Basement Door

[mcfarlak]

Is there a fix out there for the screws coming out of the springs on the door springs? I:E, Tensioners that keep the basement door up.

[Gemstone]

See the topic a little further down "gas shock fix"...
I am still trying to find what I and Sika Corp consider to be the correct adhesive...Sikaflex or Sikafast. Others have used different adhesive with apparent good results.
The factory used Sikafast 252 as the adhesive beneath the flimsy piece of aluminum they used.
The following is what Sika Corp had to say:

"You had mentioned that the one substrate is potentially luan. Luan is typically thin plywood with a layer of gelcoat similar to fiberglass. Do you believe this is the substrate in question as opposed to vinyl or plastic? If so, we typically do quite well with gelcoats be it fiberglass or luan. In which case, I think your best bet would be SikaFast-3121 or SikaFast-3131S. These are our 2-component acrylics. The problem with something like Sikaflex-252 is that it is a 1-component polyurethane that requires moisture to cure. You would not be able put adhesive over the entire area of the steel, only about 1 inch around the perimeter. Ideally with any polyurethane products you would also want about 1/8" thick bondline. With the 2-component acrylics you can go much lower (0.030") as well as cover the entire area. However, our 2-component acrylics can be expensive and difficult to obtain (plus a static mixers and a special air gun are required). Conversely, polyurethanes will require more surface pre-treatments. We use to sell a version of SikaFast-3121 that came in a 50 mL cartridge that would use a small manual gun. However, I think that we have discontinued this item.

In summary, if this is indeed gelcoated luan, I would recommend one of the following:

1. (Best Option) Scuff the gelcoat and steel. Clean with IPA and allow 10 minutes of flash time. Bond together with either SikaFast-3121 or SikaFast-3131S. Make sure to avoid excessive "squeeze out."
2. (Acceptable Option). Scuff the gelcoat and steel. Apply Sika Aktivator by wiping on followed by wiping off on both the gelcoat and steel. Wait 10 minutes. Apply Sika Primer-206 G+P to both substrates. Wait 10 minutes. Apply Sikaflex-255 FC (Sikaflex-252 could possibly work, but Sikaflex-255 FC is a stronger stiffer product that I believe would provide much better results). Maintain a bondline thickness of ~1/8".

In regards to obtaining product, quite often distributors will not break cases. As each distributor is run independently, it will vary from location to location. To find a distributor, you can call our customer service at 800-688-7452 (you will need to select Option #2) or visit our website here for a partial listing:

http://www.sikaindustry.com/ind/ipd-star-distributor-agrpg.htm"

Some Sika products can be found on e-bay, but so far, I've not found # 255, nor Sikafast 3121 or 3131, nor have I found small quantities available from the distributors.

A request to purchase Sika from DRV has been ignored by Ryan Miller.

Regards
Gemstone

[Red Ram]

Ken, I can tell you what worked for me on my 07, and I didn't use any kind of adhesive. I fabricated 4"x4" x1/8" stainless steel plates with 8 equally spaced holes around the edges. In the center of the plate I drilled a 1/4" hole to mount the strut bracket. In the hole I tig welded a 1/4-20 stud. By tig welding it from the back side, it is flush with the door.

I had to file out the hole in the bracket so that it would receive the 1/4" stud. I used a self locking nut to hold the bracket on. I don't remember the size of the eight screws that hold the plate to the door, but they were not very big, maybe #8 size. Set the 4x4 plate at the side and top edge of the door so that 5 of the 8 screws will screw into the metal frame that is inside the edge of the door.

I put these on all three doors about this time 3 years ago and not one of them has loosened up. You probably would not have to use stainless steel or tig weld the stud to the plate. I am some-what of a do it yourself fabricator/welder and that happens to be the materials I had at hand.

[Gemstone]

For anyone wanting to use the same adhesive that DRV used on the early cargo doors, they are willing to sell a 10 oz tube of Sikaflex 252 for $10.60 plus shipping. Leanne Thomas, leannethomas@drvsuites.com, is the contact. I am holding out for Sikaflex 255FC as recommended by Sika Corporation....my search continues.

Regards
Gemstone

[ishie]

See the topic a little further down "gas shock fix"...
I am still trying to find what I and Sika Corp consider to be the correct adhesive...Sikaflex or Sikafast. Others have used different adhesive with apparent good results.
The factory used Sikafast 252 as the adhesive beneath the flimsy piece of aluminum they used.
The following is what Sika Corp had to say:

"You had mentioned that the one substrate is potentially luan. Luan is typically thin plywood with a layer of gelcoat similar to fiberglass. Do you believe this is the substrate in question as opposed to vinyl or plastic? If so, we typically do quite well with gelcoats be it fiberglass or luan. In which case, I think your best bet would be SikaFast-3121 or SikaFast-3131S. These are our 2-component acrylics. The problem with something like Sikaflex-252 is that it is a 1-component polyurethane that requires moisture to cure. You would not be able put adhesive over the entire area of the steel, only about 1 inch around the perimeter. Ideally with any polyurethane products you would also want about 1/8" thick bondline. With the 2-component acrylics you can go much lower (0.030") as well as cover the entire area. However, our 2-component acrylics can be expensive and difficult to obtain (plus a static mixers and a special air gun are required). Conversely, polyurethanes will require more surface pre-treatments. We use to sell a version of SikaFast-3121 that came in a 50 mL cartridge that would use a small manual gun. However, I think that we have discontinued this item.

In summary, if this is indeed gelcoated luan, I would recommend one of the following:

1. (Best Option) Scuff the gelcoat and steel. Clean with IPA and allow 10 minutes of flash time. Bond together with either SikaFast-3121 or SikaFast-3131S. Make sure to avoid excessive "squeeze out."
2. (Acceptable Option). Scuff the gelcoat and steel. Apply Sika Aktivator by wiping on followed by wiping off on both the gelcoat and steel. Wait 10 minutes. Apply Sika Primer-206 G+P to both substrates. Wait 10 minutes. Apply Sikaflex-255 FC (Sikaflex-252 could possibly work, but Sikaflex-255 FC is a stronger stiffer product that I believe would provide much better results). Maintain a bondline thickness of ~1/8".

In regards to obtaining product, quite often will not break cases. As each distributor & accessories (http://www.jcwhitney.com/distributor-and-accessories/c10239j1s17.jcwx) is run independently, it will vary from location to location. To find a distributor, you can call our customer service at 800-688-7452 (you will need to select Option #2) or visit our website here for a partial listing:

http://www.sikaindustry.com/ind/ipd-star-distributor-agrpg.htm"

Some Sika products can be found on e-bay, but so far, I've not found # 255, nor Sikafast 3121 or 3131, nor have I found small quantities available from the distributors.

A request to purchase Sika from DRV has been ignored by Ryan Miller.

Regards
Gemstone
Maybe the screws are loosing up that's why the door were starting to comes out. you shoud try to look for distributor where you can find set of tools that can help you on this.

[Gemstone]

This is a very old thread, long since resolved.

"Maybe the screws are loosing up that's why the door were starting to comes out. you shoud try to look for distributor where you can find set of tools that can help you on this".

Thanks for the suggestion, but the screws were coming loose due to poor engineering on the part of DRV. I've long since repaired the issue, without the help of a "distributor", just by getting creative and doing my own research.

For those who own newer rigs, you may not be aware of previous methods DRV used to affix the gas struts to the large basement door, a door by the way which is nothing more than foam covered by a thin film of wood and an even thinner plastic outer covering.

DRV decided that a flimsy piece of 1/16" aluminum, glued and pop riveted to the door would hold the gas strut...well after many cycles of opening and closing, the pop rivets would pop out of the styrofoam door (gee, who would have thought that might happen), and the thin aluminum would bend. the only thing they did do correctly was to use good glue, but even that will only last so long.

After many complaints, DRV incorporated the aluminum plate inside the door, below the surface, actually giving the screws or pop rivets holding the gas struts something to hold on to.

My fix was to get a 3/16" 8x8 inch piece of aluminum cut for each strut attachment, the appropriate glue/sealant was used, then short screws were used to hold the plate in place while the glue cured. 2 years later, the repair is holding up just fine.

Regards
Gemstone

[rotaxman]

Mcfarlack,

I did something similar to Gemstone, but I was to lazy to cut plates so I went to Lowes and bought junction box covers and drilled eight holes around the edges used some RV adhesive and screwed them to the door.

I did the repair on all 3 of the big doors. So far it has worked fine.

Jerry

[billr]

Mcfarlack,

I did something similar to Gemstone, but I was to lazy to cut plates so I went to Lowes and bought junction box covers and drilled eight holes around the edges used some RV adhesive and screwed them to the door.

I did the repair on all 3 of the big doors. So far it has worked fine.

Jerry

Whay Jerry said. All of ours pulled off the first two weeks we had the trailer. I too used 4X4" box covers, large rivets to hold in place until Silicone set up. No way they are ever coming off. The strut brackets are bolted to the plates from the under side before installing on the door. Added an angle bracket for more strength. Over 6yrs and still there. All doors done.

I wonder if they are still falling off the new ones.

Bill

[hitchup]

Even though it's old, it's nice to bring up occasionally, just in case the Search for a fix doesn't prove to be fruitful.

But we haven't had to do anything yet, to our 2006 (2 1/2 yrs) or the 2009 (over 3 yrs).

[terry and jo]

While this is not a fix for the screws coming loose, it does work to stabilize the two brackets so one isn't trying to pull to one side due to the tension from the closures.

While I couldn't picture in my mind what some of the rest of you were doing in the earlier part of the thread, I turned to this idea just as a way to stop the flexing on the L-bracket.

Sorry that the one picture is fuzzy, but you can still get the idea of what I did. Basically, I used an all-thread bolt about 42" long and then used washers and nuts on both sides of each of the brackets. (I did have to drill the holes in the bracket though.)

With each "L" of the bracket directed towards the center of the door, the all-thread makes each one help stabilize the other against the forces of the closures wanting to skew either into or out from the center.

[Gemstone]

I can see where that threaded rod would tend to stabilize the twisting of the brackets, I think that is worth adding to my door, thanks for posting. By the way, you have an example of the newer type of basement door, where the "plate" is buried within the door. The screws anchoring the gas strut attachment reach this plate inside the door. On older models, the "plate" was affixed to the skin of the door, where the gas strut attachment was pop riveted/glued...you can see the poor DRV engineering I mentioned.

This is how I repaired my older style door (note the old twisted thin aluminum plate attached to the plastic surface of the door): Basement door (https://picasaweb.google.com/114237881717750663452/RVCargoDoor?authkey=Gv1sRgCIOG9_qEs8XK1AE)
All of those screws in the plate have zero holding power, there is nothing inside my door but 1/8" of a plywood substrate and a styrofoam core...they were only used to secure the plate while the glue cured.

Regards
Gemstone

[terry and jo]

Thanks for posting a link to your photos. That helps me a lot in seeing in my mind's eye what everyone may have been working with in the way of brackets.

While my rod has helped, it still doesn't stop the screws from getting loose. If you notice in the one photo, all three on the one side are loose. So, I may need to get slightly longer screws and add lock-washers or change out the bracket entirely.

I can picture a good fix in my mind, but I don't have an arc welder anymore. But then, I'd probably not be too steady with the welding either.

Oddly enough, the only door where the bracket is loosening and skewing out of place is the large door on the door side of the coach. The road-side door and front door don't seem to have any issues. But, I watch them anyway.

Terry

[Gemstone]

"Oddly enough"...yep, chalk that up to poor engineering. That door is the most frequently used, the largest and is just too heavy to be using that style of door/attachment method. IMO, doors that hinge on the ends, like a "french" door or a door with motor home type hardware would be a much better engineering solution.....

I haven't seen a new rig for years, how has DRV improved the workings of this door ?

Regards
Gemstone

[rotaxman]

What gemstone said that's a pretty good idea Terry and Jo I think I will also incorporate that into the doors on my junk 09.

Jerry

[Motor31]

The rod is a neat idea for bracing, thanks.

Wait until you get the next in line for basement door failures. The hinge pop rivets will start to fail. It tends to go like a zipper effect. If you see a couple starting to get loose drill them out and replace ASAP or the zipper will start to open one time you raise the door. It becomes very unwieldy with the lift rods attached and also takes about 5 hands to hold the door, remove the rods hen start to replace the rivets with new ones or screws. Yup I know about that one........

[rotaxman]

Yep Mike my 06 did that but I caught it when it first started and repaired it. Didn't have anymore trouble with it after that. I think I drilled all of the rivets out and replace them with one size larger.

Jerry

[terry and jo]

OK, you Guys.

Now I have to start watching rivets. While I've had all kinds of tools in my life, both while on the farm and professional driving, I've never owned anything with which to put in rivets.

On the farm, we used rivets to attach sickle blades to our combine header, but with that, one used a tool especially made for installing sickle rivets.

So, what do you all recommend for a rivet gun and sizes of rivets?

Oh, and while I'm thinking of it, I think the all-thread that I used was the 5/16 inch one. I could have used 1/4 inch, but it seemed more flimsy. One thing about drilling the hinge bracket, it was pretty darn hard steel. Either that or my drill bit needs to be sharpened or replaced. Even with my 1/2" drill, it took some doing to get them drilled.

Terry

[rotaxman]

Terry,

Sorry to get you thinking about more stuff to break but its good to know in advance so you can catch it before it gets out of hand.

You can go to any big box store hardware store or tool store and buy a pop rivet gun. They have a screw on nose that will allow you to use different size rivets. The spare nose attachments screw into the handle so you can change the nose to what ever size rivet you need.

You can also buy an assortment of different size rivets a pop rivet gun is a very handy tool to have around.

As always good camping
Jerry

[Motor31]

Removing the rivet is easy. Just get a drill bit that is only slightly larger than the hollow part of the rivet head. All you want to do is drill away the part of the rivet that connects the hollow shaft to the head. The head will "crawl" up the drill bit when you have done that. It takes a light touch. Do not drill all the way through the hole in the rest of the fitting. Then just push the shaft of the rivet inside the door and put another one in it's place. You can find the rivet gun and rivets in any hardware store. You want a rivet that is able to fit in the hole but not sloppy when not expanded. If there is a very slight friction inserting it that's great. Then squeeze the rivet gun handle to expand the rivet and pop out the center pole. Make sure the two pieces of material to be joined are touching. Any gap in between them will weaken the bond and cause the rivet to fail.