Redo Honey Cherry

[Mike2338]

The table in my 2011 was showing wear so I am having it stripped and refinished. The results are not to my satisfaction but I don't think it is the fault of the refinisher.

I called DRV before we started but the Honey Cherry is out of production so I was not able to get any stain from them. They recommended just trying to match some off the shelf or a combination. I was able to get close to a color match.

My issue is the amount of grain now showing. Sections of the table are now showing a very open grain where the original did not. It looks like open grained oak. We have 5 coats of stain on and I do not think anymore will close the grain.

Does anyone know what the process DRV used in finishing or the product used? Did they spray on? Is it even stain or maybe a translucent paint? I always assumed it was cherry wood. Is it oak?

Any insight will be appreciated.

m

[Cummins12V98]

Cherry is photo light sensitive. It darkens a lot with time. The process is to spray on and wipe off one coat of stain. Then lacquer sealer sand then satin lacquer finish.

Sounds like you have WAY TOO MUCH stain applied.

[Suite Sweets]

If your stain is pigmented (solids at the bottom of the can, that required to be stirred up with a stick), then I agree - way too much stain. The top coat will have problems adhering to the wood - it will stick to the pigments, but the pigments won't adhere to the wood very well. If you can live with what you've got, i suggest you do so until the finish begins to fail.

If the stain is dye (shake it up), then 5 coats is ok, because it will be absorbed into the wood. The topcoat will last, unless you decide to strip it off, though it will be less light resistant than pigmented stain.

For the grain that opened, use a filler. Attached is a link. Don't start now - it needed to be done before stain.

http://www.hardwoodinfo.com/articles/view/pro/23/253

Finishers should be able to match the color so closely, you can't tell the difference. One of the questions finishers should have asked is: "What kind of light." Wood finishes look different under fluorescent, under incandescent, under L.E.D, etc.

And finally, this sounds like more obfuscation from DRV. I think they do not make their cabinets, and they should have referred you to the cabinetmaker/finisher. Any finisher worth his salt, keeps the recipe for the stain in his files. He'll share unless precluded by a non-disclosure with DRV.

Stains, sealers, and lacquer do not need to be sprayed. All have formulas available that are slow drying - especially for the home repair person - the perfect product(s) for your table.

Where is you home base ?

[Mike2338]

We have been using Minwax brand stain. We did stir and not shake.
I think in 2011 DRV was doing their own cabinet work. I did a factory tour and did walk through that area. Don't know if they still do.
In SE Michigan.
I will call DRV on Monday and see if I can get more information about they process they use/used.

[Suite Sweets]

I need to amend one of my comments. Minwax is a stain, mixed in with polyurethane and solvent That would not have been the original stain used, as it is too slow drying. Five coats of that would be fine, so long as they are thin coats. If you build up thickness too much, you risk the finish cracking.
If in 2011, DRV was doing their own cabinetry, it may be that the color continued into later years. In that case, DRV would have provided the new finisher with the formula for the color.
Good luck

[Stripit]

>>The table in my 2011 was showing wear so I am having it stripped and refinished. The results are not to my satisfaction but I don't think it is the fault of the refinisher. <<

What process did the refinisher person use to strip the old finish off? Some chemicals seem to raise the grain of the wood much more than others.

[Suite Sweets]

If the table was dipped, it will open the grain much more than if stripped with a brush-on stripper.

[Mike2338]

It was not dipped. it was brushed on and scraped off.

[Mike2338]

Thank you for all the feedback so far.
Hopefully someone that has done some refinishing of their unit will pop in too.

One of the questions I will ask DRV tomorrow is the species of wood used.

[Cummins12V98]

DRV buys all their wood components like doors n running trim pre finished. They DO make their own cabinets on site.

You need to find out who does the finishing.

On the top its self I would have used an orbital sander to get down to bare wood. One coat plus stain then finish n your done!

[Suite Sweets]

DRV is currently using cherry. If it turns out yours is the same, it is a tight grained wood which usually does not require filler. The grain is smooth and even, attractive and refined. Cherry accepts stain relatively evenly. It is an excellent choice for cabinetry.

[Mike2338]

OK. This is what I learned.
DRV does not stain the wood. They buy the wood products from an outside company prestained. Up to the last few years that company was Hoosier Wood Creations out of New Paris Indiana.
I called them and found out they spray on the stain. No wiping off. So you could say it is a combination of a stain and painting process.
Not sure if I will be able to duplicate to original results. I am sanding down to the original surface again and trying again.
Thanks for the advice so far.

m

[Suite Sweets]

My suggestions, for what it's worth:

1. Strip, don't sand. Sanding will take you down to new wood, and it will not then, have darkened with age, as someone pointed out happens with cherry. Table will not match chairs.

2. Where the grain has opened, and you want to fill, use a filler that is slightly darker than the wood. The wood will continue to darken, and with time, will match the filler.

3. Choose a stain, other than MinWax. MinWax uses a lot of solvent, (over price + profits, I'm sure). That was why you had to put on 5 coats in first effort. I'm sure it was tough to get 'color' to the wood. For doing-it-yourself, I like gel stains. Bartley was my favorite, but they seem to have gone out of business. Maybe you'll still find some on the shelf at a Mom+Pop paint store - not likely at Lowes. Gel stains are wiped on by rags, is easy to avoid lap marks, and if you have sap wood (lighter color), it's easier to apply more stain to darken and match with darker wood. Be sure to keep it wet, working across the surface. What do I mean by that ? Start the job and complete the job - don't stop in the middle, allowing the edge of the fresh stain to dry, and then come back to the job later, expecting to pickup where you left off. You'll have a lap mark there that you can't get rid of.

4. Choose a sealer (if used) and a topcoat compatible with the stain, if necessary. If you used MinWax, use polyurethane topcoat. If you used a different stain, read the label.

5. High gloss finishes will show any flaws or dust, more readily than semi-gloss or satin finishes. Also, the later two are easier on the eyes (in that order) for desk or table tops. If you apply the topcoat by brush, a cooler day is better than a hot day - it will give more time for the brush marks to flow out. If you don't have a choice of days, then do it at the end of the day, when it's cooler. Don't put anything on the table for several days. It will take a week before lacquer is fully dry, a month for polyurethane to fully dry. If you put on multiple coats, leave days between coats. Probably the biggest error made in finishing, is rushing the job.

[Cummins12V98]

OK. This is what I learned.
DRV does not stain the wood. They buy the wood products from an outside company prestained. Up to the last few years that company was Hoosier Wood Creations out of New Paris Indiana.
I called them and found out they spray on the stain. No wiping off. So you could say it is a combination of a stain and painting process.
Not sure if I will be able to duplicate to original results. I am sanding down to the original surface again and trying again.
Thanks for the advice so far.

m

Did you ask if THEY did the finishing on your coffee table? I am willing to bet they did NOT. My table is more of a brown tone than the rest of the wood in the RV. I complained about the finish but I was basically told to *@$# off.

[Cummins12V98]

No matter what you do the color will darken with time with Cherry or another photo light sensitive wood.

I went thru this when building Dental Clinics for 30+ years. We would come into a clinic that had VG Fir for example on the window trim. It was very red in color. I would tell the customer we can match the look with new Fir trim but it would darken within a few months and be even darker than the existing wood. Cherry is no different.

I would try to get some stain from the company doing the finishing. But I do have a quart of stain from DRV that I requested when ordering. So that tells me they DO have stain at the DRV factory.

[Mike2338]

Thank You all for taking the time to give your advice. An special thank you to Suite Sweets for his detailed steps!
I decided to go with the spray process. I have been trying to educate myself online by reading and viewing videos. Seeing the videos that show a comparison between brushing/wiping and spraying/leaving, the spraying is giving the results I am looking for. More opaque.
A buddy and I will share the cost of the equipment so that will help with $$$. I am now researching different sprayers. Compressor based, motorized, turbines etc. I have a pancake compressor but does not have the CFM required. Too bad because the gun is pretty cheap if you already have compressor. I know I need a HVLP and should be able to get by with something around $200 total. There are many cheaper and more expensive.
I like this kind of project. Something I have never done before. Researching and also buying new toys!

[golf_bears]

Have you considered just buying another table from DRV with the correct wood and stain? Then you may be able to sell your existing table on Craig's List.

[Cummins12V98]

Our table is opaque and DOES NOT match the transparent finish. I disagree on the spray on finish unless the first coat is sprayed then a dark color is sprayed then wiped off to leave the dark color in the crevices of the trims profile. Just look at your doors it is not an even color.

Look at the trim in the pic. Our table has no color variation like the trim. The dark lines did not get there by accident.

http://i.imgur.com/TKmHN1vl.jpg

[Suite Sweets]

I had to laugh when Cummins stepped in with finishing advise. Cummins, not over anything you said, and glad you contributed. Finishing procedure is a science, but the application is absolutely an art. All of us will have an idea of what should be done, in what sequence. I think the door in Cummins picture is accented with glaze, which was applied before the stain - almost an exact opposite conclusion than Cummins'.
Mike, it was over the 'art' part of it, that I asked where you were based. I'd have stopped by and participated if you were en route.
Anyway, fun to share and solve problems. And if nothing else, we've stirred up a relatively inactive forum for a week or so. Gentlemen, thank you.

[Cummins12V98]

Suite I am curious as what are your finishing qualifications? " I think " is no better answer than mine. My qualifications are working directly with Designers, Painters and material refinishers to get the correct look to match a sample. The spray on and wipe on method is a premium finish. The table was no doubt finished with a semi transparent satin n sprayed that is why it does not look at all like the millwork in the RV.

[Suite Sweets]

Not a 'better' answer, just a different answer. Don't get your bowels in an uproar.

[Cummins12V98]

Not a 'better' answer, just a different answer. Don't get your bowels in an uproar.

If I started a post directed at you with this being the first thing stated i don't think you would appreciate it!

"I had to laugh when Cummins stepped in with finishing advise."

No uproar just don't appreciate the attitude.

[Suite Sweets]

Cummins, the rest of the quote was: "Cummins, not over anything you said, and glad you contributed." I was trying to convey that everybody would have an opinion - and here it begins. I'm not on here to make enemies.
Best Regards,

[Mike2338]

Golf, My color is no longer in production and the company that DRV bought it from is no longer associated with DRV. I wish I had bought some of the stain while it was in production or gotten the formula. I would recommend anyone do that now if they can.
Suite, why is this forum so quiet? The old SOITC was pretty active. I know Thor has a forum but that is quiet also. I can monitor the Thor forum but can't post. They never gave me authorization.
Cummins, whenever I ask for advice and receive it I am grateful. No matter if I act on the advice or not I am grateful. I will continue to try and educate myself and hopefully come close to the result I am looking for!
Cheers! ;)

[Cummins12V98]

Golf, My color is no longer in production and the company that DRV bought it from is no longer associated with DRV. I wish I had bought some of the stain while it was in production or gotten the formula. I would recommend anyone do that now if they can.
Suite, why is this forum so quiet? The old SOITC was pretty active. I know Thor has a forum but that is quiet also. I can monitor the Thor forum but can't post. They never gave me authorization.
Cummins, whenever I ask for advice and receive it I am grateful. No matter if I act on the advice or not I am grateful. I will continue to try and educate myself and hopefully come close to the result I am looking for!
Cheers! ;)

That is what these forums are for to give and receive info. Hope it all works out for you!

[marley.mark]

You should have got small bottles of the different types of stains used in your rig with your manuals, paperwork etc.

[golf_bears]

The small bottles that come along with a new RV are for the exterior paint so one can touch up small scratches. The interior wood stain is usually all the same color. I recently got a new MS and needed to pull teeth to get some extra stain. What I ended up getting from DRV was a stain stick. Something like a felt tip pen. Works great to touch up small scuffs. That is what DRV uses at their service center to touch up customer's RVs.

[Cummins12V98]

I received paint samples for the exterior I also received a jar of color putty, stain pens and 1 pint of honey cherry stain. I did ask for a few of these items.

[wingnut60]

Mike2338,
Don't know why you can't join the Thor/DRV forum--if they let me in, well, anyone should be able to join.
There is also the SOITC forum, also kind of quiet.
The DRV Facebook has several clubs to read up on.
Joe

[Cummins12V98]

"if they let me in, well, anyone should be able to join."

HAAAAA, so true! Now that I think about it I fit into that statement also.

[Notanlines]

What Mike said about the Thor forum is correct. For about a month I tried on four (4) different computers/Ipad and it would never give up the "security check." I sent three messages to the forum moderator but I guess $150K RV isn't high-class enough to join the Thor group. I gave up also.