MS floor problem

[The Spices]

We have a problem with our new MS. The plywood floor panels are flexing, causing floor squeaks and the linoleum to buckle along the long side of the panels. Has anyone else had this problem and, if so, how was it resolved.
Thanks

[missourijan]

Do you mean buckling along the side walls? I would immediately call or email the factory.

[Motor31]

You have a 2010 rig so you really need to hammer on the warranty folks about this. I don't know how close you are to the factory or dealer you bought from but that is a serious issue and needs to be handled under the warranty.

[The Spices]

Thanks folks. The unit is now at Indiana Interstate (Paul Cross). The frame lost its camber. Lippert is repairing after which, the floor will be repaired, new linoleum installed, etc. Thus far DRV has been good. We'll see what the end result is!

The Spices

[Gemstone]

" The frame lost its camber".....I'm curious about what caused this condition....what did the say ?

Regards
Gemstone

[sr]

Its in good hands with Interstate. They do good work and stand behind it.

[bstark]

Gemstone: I'm equally confused. I thought frame rails should be absolutely parallel side to side and if we're talking end to end instead why is camber needed there. Flat would be my understanding of correct for flooring.

If the two frame rails have lost parallel conditon with each other, wouldn't that be a result of those cross stringers becoming detached at their bottom edges? Whew, big job.

[berghild]

our floor has been torn up since day one..tech at walnut ridge thought he fixed it....wrong! i don't know why we didn't call factory or our service guy in vegas didn't.someday i hope we get it fixed . i would really like new flooring. My friend had the same problem and took it to the factory and they didn't fix it...gave him some piece of wood or something for it to ride over...and he was still in warranty. that was last year ...now we are a year out of warranty.

[The Spices]

We had Paul Cross do the work on our 2010 MS. Lippert came in to Paul's shop and restored the camber to the frame, then welded steel plates on the inside of the frame. Paul's crew removed the island and old linoleum. They repaired the floor and installed new floor tile. Paul and his crew do excellent work and I would not hesitate to recommend them. Time will tell whether the frame repair holds up! Paul said that it should and I trust his judgement.

[Gemstone]

It is good that the issue has been repaired, lets hope it is permanent.

But the question is:

What caused it ? What did Lippert and or Paul have to say ? Did they comment on seeing other rigs with the same problem ?
Was it lack of engineering design on Lippert's part ? Over-stressing the frame by the added DRV components ?

Regards
Gemstone

[JOHN EVANS]

2 Thumbs up for Paul and his crew. They are the only repair faculity i trust.We have a up coming appointment to replace a window and other small items that i thought were repaired by the dealer that we bought from.

[RonS]

X2 what gemstone said

[The Spices]

What caused it ? What did Lippert and or Paul have to say ?

The best answer that I have gotten is that it probably occured as a result of the brackets for the suspension being welded on by Lippert and the frame not being secured and/or supported as it should have been.

Did they comment on seeing other rigs with the same problem ?

Apparently there have been other Mobile Suites with this same problem. I have no idea how wide spread the problem is. Hopefully it is rare!?

Was it lack of engineering design on Lippert's part ? Over-stressing the frame by the added DRV components ?

?? - As far as I know, the cause is as stated above. I am not aware of any other contributing factors.

[Gemstone]

Thanks for the info....would you mind posting the 4 digit serial number painted on your pin box ? This would alert others in the same number range to at least be aware that a potential problem may exist with their rig.

Regards
Gemstone

[Huck]

What caused it ?
After welding their is stress in the frame.
Apparently the stress is shifting on some units.
Have you ever seen a cookie sheet or a pie pan pop/twist when it is in the oven?
That must be what is happening to the suite frames. And they are not popping back into shape.
Lippert needs to either thermally or vibratory stress relieve the frames while in the manufacturing prossess to correct the problem.
There engineers should, but might not know this.

[bstark]

Lippert probably knows of the "vibratory stress relief" system but think we are obligated to provide it by driving them over the roads!

I'm still wondering about this "camber" thing though. Side to side - front to rear? Which is it and is it an angle equation or parallel and if it's the frame rails losing their relationship of parallel to each other, why the heck call it camber?

If, however, our trailers are built with a camber or 'hump' to the frame such as those flat-deck equipment haulers. How does any welding done to the undersides of the frame for the attachment points of the hangers change the relationship of one of those rectangular tubes to the other throughout it's length.

I can see this being a problem if they simply supported the bottom tube at it's ends and then welded the next tube onto it thereby making a "droop" in the middle permanent. But again, why call it CAMBER when the more accurate descriptor would be ARC?

[chevman]

If the camber is front to back as I think I read this would mean the side walls would have to be made with the same camber to match the frame.
this is a question not an answer.
chevman

[rotaxman]

Hey Guys

I'm stuck with one of those wonderful DRV lost camber frames on my new 09.

It is my understanding from a very good source that Lippert builds the frame with camber in them. I believe this camber is arch as Bruce mentioned I'm like him camber does not sound like the correct term for the problem.

My source tells me that DRV orders their frames with zero camber or arch.

He says that it is much easier for DRV to put the walls on the frame if it is flat he also says that DRV needs to get their frames with the camber built in and pull them down when the set the walls.

He went on to say that DRV does not want to be bothered with the extra work that it would entail to pull the frames down. Typical DRV why do the job right when you can do it wrong take every short cut you can to increase the bottom line.

I do understand getting the biggest bottom line you can but not at the expense of losing customers.

I took the front closet apart yesterday to get rid of that useless shoe rack and to modify it to be like my 06 36TK3's closet. Found that there was no insulation under the floor of the closet or in the front cap above the closet. There is no doubt in my mind that this trailer was a hurry up job to make quota.

Didn't mean to hi jack the thread I believe the camber problem is arching of the frame. When Lippert made the repair in my driveway they jacked the trailer up at the rear end until all 4 wheels were off the ground then welded in 7 steel plates that were a quarter inch think 10 inches wide and 2 foot long on the curb side of the frame. On the street side they welded in a half inch thick 4 inch wide 10 foot long piece of steel. These plates were all welded to the inside of the frame. I was not real happy with this as I'm sure it has cut down my useful load considerable and as you all know the DRV line is short to start out with on cargo carrying capacity.

It would appear to me by the fix that the frame must sag in front of the axles and behind the axles. I would think that by jacking from the rear end and letting the wheels hang off the ground that it would be pulling the center of the frame downward. Just my thoughts may be totally wrong.

I hope this shed some light on the frame camber issue.

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry

[bstark]

Jerry; sorry to hear of your new rig's problem. Thanks for clearing up the mystery of the "lost camber"! What a stupid way to make a common old sagging frame sound scientific. It sounds like they're trying to make these things into some sophisticated wonder that requires careful calculations while in the build process therefore making a screw-up more understandable.

Having to support the trailer at it's extreme ends to allow it to sag in the middle and then weld plates along the inside of the frame to keep it that way is a testament to how crappy it was put together in the first place.

Consider what they are admitting when suggesting this: "yep, that frame is drooping at the ends which means that 1/ the stacked rectangular frame sections we've been bally-hooing as the strongest in the industry, well, maybe they're not. 2/ the welding of those sections was done in-correctly by Lippert while the frame was supported incorrectly and they inadvertently welded it with drooping ends. 3/ We failed to properly inspect the frame upon it's delivery to the factory and should have detected this problem by either identifying the already existing "droop" or the sporadic weldment pattern that would allow it to do so."

You are very correct about losing considerable carrying capacity by having to weld plates to "freeze" the flexing of that frame. That one plate that is 1/2" by 4" by a full ten feet long is a pretty heavy chunk of steel!

The next thing we'll be reading here is Lippert suggesting people show up to have this repair done with full tanks and a pet elephant aboard to help create more sag in the middle when the ends are jacked up!

I've been hoping for some time that "Quality Control" would come to the RV industry but seems unlikely to ever happen given these problems keep re-curring over and over again.

[rotaxman]

Bruce,

I agree with everything you said there is no quality control in place at Lippert or DRV.

Another thing that pretty much ticks me off is that this frame problem has been going on for at least two years that I know of maybe even three.

I think that it is about time that someone maybe me makes these two five and dime store run company's accountable for their actions.

In the first place when DRV received the first report of this frame problem production should have been suspended until the problem was corrected. DRV should have went to Lippert and explained to them that they were not going to allow Lippert to give their company a bad name. And that if they wanted to continue getting DRV's business they had better get the problem rectified quickly. But DRV didn't they just kept up production. Not acceptable for a stand up company.

There are other frame builders so not being able to get frames is not a valid excuse. Youngs in Chanute Ks is one. They used to be the exclusive builder of NuWa's frames. It would appear that NuWa has got the bottom line itis as now some hitchhikers come with Lippert frames. Young has a reputation of building one of the best frames in the industry I wish my trailer had a Young frame under it.

In the second place Lippert knows of this frame problem because they have several repair teams traveling all around the United States fixing well not really fixing( there is only one way to fix these frames destroy them) but making a patch on said frames. It is clear that Lippert also has no quality control in place. They also decided to ignore the problem again not acceptable for a stand up company.

There shouldn't have to be a major accident with anyone injured or even worse yet killed because these two half ass run company's are more interested in making money than producing a quality product. I feel that these frames are a very serious safety issue.

You know just as well as everyone else that the frame is the foundation of a good trailer and if you have a frame like mine and some of the others have you don't have a very good trailer.

The verdict is not in as to what I may do but I am very dissatisfied with my unit. I have a ton of money tied up in this crappy unit. I think the only thing that will satisfy me is to have Lippert or DRV don't care which buy me another trailer.

I truly hope that there are not many of these frames out there but I'm sure there are more and no telling how many there are that the owners are not aware they have a problem.

There were many, many short cuts taken on this trailer I currently own. There was insulation missing on the curb side of the rear cap and no insulation under the front closet floor or in the front cap above the closet ceiling. I have found many other short comings to many to list. Thanks to the brilliant management of DRV and their innovative idea to have a quota based assembly line.

I guess time will tell whats going to happen with my unit. I'm still waiting for a reply from Tom Peck about extending the warranty on my trailer and its junk frame. I will have to start that process again next week.

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry

[berghild]

i was wondering if there was no insulation in the front cap....my closet heats up the whole bedroom if i leave the door open. \
the roof leaked at every seam until we put that tape over every seam we would stop one leak and another one would pop up. . it looks terrible up there but it doesn't leak.
another seam on the rear curbside leaked too but we stopped it right away.
our friends have the same unit but is a MS 2005...they have the bedroom slide problem. that makes l4 years with same problem.
we would be lost without the help that we get on the forum.

cyndy

[rotaxman]

Hey all

Heard back from Tom Peck of DRV today he said that Lippert has agreed to extend my frame warranty by two years.

I feel that I still need more trailer warranty as I still have concerns about the repair and what other damage may have already been done to the trailer before this problem was discovered.

I expect to hear back from Tom sometime in the next several days.

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry

[berghild]

my post earlier should have read 5 years with this problem.

i know i have the info somewhere...but how long is the warranty on the frame?

i should know this stuff before i call on monday. to see if DRV is going to take care of this ...and will that super duper warranty take care of it..i have that contract handy and it covers slides so i guess it would cover the work that has to be done to make the slides work.
I hate to give up any carrying capacity...full-timing I like my stuff, but over the years I am learning how to do less. I think I am doing a lot better than I used to.

[BillA]

Rotaxman,

FYI steel weighs 490 lbs/cubic foot. Based on the dimensions of steel plate you gave above, 187# was added to your empty wt.

[rotaxman]

Ann and Bill

Thanks for the info I figured that there was a formula for calculating that just hadn't got around to looking for it.

Thanks again for the info I'm going to weight the trailer Sunday. I wanted to weight it before I started putting our stuff in out of the 06 but got distracted with the frame camber and didn't get it done.

My 06 weighed 15100 right of the lot and 18500 when we went on the road in 07. I fear that I will need to get a bigger truck when I weigh this one. Might be cheaper to get a different trailer.

Thanks again

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry

[rotaxman]

Cyndy,

I might be mistaken but I think the frame warranty is 5 years call Tom Peck at DRV he can tell you how much warranty the frame has.

As always good camping

Joyce and Jerry