018, 06:48 PM
It's been a little over a month since my last posting about what we could do about our hydraulics. This will be a little long so bear with me if you want to see what we've decided and what the actual problems were.

So, after getting the approval from Lippert to replace the front rams and hoses, I decided to check out quite a few RV shops in the Colorado Springs vicinity to get a feel about how competent and professional they are. After checking out several I settled on Trailer Source RV Center to take our RV to and let them check it out and provide their best estimate on what the problem is and estimate of cost.

After a few days I got a call saying their master tech had come to the conclusion the rams were OK and the problem was leakage in the hydraulic hoses (either air in or fluid out or a combination of both) and estimated the cost to replace all hoses at close to $1500 to maybe as much as $1800. After mulling this over, considering the option to travel to Lippert as well as reviewing the findings and experience of stanleyz and his conclusion in his case that the rams needed to be rebuilt with new seals, top and bottom, I called Trailer Source back and told them I wasn't yet convinced the problem was leakage. I did acknowledge there is leakage as I had discovered this during my initial checkout of the RV in FL and conceded that while I am nowhere near being a hydraulics expert, I just couldn't rationalize how leaking hoses could cause the problem with landing gear dropping while the RV was in tow. So, I setup a visit with the master tech and the service manager to look at what they were proposing and discuss the testing that stanleyz had published.

During the onsite visit they went over their assessment that the problem was limited to the hoses connected to the front landing gear and one hose going to the vanity slide and the cost would possibly cost less than the $1500 estimate. I also brought a printed page with the procedure that stanleyz provided and passed that on to the service manager and master tech so they could read the whole thread. One important fact that registered with them and me was that the problem seemed to manifest itself while towing the RV and typically took half a day or more to cause the front landing gear to drop noticeably.

I was pleased with the fact both men weren't absolutely sure there conclusion was the only one and that they were open to hearing and using the test method that stanleyz wrote up. At that point they agreed to use the info from stanleyz to test the rams and also said they would get an accurate measurement of the hoses that they thought needed to be replaced. After a couple more days I got another call saying they had tested the rams and were more convinced the problem was a leakage issue. At that point I scheduled another visit to discuss this with them.

I arrived and soon was back in the shop talking with the master tech and seeing firsthand what he was recommending. It was at this point that he told me he and another tech ran the test procedure that stanleyz wrote up and determined from that test the rams and seals were not a problem - they did not drop at all during the test. He also told me he thought about the mention of taking half a day or more towing for the problem to manifest itself and thought, how could he duplicate the conditions of road vibrations that seemed to be a factor in causing the rams to drop. So, while the RV had all rams up, all slides in and with the all the weight on the wheels/tires and a couple of HD jack stands under the frame near the landing gear, he grabbed some hoses near the manifolds atop the pump and started shaking them to simulate road vibrations. He said it didn't take but a few seconds of this and the front landing gear started dropping. They used the hydraulic system to raise them back up and repeated the test and got the same results - rams started dropping after a few seconds of shaking the hoses.

Armed with that knowledge and seeing how willing the master tech was to use the troubleshooting stanleyz procedure to determine the root cause, I gave them the go ahead to get the cost estimate for all hoses he though were problematic. The next day I got a call saying the $1500 or less estimate would cover all expenses. So, after discussing the options with my wife of A), spending 4 days of travel to take the RV to Lippert (plus 1-2 days of killing time while in IN), spend a week of my vacation time doing this and spending about $1000 or more out of pocket to get the RV there and back (not to mention the possibility of costly incidents happening on the road) as well as figuring out how to deal with 2 lab dogs (1 being a 14-month old puppy), or B) we have Trailer Source do the repairs. We decided to go with option B and I called and gave them the go ahead to do the repairs.

They got busy and had the new hoses made locally and tested all to make sure there were no leaks and that the problem was resolved. They also made some changes in the hydraulics compartment that I thought were VERY good. First, the original configuration from DRV or Lippert had the pressure and return manifolds both connected to the pump AND suspended by and holding the manifolds and all the respective hoses supported by the single hydraulic fittings between the pump and respective manifold in position. This meant each pump to manifold connection had to not only provide a path for the fluid but also a mechanical support for the manifold and hoses and have to deal with all the vibrations these items would pass through to the fittings. Think of it this way - the single fitting is hard fastened to the pump and the mass of the manifold and several hoses connected to it have only the fitting holding them in place, absorbing and dealing with pretty much all vibrations they amass and pass back through to the fittings. I firmly believe that's why the fitting originally holding the pressure manifold was showing the most leakage. What Trailer Source did was to relocate both manifolds to nearby solid frame mount locations and use short hoses from the pump to each of the manifolds. Their solution, once I got to see it, was actually very logical and elegant and I believe will be a very effective and long lasting change.

The photos I've attached show what the hydraulic system looked like before and after. The first shows the original config with both manifolds connected only by their respective single fitting which supports the manifold and hoses and has to deal with any vibrations past to and through them. You can also see the ref fluid ring near the base of the fitting at the back, going to and supporting the pressure manifold. The next photos show where the manifolds and hoses are now located and the 2 short hoses that now connect from the pump to the manifolds. The rest of the photos show more of where both manifolds are located and connected. Also, during the short trip home with it (about 30 miles total) I was gratified to see the landing gear had not dropped any during that time so I'm pretty sure this is a done deal.

So, now that we've done the repairs locally I don't foresee the need to take the rig to IN to have Lippert do anything with it. That said, I still think it was a generous offer for them to cover the parts and labor charges for doing what they were proposing to do. And, if anyone has similar issues and can confirm the rams are the problem they should definitely get in touch with Lippert to see if they can get the same offer.

wingnut60
02-18-2018, 07:55 PM
Thank you for the detailed description of the work--I will need to take a look at mine when I get home and see how it is configured. You may have just saved me the trip to LaGrange also.
Great pics to help show what was changed.
Joe

porthole
02-19-2018, 09:06 AM
Did the shop come to a conclusion as to why when shaking the hoses it caused the rams to drop?

Notanlines
02-19-2018, 10:28 AM
I'm with porthole on this. It would seem that in replacing the two hoses one would be able to see where the fault was in the hose. Unless I'm mistaken, there could be only two things happen with a hose. Either air gets sucked into the system or fluid leaks out of the system. If shaking the control box causes it, then it also would seem that air would be allowed into the system rather than fluid leaking out.

Cummins12V98
02-19-2018, 10:50 AM
Thanks so much for the great write up and pics!!!

I will show these to my Machinist/Hydraulics friend that will be rebuilding all 6 of my rams.

No expert at all but I think air getting in is the explanation based on the mentioned tests!

Dapperdan
02-19-2018, 12:11 PM
Thanks for the detailed write-up Rocky (and pics!). I'm really impressed with the shop you found, somebody obviously knows their stuff! I'm glad you have resolved your problem, one way or another there was going to be out of pocket expense. :rolleyes:

So happy your nightmare has come to a close!

Dan

Rockyhud
02-19-2018, 12:55 PM
I'm with porthole on this. It would seem that in replacing the two hoses one would be able to see where the fault was in the hose. Unless I'm mistaken, there could be only two things happen with a hose. Either air gets sucked into the system or fluid leaks out of the system. If shaking the control box causes it, then it also would seem that air would be allowed into the system rather than fluid leaking out.

I should have been more detailed as the repairs weren't just replacing 2 hoses - it was 7 hoses total which includes the 2 short hoses to connect from the pump to the relocated supply and return manifolds. As for what kind of leaks there were, I know from my own inspections there was fluid leaking out and by extension I'm sure there was air leaking in as well, probably even more so and causing the problems. Most of the leakage was occurring at the hose crimp connections and not the fittings, which they told me in their experience is more common than with threaded fittings, provided the fittings aren't loose. The first photo of the original configuration in my previous post, shows the red ring of fluid at the base of one pump-to-valve block threaded fitting connection. This is one example of leakage where the threaded fitting probably was somewhat loose, due to the vibrations it had to endure. I have several more photos of drops of fluid collected on several hoses, on the bottoms of loops and more near the crimped connector areas - I just didn't include these.

Below is the service work that Trailer Source performed, taken from the invoice, verbatim. BTW, the final cost turned out being lower than their estimate as well, being $1355. All in all, I was impressed with the thorough and logical manner they used to troubleshoot the issue and the fact they were open to my (actually stanleyz's) inputs for testing and incorporated this in their troubleshooting process. I also want to thank stanleyz again for his nice write-up with more precise info to isolate and validate seal problems with the hydraulic rams. That, combined with the knowledge and skills of the personnel at Trailer Source, has me believing the hydraulic system issues this RV apparently had for quite some time have been remedied.

Service Performed (taken from the invoice):
"Tech found hydraulic lines leaking and valve blocks lose pressure in system. Hydraulic lines include 3 retract lines and 2 extend lines. Also found leaks at base of valve block - needs to be moved. Tech advised to move both valve blocks so that they are not resting on the connections and install 2 short hydraulic lines. Tech traced all hoses to destinations and measured for new hoses. Removed valve blocks from pump and relocated return valve block to square tubing above pump. Installed a piece of 4x4 block onto frame above hydraulic system then installed supply valve block onto 4x4 block. Tech had to make new wires for valves from pump solenoid. Started removing all hoses one at a time and replacing each one with new hose. Also installed the 2 short hoses from pump to valve blocks. Ran all hydraulic cylinders to remove air from the system. Tested system again to see if jacks moved. Jacks didn't move and there are no more leaks in system. Let system sit for 72 hours. No movement."

Rockyhud
02-19-2018, 01:23 PM
Thanks for the detailed write-up Rocky (and pics!). I'm really impressed with the shop you found, somebody obviously knows their stuff! I'm glad you have resolved your problem, one way or another there was going to be out of pocket expense. :rolleyes:

So happy your nightmare has come to a close!

Dan

I'm with you on believing I found a really quality shop here. From this experience I would highly recommend them to anyone needing work on their RV while in the Colorado Springs area. Another thing I forgot to mention was their warranty coverage that I'm also impressed with. Their warranty time frame for the parts is 90 days and they warranty their labor for 1 year! The labor coverage really surprised me as I wasn't expecting it to be that long. Just indicates to me they are very confident in how well they perform their work.

We were also pleased the final cost wasn't but a little over what we estimated for travel expenses to and from Lippert's facilities. This, long with the fact we didn't have to make a trip that would have impacted our lives and efforts in getting our house and property ready to sell this spring/summer AND I didn't have to use a week of vacation time off from work. All in all it seems to be a win-win situation for us.

Notanlines
02-19-2018, 01:27 PM
Thanks, Steve. I'm sure those of us who have been around RV's and such will agree $1355.00 seems like a very fair price for the work performed.

Ultratravler
02-21-2018, 09:05 PM
DRV claims they went to different jacks on 2017 and newer models. Has anyone with a 17 or newer unit had any problems with leaking jacks? Thanks.

Dave

Cummins12V98
02-22-2018, 08:09 AM
They are different. I have heard of no issues.

https://i.imgur.com/SC9aDC5l.jpg

Rockyhud
02-22-2018, 10:43 AM
I have no experience with 2017 hydraulic rams and I too haven't heard of any issues, but what I would add is that rams and seals aren't the only items to consider as the cause of landing gear and stabilizers dropping or just not holding as they're supposed to. The photos I've attached were taken before the repairs to our rig. If you look closely at the hose ends with red fluid drops on the bottom you'll see there is no red fluid around the threaded fittings where they attach to the mating connector - only the crimped area of the hoses. The crimps on these hoses had either not been crimped properly originally, which I doubt, or the hose material and/or crimp slowly degraded over time, which I believe to be the case, allowing tiny paths for the fluid and air to leak.

Having worked with my dad on our family farm in my youth - running tractors with multiple implements year after year - I recall seeing hydraulic hose seepage leaks near the hose ends occasionally. We didn't think too much of it at the time since they were just slow seepage and figured the harsh environment to be the main reason for them. Looking back I think the frequent use of the hydraulic rams (raising and lowering implements numerous times a day), along with the hot and dirty environment and age of the equipment, would definitely take a toll on the quality of the hoses and crimped ends. Our RV hydraulic systems don't get used nearly as often nor work in as harsh an environment as farm equipment but they still have high pressure applied and endure vibrations during travel times, so we shouldn't be too surprised to see them degrade over time.

Just something to consider if anyone is experiencing issues with their RV hydraulic system.

Notanlines
02-22-2018, 02:30 PM
"nor work in as harsh an environment as farm equipment"
Steve, that statement made me think and laugh about working and spending time on my friends' farms as a youth and watching the abuse that the old Massey-Fergusons and John Deeres went through, especially the ones with a front end loader. Those machines went through hell on a daily basis and came back for more. And on 1960's technology.

Rockyhud
02-22-2018, 04:12 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean - especially attaching "old" to the description. My dad was very frugal when it came to the farm equipment and what he bought and used was a testament to that. He had a liking for Allis-Chalmers tractors and up to a while after I started working with him the only tractor he had had absolutely NO "luxury" features. It had a hand crank up front for starting the engine, a lever operated clutch, no power steering or brakes, no cab to keep dust and heat out and no hydraulics - it just used manually operated implements that used a pull rope and cam to lift and drop the implement. The last and most modern tractor finally had electric start and a hydraulic pump to attach a ram to that was transferred from one implement to the other as needed. Neither of the tractors could pull more than a 3-bottom plow and that made plowing especially slow turning the ground over and finishing the job. Each time we'd go round the field, it seemed like the width of ground turned over on each pass was about as wide as a 19" lawn mower makes cutting grass. We always produced as much wheat per acre as anyone else - it just took longer getting the field prepped and sown. He always justified the old equipment, saying it got the work done and he didn't have enormous payments to the bank for fancy stuff, and that let him keep more of the earnings as a result. Hard to find fault with that.

Rockyhud
03-07-2018, 10:55 AM
Since I had the landing gear repairs done locally and am pleased with the results I decided I needed to contact Joshua at Lippert to let him know about the repairs and that we won't be using their offer to repair/replace the landing gear. While doing this I briefly explained what the local service center did to identify the faulty parts (hoses) and what they did to resolve the issue. Here's what he replied back.

"I'm glad that you were able to get this resolved semi-locally. Rest assured we would have, in fact, done the same to verify that there were not any faulty components that could mimic the landing gear failing as well. It would be a shame to go through such an invasive procedure, just to find out that it was not the jacks at fault. Some of the people I have spoke with do not understand this and throw fault on the jacks immediately. Thank you so much for your honesty and praise for this situation. Please keep us in mind for future service or even any upgrades you may seek. We are more than happy to help. Have a great day!"

First of all, I was impressed that he took the time to reply back and thank me for letting him know we wouldn't be needing their services. I also found it interesting his comment about some people not understanding how to troubleshoot and immediately blame the jacks instead of methodically finding the real cause of the problem. From this response it indicates, to me at least, Lippert would do a thorough assessment of the problem and take the proper steps to remedy the issue, instead of just throwing parts at the problem then seeing (hoping?) if that fixed it. From that I'd say anyone who doesn't have a known good service center nearby can be assured they'll get a quality repair if they decide to have Lippert take care of the issue(s).

Ultratravler
03-07-2018, 03:56 PM
It would be interesting to hear from someone that has been at Lippert, for the jack repair, and see if all the hydraulic hoses were replaced or just the jacks.

Dave

Dapperdan
03-08-2018, 06:06 AM
Ultra, we were at Lippert last summer for replacement. Our front jacks were replaced by way more robust rams and a completely different mounting to our frame than what the old setup was. Our lines to the front jacks were DEFINATELY replaced. I do not think the rears were replaced however, it doesn't appear that way.

So far we've experienced zero problems with the (new) system! :D

Dan

oldbird
03-08-2018, 09:50 AM
I just read thru this thread thinking that it was certain years of DRV's affected? Is that true or should I be concerned with my 08? I do have drips under some hoses but the fittings are all tight. The fluid level never seems to drop. Thanks

Rockyhud
03-08-2018, 03:03 PM
Dan,
First, I'm glad your repairs have been successful. Your description of completely different mounting to the frame is precisely why Josh said they won't "farm out" this work to anyone any more, as the work of cutting off the original mounts, cleaning, prepping and installation of the new mounts requires an intimate understanding of both the old and new jacks along with the skills and tools necessary for doing the job. Also, based on what Josh told me, they did testing and determined in your case that landing gear rams were faulty and needed replacement, along with the hoses going to them. Other RVs with similar symptoms may only need the faulty hoses or other components replaced - ours being an good example of this. That's what I appreciated from Josh's explanation - they would thoroughly test the system to determine what was not good - not just assume and replace parts without knowing for certain. That's also what I found refreshing about Trailer Source RV Center in Colorado Springs. They didn't just assume our landing gear rams needed rebuilding or replacement and found the actual faulty parts.

Glenn,
I wish I could give you and others a good answer to that but I can't. During my email and phone conversations with Josh he never mentioned, and I never got the impression, that there was any particular age range of RVs that Lippert would or would not consider for performing the repairs/replacements. If you're experiencing the symptoms we had - landing gear slowly dropping when the RV was being towed - I would encourage you to contact Lippert about the problem and see where it leads. Just FYI, when I asked if they would consider this a safety issue, that is when the inquiry turned towards getting the problem taken care of with them covering the parts and labor cost (only), and making sure I was aware any costs incurred in getting the RV to their facilities and back would be at my cost. I told Josh I was grateful for their even making such an offer and fully understood why all other costs would be on us. BTW, looking at the fluid level in our hydraulic system tank, I couldn't tell that is was noticeably getting lower either. Your observations seem like mine regarding fittings being tight, with only one exception, and there was no fluid leakage apparently at any fitting except for the one, but there were numerous drops collected on the bottoms of hose loops. Closer inspection revealed there was visible fluid around the outside of the crimps of these hoses too. The leaking fluid was more like a thin film around the crimps so the red color didn't really stand out, but when I wiped them clean it was easy to see on the paper towel.

Dapperdan
03-08-2018, 06:51 PM
Steve, Thanks for your explanation. As you stated I'm sure the Lippert techs thoroughly checked out our system before "diving into" extensive cutting and welding!

I can't help thinking that perhaps the Lippert techs did some deconstruction of the rams they were pulling out and replacing to see exactly what was failing. Makes me "wonder" how many had the failure YOU had going on.

I know prior to us getting into the Lippert shop, Josh stated they were VERY busy working on front jacks. As a matter of fact there was a Big Horn in the bay ahead of us, we were to have our trailer into them at 7:00 am sharp the next morning.

Not only was the ram system drastically different but like you stated the way the new rams get welded to the frame is radically different as well! My compartment where the hydraulics are looks completely different than it did the day we pulled into Lippert.

Dan

oldbird
03-08-2018, 07:23 PM
Thanks Steve! Mine is not having any problems so I will not try to fix something that's not broke. I'll keep on eye on things though, glad I read your thread.

Mtntrek
03-12-2018, 03:49 PM
It would be interesting to hear from someone that has been at Lippert, for the jack repair, and see if all the hydraulic hoses were replaced or just the jacks. Dave
Yes, the front hydraulic lines were replaced as I believe they (the replacement cylinders) are ported differently. Prior to the retrofit there were no visible leaks on our trailer.

Thanks, we appreciate all the information presented on this troublesome topic.
Be well.