Kitchen sink

[suitediver]

Anyone have a problem with the kitchen sink falling in?

I was shocked when I opened the door and noticed the sink had fallen in. It was only held up by glue and that had let loose sometime during the trip from CW to campground, 30 or so miles on freeway.

Our unit ,07 RS3 will be a year old on March 29.

Bobbie

[ponch]

Bobbie

Yes it has happened before.

If you will do a search here on 5th wheels you will find it.

Ponch

[AlwaysHomeNow]

Wow! What a bummer! :o

We've been living in ours since July '05. I never thought to look at that. When I told the DH, he wasn't surprised - said the Corvette quarter panels are glued on too.

I hope the repair stage goes well for you.

[maltruck8]

We were sitting watching tv a couple of nights ago, heard a noise, it was the kitchen sink falling. I called DT and was told that warranty is gone. They said that they would send a tube of the glue though. Because the original glue failed, we decided to go to Lowes and get a tube of construction glue. I cut 1"x4" to stand under each corner, until the glue cures. It took us about 1hour to re glue it. The boards will come out this afternoon, after sitting for more than 24hrs. We will see if it worked.

[Motor31]

Those doing the repairs please let us know how it worked out and what you used to do it with.

[maltruck8]

We just finished removing the 1x4 braces and trying to push the sink down to check the glue. It appears to be fixed. I couldn't push it loose with my 255 lbs. Maybe it will hold a little longer than when DT did it. What we used for glue is; PL polyurethane premium construction adhesive that I purchased from Lowes. Our sink is the stainless steel. I ask in Lowes what to use and followed her suggestions.

[MooseSuite]

Just a few things:
check on the 08 suites as DD reinforced them on their mobiles. I reinforced ours when I did the repair adding bottom supports.
Ensure you have a good seal of silicone to prevent water entry.
I store the sink covers when towing. Just to be safe.

[suitediver]

The sink is back in place. DH put 2 supports running the width of the island, screwed in at both ends, has now added the caulking. Will give it a try after it sets over night.

Bobbie

[RodeWorthy]

This problem kind of got shuffled too low on of my things to do list. I intended to reinforce the undermounted sink before it fell off the counter top. Too late. Last night it just fell in while DW was doing the dishes. Must have been a heavy meal:)

Anyone have anything new to add about the repairs? I wonder how hard it will be to remove construction adhesive if we ever have to service/replace the sink?

I would appreciate detailed information on how reinforcements were done. We are in Roswell, NM - a good place to get repair stuff. This trip seems to be all about repairs though.

[billr]

Don,

I use clear silicone as suggested by Plumber friend. Did a fine job here in the house on Kit and bath under counter sinks. I could stand in them and they will go nowhere.

You can add a below stand to hold them secure while it drys 24hrs. Leave it there or not. Up to you.

Bill

[Diesel-Gypsy]

Ditto on the silicone with the prop stick for 24 hours.

Good luck Don.

Rick

[Red Ram]

Mine fell in when I left a 24 can carton of soda on the lid. After resealing the sink, I fabricated two angle iron brackets and screwed them to the center area of the sink. It was the only place that I could get to some solid wood and scrw the scews in. Been a year now and still holding. We also store the lids while traveling.

[RodeWorthy]

Thanks for the information re the repair and reinforcement of the sink.

Tom Peck will send me a two part epoxy which is an upgrade to what they used previously. As suggested by maltruck8 I did buy a tube of PL Poly Construction Adhesive. Also bought some lumber to make the supports for the drying process. I think I will wait for the epoxy to arrive. We will be settled in Benson in a few days.

That is if I can fix my dining slide which seems to have sheared a bolt tonight. It is stuck part way out and it is near freezing here in Las Cruces. I need to find out where to cut into the belly in order to do the necesarry surgery to replace the pin. I hope I have diagnosed this correctly. One side wants to come in but the other (near the door) will not budge. We are in a mess here tonight.

The sink covers are stored at home but I like the idea of reinforcement support under there. Thanks for the ideas.

[billr]

Don,

Too bad on the slide deal, you nailed it though. You have a sheared pin. It is at the fwd end of the slide. Open the belly up just at the aft corner of where the steps are towards the front tire. You will see the shaft in there and where the broken bolt is at. You may need to have Stella bump the slide sw to get it lined up again and pop out the rest of the broken pin. Just get a 1/4 SS bolt and you'll be back in business. Or any bolt you have that fits for now just to get going.

I had to move that slide in and out a few times by hand with the assist of the hyd when mine sheared to get set up and back on the road. It is possible if you have to get moving.


I think the epoxy on the sink they use is what causes the problem. Its too brittle and cracks and shears after a while on the road. Silicone never hardens and stays flexible but strong. Home depot and your set!

Bill

[RodeWorthy]

Bill thanks for the info.

According to Greg at DRV the belly material is scored for a cutout at the location of the shaft and pin. I also have your location to work with. It is cold here this morning but not freezing. I dug out the coveralls - should have brought the insulated ones :) Hopefully we do not have a broken gear or missing teeth on the rack. I can't get that end of the slide moving even with the help of the hydraulic. That may be an indication of additional problem. Will know soon enough and I will post the result.

For the record, the material originally used on my sink was a mastic material (white in color) that simply got to dry to hold on. It peeled off like a piece of tape. The epoxy that is being sent is supposed to be an improvement. As in all epoxys it is a two part product that is mixed as it is dispensed. I have not heard of this problem happening on any of the newer units (post 2008) but maybe too soon for that. I will make the decision after the slide is operational to go ahead with the sink repair with material on hand or wait for the epoxy. The DW factor may come into play here. Not happy without her sink.

[RGordon]

For those of you that think you have the solution by applying silicone will result in failure once again at some given time. I applied wooden braces underneath the sink and applied clear silicone around the top edges of the sink so water would not penetrate. Silicone will break down in matter of time turning loose. That is why it is not recommended to use on RV's. This is just my opinion and experiences in the past.

[Motor31]

I thought they were just using the silicone as a sealant rather than the primary adhesive. I could be wrong but that's what I intend to do when my sink drops. I hope that won't be for quite a while though. (crossing everything I have 2 or more of)

[bstark]

Don; you're getting it up the waazoo this trip but take heart every one of us has had a trip like yours! My tip; clean the underside of the counter material thoroughly of all old material and use some alcohol. I'd use a little rotary tool with a sanding disc to give whatever adhesive you choose to use a good virgin surface to grab onto. You're going to be familiar with the process due to your nautical experience.

On the broken shear pin thingy, a ratchet strap hooked into the hole in the frame the rack runs in maight ease the closing of the slidout and the same ratchet strap hooked to the motorhome next door might get it open the rest of the way for you too! Ooooops!

Oh by the way it's 72 degrees here in Lakeland Florida - - Now that was nassssty!

Question: - if a boat is a hole in the water you throw money into, what are these things? Haaar!

[RodeWorthy]

I could not wait any longer for the sink repair kit to arrive from DRV so I went ahead and used the PL adhesive recommended in any earlier post. To be fair to DRV my call was the day before Thanksgiving and my shipping information went to Tom Peck at the old ligatel email address. I have noted Brenda's post that shows he now has a drvsuites.com email address. Louisville show was also on their minds.

The attached picture shows the method I used to secure the sink while the adhesive dries. It was also very useful in aligning the sink and holding it in position while I applied the goop. The adhesive was easy to work with and cleaned up well. I will follow up with a bead of silicone as a sealant. While I had the opportunity I completely removed the sink and did a thorough cleaning of the sink and prepared the mounting surface as Bruce suggested. Also took advantage of the opportunity to clean out the calcium chips and debris from the check valve in the kitchen faucet outlet fitting. In fact, I decided to remove the check valve entirely. Good flow there now.

As a side note, the slide problem was a broken bolt in the crossshaft and I got that repaired. Thanks to Bill for the correct spot to make the incision in the belly. Surgery is complete and I have resealed that area too. Bruce, there was no need to connect to the motorhome next door :) I was lucky enough to get the hole lined up with a couple of bumps of the switch by Stella. I also found an adjustable wrench on the square tubing is useful to help with the alignment.

[golf_bears]

RodeWorthy

What a great looking fix!!! Great job!!!

Where are you hiding out now?

We’re on I40 in AR heading west towards AZ. This section of I40 is really rough and I figure our kitchen sink is going to drop out at any time now.

If I knew where you were at, I could drop by and get some needed first hand education on how to reinstall it correctly????? LOL!!!

Again, great job!

Take care and drive safe.

[bstark]

Don; now that idea of top clamping the sink through the strainer basket holes is simply the best thing I've seen in a while. Great approach, gonna remember that little detail.

Once you get done with that job you'll have time to go up and remove the A/C covers to blow the crap out of the coils and get rid of the colonies of those da** asian beetles that resemble lady-bugs! Mine were both chock full of those nasty critters. I didn't find much crud in the cooler coils but the condenser fins were full of Arizona desert dust. So quit lollygagging and get up there and get to work! Haaar!

O.K. I have to come clean here and admit the only reason I went up there was to clean out a mud-dauber nest that had created an out-of-balance condition on the fan of the front A/C.

[RodeWorthy]

Hi Golf_Bears,
Thanks for the comments. Currently we are at Saguaro SKP Co-Op in Benson, AZ. We will be here most of December. Not sure of your destination in AZ but if you are in the area come on by.

We dropped down to DeQueen, AR from Branson. Interesting drive through there. We crossed into OK on Hwy 70 and onto 82 in TX after a stop at Eisenhower SP at Denison. Used 380 to come across New Mexico - beautiful road but somebody had a death wish there and ran us off the road. Good thing there were wide paved shoulders. Absolutely beautiful ride through Ruidoso and Mescalero on the way down to Las Cruces. As you can tell we are avoiding Interstates. We are slow anyway so it doesn't matter.

If you are staying on I40 and will be stopping anywhere near Amarillo there are some great deals there on a 3-day stopover with free laundry! Let me know if you need more info - I will look it up.

Safe travels!

[RodeWorthy]

Now Bruce. You don't think I have had enough troubles this trip that I have to go looking for trouble? LOL! Good point on the A/C units though. We definitely have a few Ladys hitchhiking with us. They must be clustered somewhere. The only use for the A/C on this trip so far is for the heat pumps. That 72 in Lakekland sounds great. Temps nice here too -- in the daytime :(

Case in point on the troubles -- the Propane/CO detector has been giving me fits. On 3 occasions (always about 2:30 AM) that thing has been going off indicating a propane gas detection. I shut the propane off just to be sure but it still kept alarming. It must have been detecting something because when I opened the door to let in fresh air it resets. Don't like to argue with my instruments but I have to believe there is something wrong with it. I couldn't stand it any longer so it came out last night. Anybody know how long the warranty is on these things?

To put a finish on the sink thing the parcel arrived from DRV but it did not contain the new epoxy adhesive. It was the original Sikaflex - 252 Elastic Adhesive. Not good for this application. Elastic Adhesive is a good description for this product. When the sink drops the material can be stripped off like one big elastic band. Don't use this stuff to repair the sink.

Thanks for your comments on the jig. It did work out well and was cheap and easy to do. That's me, cheap and easy :)

[billr]

Nice work Don! Now on the road again eh?

[maltruck8]

Has been over a year and a half and the sink is still holding. Hope you guys keep posting your fixes to these problems so I can fix mine.

[Huck]

Case in point on the troubles -- the Propane/CO detector has been giving me fits. On 3 occasions (always about 2:30 AM) that thing has been going off indicating a propane gas detection. I shut the propane off just to be sure but it still kept alarming. It must have been detecting something because when I opened the door to let in fresh air it resets. Don't like to argue with my instruments but I have to believe there is something wrong with it. I couldn't stand it any longer so it came out last night. Anybody know how long the warranty is on these things?

RodeWorthy

I had this same exact thing happen two times in my suite.

The first time I had a heck of a time figuring out what was wrong. The first couple nights I thought the propane detector was bad then about the third night the Carbon Monoxide detector went off too.

Turns out, both times I had a bad battery.

The batteries must get a short in them and start boiling.
I would check the battery/s and see if one of them feels hot or very warm.

I never would have thought that the fumes could get from the vented battery compartment into the living area.

I hope this helps you....

[Motor31]

I had the propane detector go bad on our unit. Random alerts and full batteries. I sent it back to the company as per their instructions when I contacted them. They tested it and sent a replacement under warranty since it was out of specs on sensitivity. It went out during the summer so propane furnace use was out of the question.

There is a service life expectancy on these things, I believe 5 years is the norm, I could be wrong on that time frame though. At the time I sent it in (over a year now) the price for a replacement unit was $70.00 if I had needed to purchase one.

[billr]

We also had the same issues with the propane detector a year ago. I finally pulled it out and the MFG date was 2000 and the trailer is a 2005. They put a 5yr old unit in my new trailer. I called Tom Peck and he was interested in getting it back. They sent me a new one.
No issues since. There is something to the 5 yr thing I think.

Bill

[RodeWorthy]

Hmmm...... gasssing batteries? Now there could be something to that. We have four 6-Volt batteries with the extra compartment built into the basement. I did a lot of rewiring in there this past summer during the installation of the solar system. Sealed up openings well but there is one area I did not because I want to modify it to install a main battery disconnect. Need to look at that.

No doubt my batteries have been active because I am experimenting with relying on the solar for most of the charging. We use around 100 AH a day and the batteries charge during the day. Most of the problem I have had with the propane detector have been at night when not charging. This is not a low voltage condition. My instruments tell me the lowest voltage I saw the night the latest failure occurred was 12.2VDC. The documentation says the instrument will work down to 7 VDC.

There is a large hole where the detector wiring feeds into the bottom step area. No doubt it is open to the basement area but sealing that hole would make that compartment pretty tight. But any fumes getting to the unit would come by the front, not inside the step area.

The meter is probably sensitive to trace elements of propane gas so is it possible we would not smell these? There are other types of gas that also affect the sensors. Who knows. We have been tightly closed up at night because it has been cold. But the bottom line is the alarm clears when exposed to fresh air. That leads me to believe the instrument is acting as intended.

I reinstalled the alarm today and it went through its sensor cleaning stage (blinking green light) and then went to normal operation. A subsequent test shows the alarm memory is clear.

If it alarms again I will contact MIT Industries directly. The mfg date of the alarm is May 2007 consistent with the mfg date of our trailer. We are a bit early for the 5-year required replacement but if it has to be it has to be. Maybe I can get lucky and get the same results as Bill and Mike.

Thanks for reporting your eperiences with the alarm.

[Huck]

When my batteries were bad I still had very good voltage.

I too, didn't have a problem in the day time.

[RodeWorthy]

For those of you who may face this job in the future I have one more comment on the sink repair and I will leave it alone.

I used PL Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive (Home Depot) to reattach the sink to the underside of the counter top. This seems to be an excellent product for the job. I never did receive the new epoxy adhesive from DRV - they sent the original elastic adhesive.

If you use the PL adhesive let it cure for several days before applying silicone sealant around the rim. I waited two days before doing this and I got some air bubbles coming into the bottom of the silicone bead. I presume this was from the adhesive still going through its curing process. I was able to smooth out the bubbles but it does not make for as nice a job. Trying to apply a nice even bead of sealant is not high on my skill set list in the first place but I had it looking pretty good. It was disappointing to have to 'play' with it after it began to set.

[Bill40]

Don I really like your top clamp, I used my bottle jack and a board to hold mine in place. I used the glue and four sink clips I purched at Lowes. Your clamps sure give more room to work under the sink.

[RodeWorthy]

Hi Bill40,
Thanks for the comment and welcome to posting on Fifth Wheel Forum. Good to hear from new posters anytime. Interesting to learn that this same problem is occuring in other brands too.

Safe Travels and Happy Camping.