Incorrect Federal ID Tag

[Gemstone]

Found on the RV.net web site today:

Vehicle Make / Model: Model Year(s):
DOUBLE TREE / ELITE 2006-2010

DOUBLE TREE / MOBILE SUITE 2006-2010

DOUBLE TREE / SELECT SUITE 2006-2010

Manufacturer: DOUBLETREE RV Mfr's Report Date: JAN 11, 2011
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 11V012000 N/A
NHTSA Action Number: N/A

Component: EQUIPMENT:LABELS
Potential Number of Units Affected: 1,417
Summary:
DRV IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2006-2010 ELITE, MOBILE SUITE, AND SELECT SUITE RECREATIONAL VEHICLES. THESE VEHICLES HAVE THE INCORRECT FEDERAL ID TAG, GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR) INFORMATION LABELS WHICH FAILS TO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF PART 567, "CERTIFICATION."
Consequence:
FAILURE TO FOLLOW PROPER VEHICLE LOADING SPECIFICATIONS BECAUSE OF A MISPRINTED LABEL COULD INCREASE THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy:
OWNERS WILL BE PROVIDED WITH NEW FEDERAL ID TAG INFORMATION LABEL AND INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING JANUARY 2011. OWNERS MAY CONTACT DRV AT 1-574-457-6472.

Regards
Gemstone

[Motor31]

Interesting. Since it's a recall I suppose the tag must be indicating a GVW that is too high. There wouldn't be a problem if it was rated below the actual capacity. I'm curious how they came to the conclusion that the tag was incorrect.

[Huck]

Maybe they need to go back to the 16,500 LB. rating like our 2005s.
:?:
I am interested to know.

[Gemstone]

The NHTSA report (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallresults.cfm?start=1&SearchType=DateSearch&date=12/01/2010&type=V&SCR323=false&summary=true&prod_id=0&PrintVersion=YES) does not specify, however they do list a phone number.

If I were to guess, I'd say they are weight labeled "too high"....

Regards
Gemstone

[terry and jo]

Well, not to start anything, but I don't think I'll put too much faith in the opinion of a federal bureaucrat as to the capabilities of the frame and suspensions of an RV.

I would imagine that any reputable RV manufacturer wouldn't over-rate their units and risk lawsuits.

Terry

[Motor31]

Well, not to start anything, but I don't think I'll put too much faith in the opinion of a federal bureaucrat as to the capabilities of the frame and suspensions of an RV.

I would imagine that any reputable RV manufacturer wouldn't over-rate their units and risk lawsuits.

Terry

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you owe me a new keyboard! I just spewed coffee all over this one. That's the funniest thing I've seen posted here in ages!!! Thanks for the funny start to the week. :lol:

[Gemstone]

"I would imagine that any reputable RV manufacturer wouldn't over-rate their units and risk lawsuits"....

Well I don't want to start anything either, but I have been around the block a time or two with this DRV rig....and I gotta ask...do you think DRV would be issuing updated weight stickers on their own volition ? I'd tend to believe the NHTSA got involved and probably for good reason. And isn't "reputable RV manufacturer" what you might call an oxymoron ?

Regards
Gemstone

[Stripit]

OH NO, we might have a lot of overweight rigs now with new weight tags!!! Some rigs were borderline before, now what.

[rotaxman]

I was really, really going to try and not post on this but I just can't help myself.

I don't want to start anything either but I have to agree with Gemstone. Knowing what I know about DRV and Lippert and the willingness of both of these five and dime store run rinky dink company's to turn their back on known defective frame issues (Lippert not addressing the problem and DRV not halting production until the problem was addressed) it does not suprise me at all that DRV would misrepresent their product.

Goes back to that reputable part again. You can not be considered reputable and ignore the above problems.

Safety is of no concern to DRV they could care less I just got back from the first Kansas City show and there was a 36ft Mobile Suite 4 slide there setting on 16inch tires and wheels. There is no way that you can have a 36ft Mobile Suite on 16's and not be over what the wheels and tires are rated for. Not my opinion just simple math. Everything DRV makes except the 32's should be on 17.5's or better yet 19.5's. They also should be on 9000lb axles.

Sorry if I have offended anyone here I did not set out to do that. I'm just stating fact.

As always good camping

Jerry

[Huck]

Maybe, maybe DRV needs to go back to the three axle option(like in 2005), or just make them standard equipment.

[rotaxman]

Hey Huck,

Triple axle might be alright but I'm not a big fan of them as they put a lot of side load on bearings, wheels, tires and suspension due to the scuffing during turning.

In the case with Drv and their lack of engineering talent the triple axle option didn't work so well as they just tagged a third axle on behind the first two which increased the pin weight and did not make the axle carry enough of the load which aggravated the problem even more.


There are some triples out there I have a friend that has a Holiday Rambler with triples and it works fine for him. He does not full time or pull his trailer a lot. He doesn't have to worry about being to heavy on his axles tires or wheels.

I met Heath from Wheels RV in Springdale Ar while I was at the show as I recall he has a good track record here on the forum. He was very pleasant and sympathetic to my dilemma and offered to take care of any warranty or other issues that I may come across.

As always good camping

Jerry

[The View 5046]

Has anyone talked to a person at Drv????????? And three axles should be on all 38 footers. Weight is critical on the 38 footers there are many who fill every empty space. We learned that lesson back in 2007, I only take what is needed. I guess Drv will have to do something and I believe they will.

[Mike2338]

Anyone have the facts yet?

[Walt]

I talked to a Dan Tower from DRV at the Havasu Rally and he didn't know anything about the label issue. Someone else from DRV was there but I don't remember his name and he didn't know anything either. This was the day after this post first started.

[Motor31]

IIRC 2006 was the first year that Mobile Suites started certifying 20k GVW units. When I looked at them at the first rally I did not see anything that was different from the previous (2005) models to indicate any change in either suspension or frame construction that would justify an increase of 1500 lbs in the GVW. They had the same dual 8k axles with the same H rated 17.5" tires on them.

I don't doubt that DRV will delay making any response to inquiries until their legal section has had a chance to write it up for them. That only makes sense to avoid additional liability concerns and with a federally mandated recall they are going to be very concerned with liability.

[hitchup]

Our 36' 2006 Elite Suite was only certified at 18,500 lbs. The build date was Aug 2005. Shortly after that they began to rate them at 20,000. It had 17.5 tires, but am not sure of the axles.

Our 38' 2009 MS which are normally rated at 18.5, when they are identical to the Elites at 20k. We requested it at 20k and DRV said okay, to write it on the order sheet. But they forgot and I had to get them to send us a corrected one.

DRV's phone # is 260 area code. The # shown on the recall is unpublished in Syracuse, IN. Lippert has a 574 area code.

[porkchop]

Has anyone verified the existance of this yet? Or we still going on someone's post on another web site?

Bill

[rotaxman]

One of Gemstones post leads to the Gov website showing the recall here is the link


http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallresults

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry

[hitchup]

Certification: http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title49/49-6.1.2.3.32.html

It may be as simple as how or where the weight labels are located may not be in compliance.

"(d) The label for trailers shall be affixed to a location on the forward half of the left side, such that it is easily readable from outside the vehicle without moving any part of the vehicle."

[RickandJanice]

Certification: http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title49/49-6.1.2.3.32.html

It may be as simple as how or where the weight labels are located may not be in compliance.

"(d) The label for trailers shall be affixed to a location on the forward half of the left side, such that it is easily readable from outside the vehicle without moving any part of the vehicle."


David and Vickie, thanks for posting the link to the actual section of the law referred to in the recall. After reading this section, I would have to agree that this could easily be as simple as a label placement or legibility or even missing information. This section refers more to what information is required on the label and its location and legibility than anything else. The majority of label noncompliance issues are usually just something to keep the federal government spending our tax dollars or due to some frivolous law suit! I think we all need to wait on DRV to take action before we try to judge them for something we are not sure about.

[Stripit]

This is what I know;

The recall is only changing the axle rating with anyone with G-range Wheels. It will go from 8000# to 7500#. Has nothing to do with tires just the wheel rating.
The axles are still rated 8000#.

[jcasey]

I did a bit of searching and found this:

RE: NHTSA Campaign #11 401200 N/A

The above noted NHTSA recall involves the misprinting on the federal tag of the GAWR (gross axle weight rating).

The units involved have the GAWR rating of 8,000 lbs on the tag and the rating of 7,500 lbs should be on the tag.

That is the only change the new tag will have. GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) and carry capacity are correct and do not change.

[rotaxman]

Maybe I'm a little heavy on the dumb side but given the extreme weight of these trailers I don't see how they can take a 1000 lbs of the axle rating and leave the carrying cap and the gross weights unchanged.

I know that my 06 weighed 18500 ready for the road and that my 09 weighs 17920 and could easily go above 18500. There just isn't much buffer.

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry

[RickandJanice]

GVWR and and does not have to change just because the GAWR is reduced because all of the trailer weight is not on the axles. I used to find this confusing too, until I understood this balance. A well balance 5th wheel should have 15% -20% of the GVWR on the king pin which takes this weight off of the axles. We have not had ours weighed yet, but intend to do this at the rally in June as long as Stacy is planning on doing this again. Glad they made this correction before June, but since we area 32TK3 I don't think it will affect our unit.

[rotaxman]

Hey RickandJanice

I understand the relation ship between pin weight and actual weight carried by the axles. As you said a real good balance actually a perfect one would be the 15 percent that you mentioned. All of DRV's 36's and above exceed that percentage they exceed the 20 percent range.

It is common to find the large DRV's with pin weights in excess of 4000 pounds. The two that I have had have been 4500 and 4300 respectively.

If I had a DRV unit that was rated at a 20000 pound GVWR and loaded it to 20000 pounds and the pin comes in at 4000 pounds lets even go a little further lets say it comes in at 4500 which it will maybe even more but it could also be less not likely though. (Less is worse for this example) That will leave 15500 for the axles to support which if your axles have been derated to 7500 each you will be 500 over what they are rated for. I'm fairly sure that the axles will not have the weight distributed evenly on both of them. One of them may be just under and the other could be a lot over.

I'm gonna hook up with Stacey one of these days and have him weigh me out. I was very surprised when I weighed my 06 I had the use of a digital platform scale at a grain company. I went there when they were closed and could take the time to weight the truck and trailer by axle and total weight.

Rick and Janice I didn't mean to sound snippy if I did I apologize as that was not my intent.

As always good camping

Jerry

[anijet]

Just for a known reference I have attached the weight slips for our MS 36TK3. We have a washer/dryer and a lot of supplies and tools in the basement. The last weigh slip dated 5-7-07 is fully loaded for what we believed at the time would be full time use. (We have since gone to part time.) The total axle weight is 13,380, well within the 15,000 rating.

The first slip is truck only and the second is new trailer empty.

As a note, a few hundred pounds on the truck rear axle is from a 50 gallon bed tank/tool box combo with hyd jacks, tire chains, etc.

[RickandJanice]

Jerry, no offense taken. I agree with what you are saying and understand your concerns. I also agree that the best assurance is to have Stacy do a weights and know for sure as each rig is different. We intend to do the same thing, hope this is offered again at this year's rally.